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American Justice
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#51 - SamH
Okay.. but I meant a relevent response to MY comment, since it was blahquoteblah'd.

I'm a Brit that lived in the US and paid tens of thousands in state and federal taxes. I paid nearly $40,000 in property tax in under 5 years as well. I never let my car tag expire, always had insurance and I was pissed as hell when my bank's ATM read
    but you can't blahdismissblah your way through what I say just because I'm not an American. That'd be laughable.
    Quote :but you can't blahdismissblah your way through what I say just because I'm not an American. That'd be laughable.

    I get your point now. I also agree Smile
    WOW !!!!!!!!!!

    I've never seen such an intelligent and literate conversation on this before.

    Regarding the media 'attacks' on Bush, These aren't aimed at his politics, only at him and remember that he has served his time.
    Your due for Hillary next ( & yes I'll put money on that Thumbs up) and don't expect her politics to be any different.

    There is some good US media but unfortunatly it gets buried in the CNN Fox drivel.

    Scooter Libby In Hell

    What do Dick Cheney, Paris Hilton, "The Sopranos" and colon spasms have in common? Find out here!

    By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
    Wednesday, July 4, 2007

    So there you have it. Bush shrugs and smirks and then commutes the easy soft-focus sit-on-your-ass-all-day-and-knit white-collar prison sentence of a hollow political lackey who, in turn, took a bullet for his sneering mafia thug of a boss, Dick Cheney, who in turn was complicit (along with lead flying monkey Karl Rove) in the appallingly illegal outing of a CIA operative, which itself was a tiny but particularly nasty link in the giant chain of lies and deceptions undertaken to lead our wary and tattered nation into an unwinnable impossible costly brutally violent war that will now last, if current estimates are correct, until the goddamn sun explodes.
    You have to laugh. You have to laugh because if you do not laugh you will likely be overcome by a mad desire to stab yourself in the eye with a sharp feral cat and/or shoot yourself in the toe with a high-powered staple gun, over and over again, all while tearing out pages of the United States Constitution and crumpling them into tiny little balls and hurling them into the smoldering firepit of who-the-hell-cares as you shiver in the corner and swig from a bottle of Knob Creek and wail at the moon. Or maybe that's just me.
    But really, you do have to laugh at the vicious antics this administration, and perhaps Dick Cheney in particular, that most nefarious molester of U.S. law and ignorer of all political integrity and deeply homophobic father of a creepily lesbian daughter and overall gruntingly guff sneerer at all moral principle, masterful mocker of everything you somehow still manage to think, even in your most despondent and ethically disillusioned state, that American politics is somehow supposed to be about.
    For it was Cheney, you well know, who yanked Bush's puppet strings in order to get Libby off the hook. It was Cheney who whispered sweet, oozing nothings into Dubya's ear to convince him to screw the goddamn law and mock the American jury system and further lock down America's standing as the most corrupt and least accountable nation in the entire developed world.
    What, are you surprised by all this? Of course you're not. It is, of course, all about the cover-up, all about preventing Libby from revealing the real criminals in all this, about Cheney's nefarious role in the Plame case, all about ensuring the cabal remains intact and unassailable and throbbing with misprision.
    It was so cute as to be actually damaging to the soul. Bush actually ambled forth and said that, while he "respects the jury" in the Libby case, the 2.5 year sentence was simply "too harsh." Baby, if 30 months in a comfy well-stocked rape-free Martha Stewart-decorated facility for compromising national security is too harsh, I've got a draconian little thing called the Patriot Act to sell you, cheap.
    Here's a swell side note: You know who gets harsher sentences than 30 months in white-collar prison, George? Pot dealers. That's right. The average sentence for a convicted marijuana dealer in California is 3.3 years. In real prison, George, not that namby-pamby Club Fed where Scooter would've played badminton and sipped tea. Hell, in places like Oklahoma and Alabama, you can get a life sentence for possessing a single marijuana bud, which is ironic indeed, given how if you live in Oklahoma or Alabama, there is nothing that would serve your miserable id better than to be deeply and thoroughly stoned every single day and twice on Sunday. But that's another column.
    Just a hint of perspective, George. See, we all know you drank like a monosyllabic fish and were rumored to enjoy your share of premium flake during all those years you were skipping poli-sci class in college as you snorted money from the silver spoon you were born with, so maybe you can appreciate this viewpoint. Or, you know, maybe not.
    You know who's now done more jail time that Scooter Libby? Paris Hilton. Paris Hilton has now accomplished more in the eyes of the law to pay her debt to society than the VP's former chief of staff ever will for assisting BushCo in corrupting the soul of the goddamn nation. Isn't that cute? Cute enough to cause sharp stabbing pain in your abdomen requiring great amounts of scotch and marijuana to anesthetize? You bet it is.
    Lest we forget, Dubya's latest abuse of law follows hot on the heels of Dick Cheney declaring himself a unique and unassailable branch of government, free to ignore the law and refuse to hand over detailed reports of how he's handled classified information to the federal, Bush-approved oversight agency in charge of making sure people just like Dick don't take too many liberties with power and ego and dictatorial megalomania. Whoops, too late.
    Just another appalling notch in the belt for Dick, really. To be added to the collection, right alongside the bit where he endorses torture, or how he initiated the secret detention of foreigners in brutal Eastern European prisons, or his love of military tribunals, or the hard-on he gets for detaining foreigners illegally, for years, at Guantanamo Bay, or the way he works to derail freedom of the press, or how he abuses environmental law and rearranges the federal budget as he sees fit all while sucking up Halliburton kickbacks, and...
    Oh my. The list is long indeed. And it is, in its way, far uglier and more dangerous than that of his bumbling, inept boss. But you already knew that, right?
    All in all, you could say it's much like a very bad episode of "The Sopranos," all thick-minded thugs and boorish mafia tactics and the childish calling in of violent favors, all about ruthless loyalty at the expense of, well, everything else: humanity, integrity, decency, the will of the people. And there is Bush, the hollow figurehead, the smirking decider, with Cheney as the henchman, the hangman, the guy at the door with the black gloves and the baseball bat and the black van waiting outside.
    Except wait a minute; in this endless episode, there's no deeper sense of existential angst, no smart-tongued therapy sessions full of humor and revelation, no hint of greatness, no darkly heroic Tony Soprano character who transcends it all and suspects there is more to life than this world of blood and violence and war and even craves, somewhere in his soul, to find it.
    OK, check that. It's not "The Sopranos" at all. It's more like a particularly noxious episode of "Mama's Family," all Neanderthal redneck inbred imbeciles doing bad accents and idiotic pratfalls and slapping each other in the face to the tune of an insufferable, forced laugh track, all centered around a laughably dreadful character who blurts out sarcastic one-liners so stupid and inept they make your skin crawl.
    Except no one's laughing. And tens of thousands of people are dying. And the country is rotting at its core. And the world, oh the world, the world knows this degrading, deeply humiliating show cannot be cancelled fast enough.
    Quote from Jakg :Jeez Kev i took that as a recommendation to watch it,

    Wow, I didn't know you could watch it at Google Video. I remember it scared the poop out of me at the time (I think I was 10 years old) when the cold war was still going on, but I haven't seen it since. I might have to watch it again now.
    #55 - SamH
    He didn't watch it on Google.. he Googled to find out what it was, then nagged me to find it for him Wink
    Quote from SamH :Okay.. but I meant a relevent response to MY comment, since it was blahquoteblah'd.
    ...blah blah blah... Wink
    but you can't blahdismissblah your way through what I say just because I'm not an American. That'd be laughable.

    Sure I can. I'm a Texan. We didn't get our independence from you. We got it from Spain and later Mexico. We joined the United States.
    And please don't tell me how you brits "challenged" the establishment that "we" (err "They") fought against. when your country has enacted policies
    and laws that all but destroy the rights of an individual...weird asbo letters to people because the government has decided they aren't acting properly??? Gov't officials able to pass laws that are wholly unacceptable to the public (like charging people to drive into London?) With out any real fear of consequences for their actions.

    And as for the "Soprano/Mam's Family" crap... In America that activity is easily exposed... but I notice not too much in The UK or it's affiliates like New Zealand. LOL you'd be naive to think it wasn't going on in y'alls countries. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if concepts of shadow governments are operating in your own countries right now at levels that would make Nixon turn over in his grave.

    Anyways you're right about a few things about the media but I don't think
    exactly the way you typed it...

    20 years ago you could go to any big city and read news papers from several local publishers. now most cities have only one source. That's not a good thing - especially when those papers are owned by just a few nation wide companies.

    Another problem we have are appointed judges that use their power to shape or attempt to shape both domestic and foreign policy from the bench

    oh yeah... as for the torture stuff. You know if that was happening to anti-war activists or to just plain ol pinkos like my cousin X (LOL), I'd really be up in arms about that, but when I realize the guy getting this is someone whose idea of a decisive victory is strapping a bomb to a mental
    defect and killing a mosque full of innocent people, I just really don't give a damn.

    @DriFt: I'm sorry about that. Smile My keyboard sucks almost as bad as my typing does.
    #57 - SamH
    Quote from Racer Y :And as for the "Soprano/Mam's Family" crap... In America that activity is easily exposed... but I notice not too much in The UK or it's affiliates like New Zealand. LOL you'd be naive to think it wasn't going on in y'alls countries. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if concepts of shadow governments are operating in your own countries right now at levels that would make Nixon turn over in his grave.

    Yeah, I imagine you would think that! Actually, I think the whole world is standing in awe at the corruption in the US. They're not even trying to hide it any more. They're just getting on with it. What does go on, here, gets caught and doesn't get Libby'd, though I'm sure you can't even imagine that at this point.

    Yesterday, our Prime Minister (the new one, now Tony Blair's gone) announced that he's devolving the power of decision to send Brits to war, and handing that decision to the elected House Of Commons. Why? So nobody else ever again can screw up so totally and utterly, like Blair did, by following the likes of Bush/Cheney into other sovereign nations. SOME countries learn from their mistakes, and actually DO something to prevent them happening again.
    And the last country NZ invaded was ................................


    Samoa in 1914 when about 100 NZ troops took over the country from about 200 Germans who were too busy laughing to resist.

    Total killed or injured = 0

    The really neat moment was when we saw off a German Pocket Battleship with rifles. Big grin

    And who the hell are we an affiliate off ???

    Our last US military moment was when we told the US where they could insert their nuclear ships and the ANZUS treaty. ( 1985 )
    ( Please step back, I can smell the uranium on your breath. D Lange. NZ Prime Minister )

    While we still have military links with the US & Britain we're not exactly flavour of the month ( wonder why ?? )

    Apart, of course for our SAS ( most of our regular army ) corporal who's just got the VC in Afghanistan.
    So don't give me any isolationist rubbish, we more than pull our weight with peacekeeping as well as special ops.

    So apart from french frogmen ( Rainbow Warrior ) we have managed to avoid being invaded or invading anyone.
    And we caught those buggers ...........

    Also, to avoid the whole one party thing we went with an MMP electoral system over 15 years ago and while it's not perfect it's a lot less imperfect than many other systems.
    It also means that politicians must co-operate to pass legislation, no agreement = no law.
    I knew there was a reason I liked New Zealand - other than Peter Jackson, the Finn brothers and all the completely bitchin' roads through the mountains. Russell Crowe you can bloody well have back though Smile

    I've always liked how NZ leaders aren't afraid to stand up to bigger countries (Australia included). I have fond memories of David Lange during the Hawke era actually (and sad memories of the Rainbow Warrior). On the Hawke topic, I think that may have been the last time an Australian PM showed some military cojones when he told Reagan exactly where he could deploy his MX missiles...he must've still been jazzed over winning the America's Cup Tilt plus, Vietnam was still fresh in the national psyche and that may have had something to do with it. The lessons of that little SE-Asian excursion seem to have been lost on quite a few people, but that's a whole other thread.

    As for your invasions - there seem to be a lot of you guys in Melbourne (there were 30,000 Kiwis in the crowd at the rugby the other night), should I be worried? Tilt
    Only if your Spanish, if the re-run of the Americas Cup is in Spain again then we may set up a colony. Uh-hu
    Seeing as we are the only country that wants the damn thing ( apart from the Swiss who brought the NZ A team )

    Now is there a way to mix Yachting and Rugby ........Uhmm
    Becky, want to try ? ................

    Sorry but u get to keep Russell .........
    ( We've never liked Rabbits - go Warriers !! )
    Quote from Hankstar :As for your invasions - there seem to be a lot of you guys in Melbourne (there were 30,000 Kiwis in the crowd at the rugby the other night), should I be worried? Tilt

    only if you find them laughable

    Quote from Racer X NZ :Now is there a way to mix Yachting and Rugby ........Uhmm
    Becky, want to try ? ................

    where it really gets tough is when you try to weave in cricket as well
    Quote from Racer X NZ :Only if your Spanish, if the re-run of the Americas Cup is in Spain again then we may set up a colony. Uh-hu
    Seeing as we are the only country that wants the damn thing ( apart from the Swiss who brought the NZ A team )

    Let's analyse this... A sailing cup won by a team legally based in a State that has no access to the sea, contended by a team really based in a State where sailing is a national sport. And in other countries (like Italy) the majority of people doesn't give a toss about America's Cup, or they see it just as something nice that can be either easily forgotten or lightly celebrated. Just to make an example, I really can't imagine this sort of stuff happening anywhere here (or in the States) to celebrate the America's cup.

    I feel your pain.

    To get back on topic, great commentary by Morford. It's refreshing to read someone who's able to write with his guts without disconnecting his brain.
    Quote from Racer Y :oh yeah... as for the torture stuff. You know if that was happening to anti-war activists or to just plain ol pinkos like my cousin X (LOL), I'd really be up in arms about that, but when I realize the guy getting this is someone whose idea of a decisive victory is strapping a bomb to a mental
    defect and killing a mosque full of innocent people, I just really don't give a damn.

    Because all the people who were illegally imprisoned and tortured by the USA after 9/11 were guilty, right? Like Moazzam Begg?

    SamH: Note that the UK were complicit in these acts of torture too. In some cases facilitating the torture of their own nationals by allowing the CIA to use our airspace to transport them.
    #65 - SamH
    Quote from thisnameistaken :SamH: Note that the UK were complicit in these acts of torture too. In some cases facilitating the torture of their own nationals by allowing the CIA to use our airspace to transport them.

    Yeah Frown I'm trusting that it's going to come properly to the fore at some point. I reckon it'll be a real litmus test.
    Quote from SamH :Yeah Frown I'm trusting that it's going to come properly to the fore at some point.

    I wouldn't bet on this.

    I regret to say Italy too is deepily involved in CIA flights, explicitly aiding the torturers.

    And then, in Milan, Abu Omar's kidnap.

    The judges have steadily repeated their will to prosecute the kidnappers involved, but there has been so far an enormous amount of political resistance. The Italian secret agents involved in the case have been jailed or are in jail.

    The enquiry is ongoing. The US decided not to hand to the Italian judges the CIA agents who orchestrated and executed the kidnap. There has been a lot of political pressure to slow down or halt the enquiry, and the bold moves of the judges are resisted for various, obvious reasons from both sides of the political spectrum.

    Some reasons may be obvious to me, but that doesn't mean that I consider them good... So we have some hopes in common. Maybe it's just because I developed a deep distrust in mainstream politics, but I wouldn't bet on these hopes.
    #67 - SamH
    Have the flights stopped? The priority for me is first to see change.. and then see prosecutions. Complicity with the CIA must be halted.
    Quote from SamH :Have the flights stopped?

    I don't know. But I know that if you don't prosecute and jail anyone for their deeds, the flights will never stop.
    Quote from SamH :Yeah Frown I'm trusting that it's going to come properly to the fore at some point. I reckon it'll be a real litmus test.

    We've already had our governmental integrity litmus test when our PM stepped in to halt the fraud enquiry into the BAE deal with Saudi Arabia.

    I still find it bizarre, however, that the US DoJ is busy investigating this British oil trade scandal, when its own oil business is being muscled along quite nicely by their nation's military, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people and making millions of other destitute in the process.
    #70 - SamH
    Quote from thisnameistaken :We've already had our governmental integrity litmus test when our PM stepped in to halt the fraud enquiry into the BAE deal with Saudi Arabia.

    I don't think that's over, actually. I hope not, anyway. Didn't Brown also just propose giving up the ability to halt enquiries like that too?
    Quote from thisnameistaken :I still find it bizarre, however, that the US DoJ is busy investigating this British oil trade scandal, when its own oil business is being muscled along quite nicely by their nation's military, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people and making millions of other destitute in the process.

    Nothing about the US DoJ surprises me. The biggest oil co. in the US is BP and I'm sure Dubya isn't happy about that.
    Quote from SamH :I don't think that's over, actually. I hope not, anyway. Didn't Brown also just propose giving up the ability to halt enquiries like that too?

    Did he? I didn't hear about that. Either way the horse has already bolted.

    Anyway, that's just two examples - off the top of my head - of our government being no better than the gang of sleazy crooks which is running the USA. I'm sure I could come up with more. And of course we've got other ridiculously invasive scheme that they don't have, like omnipresent state-controlled CCTV, the proposed compulsory biometric ID card and so on. According to Privacy International, the UK's government surveillance programme is matched only by those in Russia, China, Singapore and Malaysia.

    And we're busy bitching about the public smoking ban being a loss of a civil liberty. Pfft...
    #72 - SamH
    Quote from thisnameistaken :Did he? I didn't hear about that. Either way the horse has already bolted.

    I don't know proper yet, not had a chance to figure out what he's giving up, but it all seemed to have an air of closing the loopholes his mate just slipped through, and to restore some confidence in the sleazy bastards. I mean.. democratically elected officials. Damn.. keep getting that wrong!

    Quote from thisnameistaken :And we're busy bitching about the public smoking ban being a loss of a civil liberty. Pfft...

    At least, in the very near future, they'll be able to say "public places MEANS public places" and we can get £80 spot-fined for chuffing while walking down country lanes. We'll even get a polaroid of ourselves doing it. Nice of them! Smile

    American Justice
    (72 posts, started )
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