Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

@ BWX

That sounds like a crappy time

As far as your clutch though.... Isn't the point that you were stuck with very little traction?

Not saying LFS's doesn't have problems with starts ( I think racing/driving is fine, and not sure how to rectifiy the starting issue ), but how long do you think that clutch would've lasted if you were rocking back & forth slipping the clutch for hours on pavement instead of snow?

Yeah it was a crappy time, LOL.

About the pavement/snow issue.. yeah it was defiantly slippery, but I got enough traction to rock the car back and forth every time- for hours- and make the clutch very hot and stink really bad, and it never slipped or lost the ability to drive the car.

I imagine I would never do the same thing on dry pavement, the car would just go, and the clutch would not get hot. That is kinda point though I guess, one or two clutch slipping exercises in LFS will make a clutch feel like it is a totally worn out and slipping clutch until it cools down.. It just seems way overkill- a little heat doesn't instantly make a clutch unusable does it?

Oh well, hopefully they will do some testing and make it a little more robust. It seems fine from the normal driving and shifting point of view, but maybe it is still a little sensitive if abused while driving too. I haven't really tested that yet.

Quote from BWX232 :

Yeah it was a crappy time, LOL.

About the pavement/snow issue.. yeah it was defiantly slippery, but I got enough traction to rock the car back and forth every time- for hours- and make the clutch very hot and stink really bad.

I imagine I would never do the same thing on dry pavement, the car would just go, and the clutch would not get hot. That is kinda point though I guess, one or two clutch slipping exercises in LFS will make a clutch feel like it is a totally worn out and slipping clutch until it cools down.. It just seems way overkill- a little heat doesn't instantly make a clutch unusable does it?

Oh well, hopefully they will do some testing and make it a little more robust. It seems fine from the normal driving and shifting point of view, but maybe it is still a little sensitive if abused while driving too. I haven't really tested that yet.

Any replay?

I still don't find clutch to over heat in two starts, no matter how I do it, if I try to use RPM that I use IRL it mostly stalls or then goes with very little heat on clutch. 2-3k and slipping clutch of course heat it bit more, but who makes such starts IRL?
It is lot less RPM that we use IRL or much faster clutch release when we use such lot of RPM.

Might be that curve which is RPM/heating could be adjusted too, at higher rpm I don't think there is much of complaining about temp, mid range (2-4k) is perhaps bit much? I have used only XRG for testing and DFP brake pedal

Quote from JTbo :

Any replay?

I still don't find clutch to over heat in two starts, no matter how I do it, if I try to use RPM that I use IRL it mostly stalls or then goes with very little heat on clutch. 2-3k and slipping clutch of course heat it bit more, but who makes such starts IRL?
It is lot less RPM that we use IRL or much faster clutch release when we use such lot of RPM.

Might be that curve which is RPM/heating could be adjusted too, at higher rpm I don't think there is much of complaining about temp, mid range (2-4k) is perhaps bit much? I have used only XRG for testing and DFP brake pedal

Nah I did not save any replays.. You can easily do it though- just start off with moderate RPM and deliberately slip the clutch, it will get hot and by the time the red clutch bar goes to half way it will lose the ability to clamp. It only takes a very short time if you are just trying to do it.

I am not really as concerned about this as it may seem though, I imagine they are still working on it. I guess I could make a replay though, If I do I will post it here in this thread. I gotta say though, to be clear, I love the way the actual shifting while racing works so far.. it is 1000% better than before- and I have tested the new car only so far.

Just raced the LX4's with the x31 test patch and I think there is definately something wrong with the clutch in that car. 2 laps around the new SO track and the clutch is already slipping noticeably(sp?). I've got no problems with the TBO's or the FBM even though I'm driving them with the same (or far more) aggressive style I just did with the LX. It just seems that the clutch is too weak to handle the torque.

Yet to test the rest of the field..

I haven't tried the patch yet. But I can say that a road clutch can take ALOT of abuse..

My Corrado which has a rather torqey vr6, I abuse the hell out of the clutch during an autocross. The starts mainly, ~4000 rpm launches, not dropping the clutch, but slipping it out quickly. Never once have I smelled the clutch burn. Multiple hill starts too, never gets any heat in it worth noting.

A clutch should be able to handle the torque produced by the engine and then a decent amount more w/o a problem. So when the clutch is fully released, it shouldn't slip.

BTW, this is what it takes to burn a clutch.. I imagine these were already worn hence why they slipped in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Cef2p2B4k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1z_RUIGz3k

EDIT: On that note. If you really abuse it, the gear box will usually fail first (on an unsprung clutch). Sprung clutches are much more forgiving on the trans, but not as strong as an unsprung one.

LFS really needs transmission damage before clutch wear/damage. I mean launching with slick at redline on a stock trans will break it, or an axle.

One thing that is wrong with the clutch is that the clutch model doesn't model static and kinetic friction. (Tested with XRG, handbrake on on, full throttle, there is a static "slip point" that allows fast power engagement/disengagement with small clutch movement) When the clutch is fully released the plates are firmly together and static friction of coefficient applies as long as a point is reached when the input torque exceeds the static torque the clutch can handle. Just as the clutch plates start to slip the coefficient of friction drops about a third (this number is just a vague assumption on my part).

Basically it means that if you put 200Nm through a clutch and start trying to slip the clutch by pushing down the clutch pedal the clutch will start slip at point x. When you have that clutch slipping you need to release the clutch a lot more to get the clutch to "fully grip again".

Another question is, what kind of clutches are the LFS cars equipped with. Are the cars track tuned road legal cars or race prepped track only vehicles?

Material makes things different too It would be awesome if the cars had different clutch characteristics as well.