Quote :

rb4= too much tourqe not enough accl

Seeing as it isn't traction limited how does it have too much torque?

Quote :

xrt= eazist car to drive just sttick it in gear floor the trottle and pray to god you dont crash

They're all easy to drive, but the FXO is by far the easiest car to drive fast and the XRT is the hardest car to drive fast, the satisfaction from being able to drive them fast goes the opposite way

FXO = Slow start, slow on the straights, slow out of turns, slow in turns, but Good under braking. Lovable, but now crap. Aparently it understeers, but i can't say i've noticed :P

RB4 = Wierd powerband, lots of grip, lots of grunt. Eats XRT's and FXO's for breakfast whatever the surface. Pick if you want to win.

XRT = Nice engine and power, RWD gives some... hairy moments - harder to drive, but rewarding, nice cars, nice power, gets owned by the RB4, but owns the FXO. Has lots of understeer.

I love the way you say the XRT is easy, but i have to "pray to god i don't crash"

FXO is probably easiest, RB4 is fastest - if you want to win the RB4 rocks, its easy and quick, the XRT is more rewarding to drive, but i just LOVE the FXO

Quote from Jakg :

....

I get the feeling that you're a little bitter about the new balanced TBO class. I can't quite put my finger on what is giving me this impression but there is definitely something there.

Really? :P

I don't like the fact that rather than get rid of the wide FXO tyres (That used to make it so quick) they've just added weight and cut the power - it now can't compete on the straights, and i've come into situations where i've got a VERY good exit from the last turn at SO1 (a turn i've done 710 before at LEAST, so i know i was doing well), and been up the arse of an XRT - it gets the tail out, smoke billows from her wheels - i scoot up the inside, but because my car is now a large rhino once the XRT straightens up, he puts his foot down and shoots past me

The FXO SHOULD be slower on tarmac - i'm not arguing that, but a good driver should still shine through. ATM you need luck AND skill to overtake, you should only need skill.

Plus i'm an FXO whore

EDIT - The irony - if only at Christmas i was an XRT driver i'd be saying exactly the same about the over dominant FXO. I drive the FXO because it was the only car i could drive fast, and now although i can drive most of 'em quick, the FXO is still one of my faves because of the looks, the sound etc - it's a car i find great, but its a shame i can put my hundreds of laps of STCC Combo experience into a turn and be left with the overtake sticking for all of 2 seconds

RB4 is much closer now to FXO, but I still think the FXO is the quicker of the 3, but they are now quite well balanced.

Jack's just annoyed that XRT's and RB4's can beat him now

But on the point of the XRT. I found it wasn't the easiest to drive, as my exploits in the STCC showed...Luckily I seem to have it more under control now, it just takes time and patience, but I'd rather drive an FXO or RB4 any day.

Quote from Jakg :

I don't like the fact that rather than get rid of the wide FXO tyres (That used to make it so quick) they've just added weight and cut the power

Durr, maybe because this is not possible if you want the patch to stay physics compatible? :rolleyes:

The RB4 is now more competitive, but it's still too heavy to slow compared to the XRT and the FXO.

Can't really see where an RB4 eats FXO and XRT to breakfast.

You really need to know how to drive it to be quick.

i have no quarells with the XRT and RB4 being faster - they're harder to drive, but they only need to be a bit faster, atm the FXO has very little chance lap time wise, and in racing situations where you only get a chance to gun it on the exit when the guy in front makes a mistake, the FXO just sits there for around a second before the turbo gives you any power

EDIT - I understand why Android, but imo we are due a hotlap reset anyway, but from what i gather Patch Y will give us Physics improvements, so it seems i'll keep complaining until then, when Scawen will finally give the FXO the nozzzzzz it needs

I'm not so sure where you saw the rb4 eating fxo's and xrt's for breakfast but the last few days I've seen xrt's being the fastest. A good driver could get a very low 1:24 on bl1 with xrt while most good rb4 drivers struggle to get 1:24.5

XRT is fastest now, rb4 and fxo are pretty damn close depending on track.

I've seen XRT's on the bug servers lapping faster than I've ever seen an RB4 lap..still a bit early to see which cars the fastest, but your probably right, its not the FXO anymore.

Change is a good thing, having to relearn how to drive a car slightly, having closer competition between the class of cars..who cares if the FXO isn't the fastest anymore, its made the racing a LOT more fun now all 3 cars are being driven.

If you can lap the FXO at a 1.24.5 pace on BL1, clearly its not that much slower, laptimes on the bug test server rarely go below that level.

In my testing over the last few days, I've found the RB4 fastest personally, but have lost many many races to XRT's running better laptimes.

Quote from ATHome :

Can't really see where an RB4 eats FXO and XRT to breakfast.

You really need to know how to drive it to be quick.

it eats the fxo and xrt on any track that has laptimes of around 1:20 and only short straights.

of course blackwood with the longs straights will result in the xrt being the fastest. RB4 wasn't made any slower from patch W, so the laptimes are the same. the XRT was given +20 kgs, which made it probably 1-2 tenths slower in worst case. The FXO suffers the most, but is surely capable of doing 23's. I almost managed to do it myself, despite not having any practice there with this car.

The FXO has really been kicked back down the order, it still corners and brakes better than the XRT, but down the straights it has no hope and on faster circuits the FXO is just outpaced XRT and to a lesser extent RB4.

RB4 has always been just about on the XRT pace around the shortest circuits, if not quicker, and now with the penalties in place RB4 is much closer at the long fast tracks, and significantly ahead on the shorter ones.

I think FXO could stand to lose 10KG without it becoming dominant again. But it all depends on which track you're driving, the cars could be "balanced" if you're running a season on a wide variety of fast and slow tracks, but how many of us do that every time we play?

Sounds like an active handicap system could be benficial, adding handicaps in order of laptimes.

Would be a "fake" way of racing, and would negate the choice of different cars, but it might be a fun option to have server side.

RB4 might own everything on short races (test patches/patch X), but if you have 10 laps instead of 5 you might get in trouble with your tires. It's easy to drive and seems to have enormous amounts of grip and you can push it all you want, but it will wear your tires. Plus, the top speed seems to be lower than XRT or FXO. It's not superior in any means. I'd say TBO is very balanced at the moment.

Oh, missed the second page.

Quote from Jakg :

FXO = Slow start (True, FWD front tire smoking.), slow on the straights (Nonsense, True only if weighed down and depowered.), slow out/in turns(Load of bollocks, only possible if weighed down and depowered aka ATTEMPTED TEMPORARY CLASS BALANCE.), but Good under braking(Only because of HUGE 250mm wide tires). Lovable, but now crap(Which part of TEMPORARY balancing did you not understand?). Aparently it understeers(What do you expect from a lead tipped arrow?), but i can't say i've noticed :P

RB4 = Wierd powerband(Ridiculously narrow. No midrange torque and no top end either), lots of grip(Please do not confuse traction with grip. Relatively small tires mean it'll never outgrip the FXO), lots of grunt(No greater power to weight ratio than the other , so?). Eats XRT's and FXO's for breakfast whatever the surface(Used to be the complete opposite.). Pick if you want to win(Used to be complete opposite too, except on tighter and more technical tracks).

XRT = Nice engine and power, RWD gives some... hairy moments - harder to drive, but rewarding, nice cars, nice power, gets owned by the RB4(on tighter and more technical circuits that require more aggression and traction than high speed acceleration and top speed.), but owns the FXO. Has lots of understeer(What setup did you use? 120kN/m springs front and 80kN/m springs rear and the biggest rollbar you could fit up front? No wonder.).

I love the way you say the XRT is easy, but i have to "pray to god i don't crash" (Are you running the latest tire physics? Preloaded clutch diffs have done a lot to alleviate ridiculously unstable RWD syndrome in LFS. Please install throttle_control.exe too.)

...

So, what do you want, another return to show after show of absolute domination by "the unbeatable FXO"? As someone said in this forum before me, it seems that it's always the guys who've lost their unfair advantage from their supposedly unbeatable cars in a given class that whine and whine and whine whilst the rest of us just want realistic physics and performance coupled with fine tuned balancing for given classes and circuits to make racing fun for everyone.

Wait wait, how is grip different from traction? Must be the language differences again, I can't think any difference for those two words because they translate to the same single word.

I think he meant handling/balance and grip/traction.

Traction-Ability to turn torque into forward accelerative force with longitudinal grip.

Grip-Traction is part of grip but only the longitudinal plane. Grip encompasses both longitudinal and lateral planes. Lateral grip is ability to generate lateral force.

Now all clear? Good.

Quote from Jamexing :

So, what do you want, another return to show after show of absolute domination by "the unbeatable FXO"? As someone said in this forum before me, it seems that it's always the guys who've lost their unfair advantage from their supposedly unbeatable cars in a given class that whine and whine and whine whilst the rest of us just want realistic physics and performance coupled with fine tuned balancing for given classes and circuits to make racing fun for everyone.

Grrrrrrrr


HE said the XRT was easy, but he ALSO said you also "pray to god you don't crash"

Jakqui: I'm sure you'd agree the balancing we'll get in X is better than what we've got in W, and you know that the FXO is going to change again in the near future with the next physics-incompatible patch. I wouldn't get too stressed about your favourite car getting nerfed just yet.

If the FXO is slightly slower over a single lap at the moment I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing anyway. It's easier to drive the FXO close to the limit so laptime stability should be better than in the other two, which ought to balance things over the course of a race.

I should really go on the TBO test server and see the differences for myself...

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I should really go on the TBO test server and see the differences for myself...

There is quite a marked difference Kev

Quote from danowat :

There is quite a marked difference Kev

I'm guessing it's generally a positive change though, right? I mean, better balancing is good, right?

IMO? yeah, sure it is, the cars is still different enough to warrant the choice, but close enough to promote good racing.

I had an RB4 "up my chuff" on Blackwood GP, something that has never happened before (I was in the FXO)

I find the XRT very dificult to drive because in the other rear wheel drive cars that i drive (FOX and FO8) i very much lean on the rear end, this is not posible on the xrt as it has a very odd oversteer/yaw feeling to me, i tried a whole week to like at, but i learned to be 'fastish' but i just dont like it

Im find the FXO really fun, just a pity about the exagerated performance difference from standstill.

I find it quite consistant, id also like to rub jakg nose in it, look it can be done :

1.FlintFredstoneFXO 7:15.040
2.colXRT+0:03.44050
3.BBO@BSRFXO+0:03.58050
4.SparkyDaveRB4+0:05.10050
5.BarrosoXRT+0:07.62050
6.RicouXRT+0:10.76050
7.Vykos69FXO+0:16.21050
8.KartRacerRB4+0:16.73050
9.mitsumekuRB4+0:16.97050
10.DEVIL 007FXO+0:17.84050
11.RINGPULLFXO+0:23.43050
12.Alex XTC [ESP]XRT+0:23.57050
13.DeKoFXO+0:25.00050
14.TysCaarghFXO+0:25.13050LPsPn
15.Dee SliderXRT+0:26.23050
16.willgibboXRT+0:28.35050
17.ev0RB4+0:30.52050
18._--NZ--_[HUN]FXO+0:32.70050
19.RoscoutFXO+0:34.03050
20.Michel 4AGERB4+0:37.93050
21.AK-ChesterRB4+0:44.51050
22.franky500RB4+0:49.78050
23.undozXRT+0:51.20050
24.ponttooniXRT+1:13.23050
25.ak-georgeRB4+1 laps40
26.DajminFXO+1 laps40
27.tonixRB4+3 laps20
28.mkinnov8FXO+4 laps10

Detailed lap informationFlintFredstone - FXO
1. 1:35.180
2. 1:25.500
3. 1:24.780
4. 1:24.880
5. 1:24.700
col - XRT
1. 1:35.690
2. 1:26.030
3. 1:24.580
4. 1:25.060
5. 1:27.120
BBO@BSR - FXO
1. 1:35.890
2. 1:27.170
3. 1:25.320
4. 1:25.130
5. 1:25.110
SparkyDave - RB4
1. 1:40.330
2. 1:25.210
3. 1:25.670
4. 1:24.590
5. 1:24.340
Barroso - XRT
1. 1:41.070
2. 1:27.470
3. 1:24.860
4. 1:24.550
5. 1:24.710

Ricou - XRT
1. 1:43.240
2. 1:26.330
3. 1:25.920
4. 1:26.120
5. 1:24.190

Vykos69 - FXO
1. 1:46.170
2. 1:27.310
3. 1:26.520
4. 1:25.530
5. 1:25.720