I've got a nice setup for the FOX, shipped with R1 tyres. After about 2 laps on Westhill the tyres are completely warmed up (both inside and outside). But i'm not sure the R1 tyres will last for as long as i want them to, so i simply replaced the R1 slicks with R2.

However, now the inside of the wheels stay cold (blue in the f9 menu) and only the outside gets hot (Hot on the outside as if you've done a burnout.) - even after 20 laps.


Im guessing it's a bad thing, so i am wondering whats the best solution? Push harder (kind of hard since im pretty much going as fast as i can already) or alter the setup? If so - how?

Or is the cold inside/hot outside a good thing?

ok, i'm pretty new to this so i'm probably wrong...

The R2 tyres may need different pressure settings to the R1 to get them to work well...

you know n F1 this year, when you see them making adjustments to the tyre pressures at the stops, in order to alter handling and wear rates....

my point is if you are using the R1 pressure sets on R2s, this could be your problem...i dont know how to fix it though...

If you let the pressure as it was with R1 tyres, you have to less the pressure so the tyres will have a better grip and the tyres will be heated better

Also excuse my bad English

Quote from felplacerad :

I've got a nice setup for the FOX, shipped with R1 tyres. After about 2 laps on Westhill the tyres are completely warmed up (both inside and outside). But i'm not sure the R1 tyres will last for as long as i want them to, so i simply replaced the R1 slicks with R2.

However, now the inside of the wheels stay cold (blue in the f9 menu) and only the outside gets hot (Hot on the outside as if you've done a burnout.) - even after 20 laps.


Im guessing it's a bad thing, so i am wondering whats the best solution? Push harder (kind of hard since im pretty much going as fast as i can already) or alter the setup? If so - how?

Or is the cold inside/hot outside a good thing?

No, I would say the other way round... But if you want them to last, tire warming should be even...
Try to adjust camber... If it's the rear tires and adjusting camber doesn't change anything, the wheel is probably lifted in the bends...

Please define "inside" and "outside".

Do you mean the tyre rubber patch, that has an inside, middle and outside part, or does "inside" refer to the tyre air temperature (the big, mostly blue to greenish blob)?

Because when you do an burnout, there is no special "outside" thing that gets hot, the whole rubber patch gets hot. Therefore I think you mean variant #2


Your problem is probably that you try to drive the R2's as fast as you do with R1. That makes them slide around alot more, heating them up much faster. If you push even harder, they'll just get hotter and hotter. Also, the "inner" part should probably be blueish, as it helps cooling the "outside" down. Though, one thing to keep in mind is that the more the rubber wears, the less hot it gets, so even if your tyres are a bit hot (reddish) after a few laps, they'll start to cool down again as the tyre tread gets thinner.

PS: Smoothing out your driving style also helps keeping temperatures down. Actually, it's one of the most important factors.

Changing tyre compounds would normally require quite a change of pressure (lower if you are using a harder compound) and possibly a slight alteration of camber as there won't be so much body roll now.

If its for a long race, try R1's with higher pressures. This reduces wear quite a lot - normally enough to run out of petrol before you run out of rubber. If that doesn't help, then go to R2's and try relatively low pressures and more negative camber.

thanks guys

What do you call a higher pressure?

Dont know how relevant this is, but it took me about 3 weeks before noticing that youve got the camber settings and the live camber settings. As soon as i noticed this my set ups got alot better as i wasnt simply putting camber figures in and drivin them i could see wat the live camber was. Thought this might be relvant as talking about tyres and changing set ups etc

OOo. Live camber? So the degree change you put in on the tyre isn't the same as the live camber? I need to investigate this . . .

Quote from Funnybear :

OOo. Live camber? So the degree change you put in on the tyre isn't the same as the live camber? I need to investigate this . . .

Nope. On high ride height sets you'll have lots positive camber when static camber is set to zero, whereas on low sets you'll already have some negative camber when static camber is zero.

In addition to that, as the car experiences lateral G in corners and the suspension compresses, (or even lifts on the inside of the corner) the live camber settings change. If you use the suspension analyser spreadsheets you can see the effect that different lateral G has on the camber and toe at different steering angles. This is very interesting and you can see that caster also influences steering angles. With these spreadsheets you can work out the ideal akerman angle for the steering too!

Loads of other setup help in there too for gearing and handling balance. Don't know how I set cars up before I had this tool.

Like every other driver: With sense and feel.
I thought about using the analyser, but it removes the magic from the setups. It's just "the best" * values everywhere and no more. That's why I make my setups without the analyser. I'm propably slower that way, but I don't think I need to be the fastest to have fun .

* Of course the setups out of the analyser aren't personalized, but the setting the analyser offers has this "It's mathematically correct, it hasto be good"-effect on it.

Vain

Vain - you've misunderstood me mate. - I use the anlayser as a graphical tool to anlayse setups. I don't use the default values that come with the analyser. I look at the best sets I have and it helps me understand why they feel the way they do. I am then able to transfer the setup across to other cars using the gui the spreadsheet provides to make this possible. Ofcourse there are always some differences that you have to take into account - track width, weight distribution.

But ofcourse, I test these setups on track also. In addtion a setup for a circuit with fast flowing corners requires different ackerman and damping to one with lost of slow corners. The spreadsheet is very helpful when adjusting sets for this.

Where can you get the suspension analysers and spread sheets from?

Quote from Vain :

Like every other driver: With sense and feel.
I thought about using the analyser, but it removes the magic from the setups. It's just "the best" * values everywhere and no more. That's why I make my setups without the analyser. I'm propably slower that way, but I don't think I need to be the fastest to have fun .

* Of course the setups out of the analyser aren't personalized, but the setting the analyser offers has this "It's mathematically correct, it hasto be good"-effect on it.

Vain

Just to correct you, the setup analyser spreadsheets dont give you the 'best' values, they dont propose any solution, they dont work out the mathematically perfect setup. There is no such thing.
All they do enable people to make comparative judgements about the effect of changes. You still have to know what you are doing to make any use of them, and you still have to know what effect you are trying to acheive. I'm not sure if you are talking about the same analyser to be honest, because the only place mine even begins to 'propose' a value for something is the critical damping values, and they are just really for guidance and comparison.

Of course, if people prefer to do there setups entirely through intuition, testing and telemetry I completely respect that, I just wanted to correct a misrepresentation of what the analyser actually does.

For anyone that wants them the analyser spreadsheets are over at the old RSC forum, in the 'Unofficial Add-ons' section, and there is also a table of S2 car values that you can paste in to get an approximate analyser for S2 cars, although there are greater innacuracies for S2 due to the new suspension modelling.

Colcob - you mentuioned telemetry. I have been looking for a tool to analyse hotlaps. Something that will give me a speed trace throughout the lap at the very least, but also some g figures would be good. Do you know if such a tool exists? It would help me improve my lap times I'm sure.

All I've seen so far is LFSStats and the like that give race analysis including splits. This info falls far short for what I want to use it for.

Nice one clown - I need that to get me round FE Gold a bit quicker before next Monday - Don't want to be last in quali again!

Trying this tool now but need some track meshes - only got the Blackwood ones included with it. Where can I get these from?

Done any running at FE yet?

Quote from Clownpaint :

..I was quite far ahead of the WR until the final corner..

Quite far ahead like 0.00000000000000000000000000000001s?

OK, I think I need some advice. I'm going to participate in a 30-lap race on Westhill tonight, and I'm using the FXR. So far I've mostly been practicing hotlaps, racing maybe 5 laps in a row. (best hotlap offline being 1:33,89) This morning however I did 10 laps, and I noticed that my front tires got ridiculously hot, even without sliding too much.

This was with R2-tyres. So I changed to R4 in front and kept the R2 at the rear, and that seemed to work temperature wise, keeping them all in the green region. But when I went to the pits I noticed that my front wheels got changed, meaning that they must have been more than 30% worn by then, which is not good..

I'd really like to learn more about what I can do to avoid tyres heating up too much and wearing too quickly. Does anyone have a few tips to what settings I should change to reduce wear and keep the temps down? And what pressures should I use for R2, R3 and R4 respectively?

Thanks!

Generally increased pressure reduces heat and wear but lessens grip, but not always.

For example, I did a 20 lap race in the XFR at Westhill, first I tried R3's but they just heated up way to much, I increased the tire pressure at the front but that had little to no effect, a little less grip, more movement and so more heat in the end.

R4's were the perfect choice, they never overheated and easily lasted the race. If you drive smoother you can reduce the heat by a lot but I don't think it has such a big effect on wear.

The R4's on the FXR will last the 30 laps. 10 laps and 30% worn, 20 laps, 60% and so 30 laps 90% worn, very rough I know.

You could adjust the cambers, normally less camber, to avoid wearing a particular part of the tire as well as spreading the heat over more of the tire. And softer suspension would help with wearing I think and heat. Also because the R4's are harder you can some times get away with lowering the pressures to try and gain some extra grip.

Thats pretty much everything I try when looking for longer lasting setup tweaks.

Quote from felplacerad :

I've got a nice setup for the FOX, shipped with R1 tyres. After about 2 laps on Westhill the tyres are completely warmed up (both inside and outside). But i'm not sure the R1 tyres will last for as long as i want them to, so i simply replaced the R1 slicks with R2.

However, now the inside of the wheels stay cold (blue in the f9 menu) and only the outside gets hot (Hot on the outside as if you've done a burnout.) - even after 20 laps.


Im guessing it's a bad thing, so i am wondering whats the best solution? Push harder (kind of hard since im pretty much going as fast as i can already) or alter the setup? If so - how?

Or is the cold inside/hot outside a good thing?

Try using more camber, -1 degree at time because you're problem seems like more of a camber problem. If you say the tyre temps on R1s are completely balanced, that means that yes, it is good but try and look at it in the way that because the compound is different because R1s are quite sensitive tyres so the tyre in general can build up heat easier than R2s but generally, a little pointer that I learnt in OWRL, never use R2s. Also, at a track like Westhill, tyre temperature shouldn't be much of an issue as there are long straights to give the tyres a chance to cool down.

In my opinion, more negative camber OR if you're willing to do it, decrease the pressure so that the insides are at optimum and outsides are a bit hot but really, there must be something very wrong with the camber on your setup because its new for me to hear that the inside is cool and the outside is warm. Generally, its the other way round.

EDIT: WOAH! this is an old post . Ah well

Gnomie - I suspect that your set sends quite a lot of torque to the front wheels (>33%). Try reducing the torque split, I run 20-25% and always keep my fronts and rears at the same temps (R2 or R3s all round). Remember this can have a large affect on how the car handles when applying power (if you are using something closer to the default 40% then it will remove all the understeer you get, which could make your set too oversteery if it was set up to counteract this understeer).

Thanks Garph and Bob! Sounds like reasonable advice, I'll play around with it and see.

Quote from Garph :

For example, I did a 20 lap race in the XFR at Westhill, first I tried R3's but they just heated up way to much, I increased the tire pressure at the front but that had little to no effect, a little less grip, more movement and so more heat in the end.

I tried increasing the pressure too, but I had the same experience as you. Sounds like you gain some, you lose some.