i love this game its so much fun!
but some nigths i just dont wanna play, i only really use the CTRA servers because they give u something to play for and aim at etc.
i try to race as clean as i can, when im in a pack im constantly letting off the gas or tappin the brakes when things get to close as i see this as being cautious and quite good racing.
but why dont many other people do this? enterting corners im getting shuted from the rear because the guy behind doesnt anticipate my braking, if im following some 1 i do my best to adjust to thier racing line untill i see fit to overtake, i dont call bombing into a corner then slamming on the bakes just to get past clean racing. Surely its common sense to ease off the throttle when following into a bend etc.
racing is constantly ruined by rammers who belive its fine to bash u out of the way and then everythings better by saying "sorry "
sorry to ramble on just gets on my nervers a little, dont get me wrong some nights i can play for hours with 30 clean race's and other nights i can racer for 30mins and get rammed off into a wall every race.....

Yes I think it's annoying too, and I hate people who do that, but you really don't always know if he did it on purpose or not. I've been late on braking sometimes too and then accidentally tapped or even crashed the car in front of me. Ofcourse I said sorry, but for his side of view I could've been a crasher too.

Well in real life, for example, people think about the cars a bit, they just don't go and push everybody out of the way since you can pit in the next round and invisible men come and fix your car. In lfs you won't get a feeling that it's not good to break your car, so a little "tap" looks fine for them.

i no what u mean its not always on purpose, i do it myself sometimes 2 especially in big packs if i brake to give the guy infront room some1 else rams me and i still hit them lol
but say if its just me and 1 other guy racing and i spin him as i try to over take or something i always let them back infront, i dunno if i should be doing it but he was infront untill i spun him so i feel its only right.

It's a matter of attitude. Some people do it, some don't. It's just the way it is.

Quote from SLIDE WAYZ :

i love this game its so much fun!
but some nigths i just dont wanna play, i only really use the CTRA servers because they give u something to play for and aim at etc.
i try to race as clean as i can, when im in a pack im constantly letting off the gas or tappin the brakes when things get to close as i see this as being cautious and quite good racing.
but why dont many other people do this? enterting corners im getting shuted from the rear because the guy behind doesnt anticipate my braking, if im following some 1 i do my best to adjust to thier racing line untill i see fit to overtake, i dont call bombing into a corner then slamming on the bakes just to get past clean racing. Surely its common sense to ease off the throttle when following into a bend etc.
racing is constantly ruined by rammers who belive its fine to bash u out of the way and then everythings better by saying "sorry "
sorry to ramble on just gets on my nervers a little, dont get me wrong some nights i can play for hours with 30 clean race's and other nights i can racer for 30mins and get rammed off into a wall every race.....

Basically you´re saying accidents doesn´t have enough impact on the cars and I agree with that. It shouldn´t be possible to win a race with a trashed car. Right now it is. But that would be improvement section...

Because you can´t really blaim racers that they wanna win a race. Right now they do it the way it is possible for them. At all costs sometimes. That´s male genetic stuff and it gets less ( better ) as older you get...

I've noticed a decline in the standard of driving since I got my silver license a couple of months ago.

I don't get it, guys. You say you see dismal driving, but we only VERY rarely get anything at http://ctra.ukct.net/report.asp. If you're seeing it, report it. If you don't report it, how are we going to keep the standard up?

It's a simple fact that we don't have enough admins to sit in the servers all of the time, especially right now. But we DO have plenty of admins to review MPRs of incidents. We can only review MPRs that you guys send us. And we DO review them all. WHEN we get them.

We depend on you guys backing up complaints with MPRs, and we've pledged that we will back YOU guys to the hilt, and make it a place for you to want to be.

maybe u should start a CTRA team... and everyone in the team could be a server admin? the trouble is with the mpr's is that u can only really send 1 at a time and if an admin see's the indcident as an accident then nothing will happen, but if the person is ramming every race does this mean we gotta send 5 or 6 mprs?
a race team of admins would be quite a good ide if u ask me.

I agree with Sam that if there's a problem - report it. That's basically the only way this sort of behaviour can be effectively dealt with.

I too have noticed a drop in standards recently, mostly at the rear of the field and I believe this is just due to ebbs and flows. As more new recently qualified silver drivers qualify, you can sort of tell who they are with their brash aggressive driving styles and "me first" mentality. Most seem to settle down quite quickly, some don't unfortunately. These are the ones who must be reported.

On the other side of the coin I have a slight niggle with the reporting system which states that I will receive a reply if I fill in some additional information. On the occasional time I have made a report, this hasn't happened. I feel this is a discouragement to others to report as it does nothing to instill confidence that the report has been dealt with at all. It probably has been but it does promote a bad impression that it's all just a waste of time. (Albeit that this is not the case) Would a simple e-mail reply not solve this ?

Tony

Sam - I don't think many people record MPRs while racing; I personally don't, but I don't complain either.

Maybe it would be better if the servers could record the MPRs, and we, the players, can ask admins to review certain races.

...
Drive your race, if an incident occurred save it with a suitable name. At the end of the day report them all. It's not that hard, really :-\

Quote from SLIDE WAYZ :

maybe u should start a CTRA team... and everyone in the team could be a server admin? the trouble is with the mpr's is that u can only really send 1 at a time and if an admin see's the indcident as an accident then nothing will happen

There's already a CTRA team of admins, made up of several well-known and well-respected drivers from well-known teams. We have a deal where we don't mention their names, because they don't need ear-ache from disgruntled racers - but all of the admin decisions are made and ratified by others. This is the system we set out to create

Quote from Swiss_Tony :

On the other side of the coin I have a slight niggle with the reporting system which states that I will receive a reply if I fill in some additional information. On the occasional time I have made a report, this hasn't happened. I feel this is a discouragement to others to report as it does nothing to instill confidence that the report has been dealt with at all.

This is my fault, and I apologise. The group of admins confer and decisions are made, but it's up to me to follow up with emailing back where it's requested. I've not been vigilent enough in making sure that I've replied to all those who requested it. We're going to be changing the way the reports are handled, to make things even more efficient and this problem will be solved once and for all at that point, if not before. ALL reports are dealt with in the order they're received. There are occasions where no action is taken, but even in those instances an email should (and will in future) be sent.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

Maybe it would be better if the servers could record the MPRs, and we, the players, can ask admins to review certain races.

I wish that were possible, but sadly it's not. The dedicated server doesn't have that facility We will always need MPRs.

If anyone wishes to pool MPRs, and would rather just email them to me, you can do so to My LFS username at UKCT.net (trying not to give spam-bots my email address on a plate, there ) which has an unlimited filesize mailbox, and the reporting page also now accepts both .ZIP and .RAR files, if you have more than one replay to send over.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

...
Drive your race, if an incident occurred save it with a suitable name. At the end of the day report them all. It's not that hard, really :-\

Works for me!

Quote from SamH :

I don't get it, guys. You say you see dismal driving, but we only VERY rarely get anything at http://ctra.ukct.net/report.asp. If you're seeing it, report it. If you don't report it, how are we going to keep the standard up?

I think the problem is that it's difficult to pin anything on anybody without being a total nazi about it. I was in your servers a couple of weeks back and when they get full it's a total joke, perhaps even worse than a "normal" full server because people have got these points they're so desperate to accumulate. When half the field are driving like twats, who do you report?

Last time I was in there, it was probably a different guy who took me out every race, but still, every race I got taken out. Y'know? Can't really vilify a single racer for that - it gets like a pack mentality, everybody's doing it so I'd better do it, etc.

It's also hard to say who's lagging, or who's got crappy FPS because it's lap one, or who's trying but is a bit inexperienced and as such a liability, and so on.

In short: I don't think it works without admins active on the server. Doesn't really make it any different to any other multiplayer though.

Yep Kev, I can see how that's how it will pan out.

FTR I don't mind getting replays just of "awful races". We can go through them as if admining them, figuring out if any particular individuals are responsible. The magic of our system is that people who just need a talking to can get that through the licencing system. Usually that's as much as is needed, especially those who are barrelling into T1 or pit-moving people. "We see you! Sort it out." is usually more than enough. If they persist, we can look at more severe consequences, but in my experience over-enthusiasm is usually the root cause of most bad experiences, and is easily cured without breaking anyone's fingers.

e: our biggest problems at the moment are of timing. Usually admining during peak times isn't possible for most of our admins. We can make time to watch replays easier. This will fix itself later, but atm this is our situation.

Quote :

I wish that were possible, but sadly it's not. The dedicated server doesn't have that facility We will always need MPRs.

The CTRA software can make server side replays, it's in the code but disabled at the moment. The problem is the format is unique to itself and I never got as far as making the viewer! lol. So close...

It does annoy me when people say the server are somehow responsible for a low standard of driving. They run patch W so at best there are 20 cars on track. The problem is a selection of those 20 people in the cars. Points dont magically reduce a persons ability to drive, if that is your perception then it is a perception but not necessarily correct.

I'm not a fool, I know how bad online racing can be when - shall we say a 'selection' - of drivers treat it too much like a 'game'. I've been there seen it and got the dented T-Shirt from the vendor at turn 1. This is a problem that exists throughout sim racing [more so outside of LFS where usernames are not bound], it's WHY I introduced these servers.

The CTRA has the best administration back end ever seen, it's more comprehensive and fair than the barricade ever was and I know, because i've seen with my own eyes, that it has made good drivers out of previous 'gamers' by keeping notes on drivers behaviour over a period of time.

At the end of the day though it's just a tool, and if it's full of idiots then it'll never work. A spanner doesnt operate itself, it needs a mechanic. The same is true of any race server in LFS - if they're full of people from this community then it'll never work.

Somewhere on this community, and I dont know where because everyone on the forum insists they are a good driver, but somewhere... There are complete idiots who are ruining races. You can psychoanalyse what group of players they belong to all you like, or blame it on the servers, but the fact is they are part of the LFS community and i've not cast any magic to make them drive like idiots on these servers - i've given you the tools to get the idiots retrained or restrained. It's up to you to turn the handle of the tool.

i think most drivers i ever met on any CTRA server were nice and fair ones.

most bumps and crashes are not intended by the driver. they drive
different cars, they have different braking points and different speeds.

that causes the most crash´s.

and the most important thing is, we are all not perfect !!!

the only thing i think is worse a report is, when a driver crashes over
a few races a lot of people, but this is really an exception.

ignoring a blue flag is something like that.

and (the only report i ever made and never heard of either): when someone is too fast in the pits,
aims at your car, crashes you full speed from behind and gives you
a DT this way

at least it was creative

Things do seem to have got a bit worse recently.
I agree that its important for people who are filing reports to get a response with a brief explanation of what the decision was and why.
I recieved a response from Sam from the last report I filed and was surprised !
A while ago, I even wrote in the comments box something like "Please replay and tell me if the reports I've filed have been at least in the right ballpark!", but didn't even get a response to this !!

A couple of things, from the reports I've made, the only ones that _seem_ to have been acted upon were the obvious and successful wrecking attempts, and severe persistant cutting - the rest might have been filed and the driver warned - or they were not worth reporting - I don't know .

Ideally bad driving conduct would be reported, e.g. barging into corners, not leaving room when overtaker has a 50% or greater overlap continual tapping in corners... but it doesn't _seem_ to do any good reporting these things. I have lost so many places to FXOs recently to a gentle tap in the rear during cornering that is seems like accepted practice (amongst the FXO guys running at XRT pace ) - tap the XRT in the corner and pass him as he gets out of shape... What really bothers me most is when folks do this sort of thing and don't apologise... or give you a hefty tap and don't hang back and wait for a re-pass... More and more I've been thinking "if you can't beat 'em join em..." when it used to be "hehe, I'll report you and I'll have the last laugh" but it hasn't panned out that way .

............

One thing that might help the general mood is enforcing the rules at all times - no crashing or 'dangerous driving' between races. Some times recently on the CTRA servers, after a race, it's like a wreck fest as half of the drivers finishing go piling into the folks in front at full throttle, when you finish near the front, you better pit, of keep a good grip on your FF wheel ! So these guys get all over excited from their great crashes just in time for T1 in the next race !

[feature request]
Another thing that may help in future in silver servers is to auto-spectate racers whos LFS-World PB for the combo is slower than 107% (or some similar figure) of world record, this is supposed to be pro standard after all.

Anyhow, excuse my griping and thanks CTRA for the great servers and all the mostly good fun to be had there

cheers

Col

Quote :

[feature request]
Another thing that may help in future in silver servers is to auto-spectate racers whos LFS-World PB for the combo is slower than 107% (or some similar figure) of world record, this is supposed to be pro standard after all.

It kicks them.

Regarding reporting, the admins are getting more on the ball (I dont do the adminning myself any more) regarding replying to the reporting driver, but i've long since felt that reports should be tied into your own login and dealt with on a response based system, atm we're more involved/worried about patch X than new features though.

I can assure you that the vast majority of reports are logged, minor misdomeanors DO add up, we've always been more interested in the persistent offenders than the one offs - so those who do overtake badly and cause incident ARE worthy of a report.

Quote from SLIDE WAYZ :

racing is constantly ruined by rammers who belive its fine to bash u out of the way and then everythings better by saying "sorry "

One of the most annoying offenses I've seen on bronze servers. Shouldn't you surrender your position if you damage a fellow racer?
Sorry is easily said in such cases, but too many times it sounds like a lie.
I'm one of those who'd like a better feedback on reports. Seeing license points of a reported racer drop down to zero isn't enough.

As I brought up the initial enquiry about missing report feedbacks (and I do think the're very important for the reasons mentioned earlier) I really think that "all things in moderation" should be the key here.

I don't want to see a witch hunt and I do not think it's a good thing that another driver should see a full dossier of misdemeanors and subsequent punishments lest it be used against them in a possible future encounter ie. in some sort of online slagging match. Basically the feedback information should be kept to a minimum detail level. Something like "Report acknowledged, outcome pending/dealt with" That's all really that is needed to assure reporters that the matter is being dealt with. Anything further might encourage a "gloatability" factor which would be totally undesirable.

Geez, that all sounds so serious so here's a smilie as an offset

Tony

It certainly seems to be a bit hit'n'miss on the CTRA servers. Past few nights I've mostly had some really good racing, although since I've not done much racing recently I'm still restricted to the new/bronze servers where you always have to be very cautious with other cars around. However tonight seemed to be a complete n00b-fest, as evidenced by the wrecked cars hobbling around the track getting in people's way, the small field being spread out over half a lap before the leader has even finished the first lap, and the fact that I was actually by far the fastest guy on track for several races, something which hasn't happened since S1 days in the blinged FXO with the race spoiler and huge wheel arch extensions.

Again it's very much a case of not being able to report everything, or it even being appropriate to report everything. So many times on the new/bronze servers, especially with the UF1, that you get mildly nerfed out of a position by careless, incompetent, or "foot to the floor and what the hell" styles of driving, without so much as an apology or even a "my bad". It may surprise some copper/bronze licenced racers, but just because the cars go slower does not turn it into banger racing, or a contact sport in general.

Needless to say, I'm looking forward to the silver servers.

That's the kind of crap online experience I set up the notes system to cure. You see, by keeping notes all the little offences can be kept a track of, and we can keep a pattern of a drivers behaviour. That's why yellows and laps are tracked too - it gives us an idea of how a driver performs.

Ratio under 20%: Superb, you are probably silver standard
Ratio of around 50%: Typically driver is over agressive when not being reported!
Ratio over 100%: [url=lfs://|Caribbean%20Cruise%201%20by%20CLC|0|S2|/]Drive Belongs Here[/url]

Quote from Swiss_Tony :

I don't want to see a witch hunt and I do not think it's a good thing that another driver should see a full dossier of misdemeanors and subsequent punishments lest it be used against them in a possible future encounter ie. in some sort of online slagging match.
Tony

I didn't think you wanted to start a witch hunt, and since this appears to be a reply to my message, I hope you don't think that about me. I just believe that having a bit of feedback would help improve the reporting service... There's no need to slag anyone, but I need to understand if a report was useful or if it was just a waste of time for both the issuer and the reviewer.
Its about efficience, not slagging.
I issued two or three reports, I think, and the only way to check whether the report was useful or not consisted in looking at the license of the reported driver, although I always enclosed my email address: and this, in my opinion, is much sadder than a short mail saying "Hi, action has been taken on your report", or something else. Feedback, in my opinion, is needed to evaluate the action of who reported to help him have better understanding and judgement.

This is why I would like to include the following features:

Ingame command $pass=myPassword (not echoed to screen)

Web interface: Driver username + password screen

Drivers personal web interface: Shows drivers OWN notes field, and allows a report instance to be created, shows resolution type of any reports raised or whether they are still open and pending review.

Admin interface. Report instance database, allows review of all outstanding reports and posting of notes & setting the resolution type: Penalised; Warned; No Action; Open.