The online racing simulator
Deadzone setup > within LFS
1
(32 posts, started )
Deadzone setup > within LFS
I've heard this mentioned on and off for a long time, but I'm unaware if it has ever been put forward as a genuine suggestion on this forum.

The option to configure and edit deadzones from within LFS's own controller interface would literally make the thousands upon thousands of joypad \ joystick players very very happy indeed, for whatever reason we can't all play with a steering wheel - and of course admittedly we may forever be at a disadvantage - but the inclusion of this feature would at least make gameplay for the countless non-wheel legitimate paying LFS customers so much less fustrating.

The default deadzone is tiny, and even the various options regarding wheel sensitivity and turn rotation are still not effective enough (especially for PS2 pad users)

I appreciate that the game is designed to be a simulation, and that the developers want to spend their time working on new gameplay features - this (relatively speaking) small and simple task would make an enormous difference for so many existing customers.

I can only hope the developers will seriously consider it.

If for whatever reason they decide that it simply isn't worth putting the time aside for the feature, I ask could they at least increase the "strength" of the current "wheel turn compensation" option - if it could go up to about 2-3 times of what it currently is, then those who own particularly sensitive controllers should be able to enjoy the game like everyone else.
Good suggestions Blue-Bomber :up:

I can agree that for other control-type users other than the wheel, a deadzone is really important to enjoying and playing the game better. A friend of mine who just bought a new system wanted to give LFS a go... so he downloaded the demo and tried to play the game with a gamepad of mine. He was so frustrated with how sensitive it was, demonstrating to me that a small tap of the analog joystick would send his car sliding or turning the wheels instantly. Eventually, he got a hang of controlling the car, however he was no fast driver, I can tell you that. Every corner was full lock and loads of understeer, and he just made the conclusion that gamepad is just too hard (he has played on my system with my wheel). At least he was impressed with the burnt up flat tires in the end of his few-lap runs

I don't see why there hasn't been an option for it, even some wheel users need to use it.

The alternative solution you have for the "Wheel Turn Compensation" is a good one too, and at times... I wish it could go a lot higher too (especially for the MRT). Maybe there should be some kind of steering acceleration on too... to change the linearity.
Hoping the "Deadzone" option will be in LFS soon
I'm a new LFS Racer and i think it's one of the best racing Simulators of
moment .

I use a PS2 pad for driving with a frontwheel car it's pretty easy to
control the but with rearwheel drive cars it's impossible to go to
full throtle because the car is spinning like mad.

An other problem with the PS2 pad is that the centerpoint is
extremely sensitive, the centersprings are not real hard.

I know that with a deadzone option those little unpleasant
"problems" are fixed.
#4 - Gunn
I read somewhere that deadzones don't persist in XP. So when you reboot your dead zone is gone. I know MS was being lobbied to do something in DX but I don't know if the problem still exists. Maybe another member knows more about this and if it has anything to do with the current situation?
I have no problem whatsoever with an Xbox controller and I remove all the dead spots (and can't imagine it much different to a PS2 type controller ) I have played with wheel turn compensation and analog steer smooth alot and that helps some, but the thing that helps me most with a gamepad is to reduce the max steering lock in each setup to between 12-16 deg , for those that are over turning (i.e. turning the wheel too much) in corners even lower it more on blackwood in the gti I was using 9 deg max steering lock for a long time quite sucessfully

So as a starting point put wheel turn on 180, wheel turn compensation on 60, analog steer smooth to 50 and max steering lock to 12 and then tweak to taste...

As for dead spots, if you can possibly do with out them, its much better as it increases your prescion which is critical in a sim I think most people feel a gamepad is too sensitive only because its hard to judge how much lock your applying, and therefore tend to overturn all the time, which is then no better than keyboard control
You can count me in as one that is desperately in need of in-game deadzone adjustment. My controller, like a lot of PS2-USB adapters, does not use any sort of custom driver, and as a result uses generic controller drivers provided within Windows; this generic driver does NOT have any sort of deadzone adjustment available.

Live for Speed is amazing, but it is incredibly twitchy driving a front-wheel drive car, and it is absolutely impossible to maintain a smooth heading in a rear-wheel drive car because every tiny movement of the analog stick in its' center positions is registered in-game. Not even DXTweak2 has worked, LFS seems to ignore the deadzone adjustments I make via that application
I've been using a PS2 controller since I got the demo in September last year, I got 1'34.13 on BL1 with an Aston National set before patch V came out. The XRT is easy to drift with the controller and some of the cars I can't drive, such as the FZ's (I hate RR layouts). The only car I've had to adjust the max lock on was the FOX. I only use the left stick aswell, using the right stick for gas and brake feels uncomfertable(sp). But i do think this option is needed, some people just can't use the sensetivity(sp) of the PS2 controller and others like it.
#8 - CSU1
AS this is in the improvement suggestions log I am abit lost:

In the first post by Blue-Bomber(oct 05') where he asks for the editing of dead zones, has this already been addressed by the 'Remove Dead Zones' option in one of the patches?

I was not a member of LFS at the time of that post, hence I dont know if the 'remove dead zone' feature has been added at a later date or if it was always there.
#9 - Venus
Definitely need to be added. It would be so useful to be able to define a dead zone. Currently when I go down a straight; the car constantly wanders left and right. Yes I can add -ve camber, but I don't want to slow it down.

However Blue Bomber; as I'm also a joystick user. I have managed to find a setup that allows fairly fine control of wheel.

I have analogoue smoothing set to full. Steering lock is a must to adjust, or its just too hard to control. In the FOX I set it to 10 deg (there's no needfor more than that), the most I set it to, in the 16 deg in the XFG. As for controller movement (in setup for each car), I set that when I make the setup. For some cars like the MRT, its set to 90, cause it makes it easier to control with its short wheelbase. The FOX I set to 180. I did have it at 270 for awhile but its too much. For anyone with a JS, I wouldn't go over 180.

V
#10 - CSU1
Hold on, would some kind member of our community please explain to me what on earth this thread is about?

Quote from bluebomber :The option to configure and edit deadzones from within LFS's own controller interface would literally make the thousands upon thousands of joypad \ joystick players very very happy indeed


How? LFS already removes the deadzone spikes in options/controlls/axis/remove dead zones.

Quote from BlueBomber :The default deadzone is tiny, and even the various options regarding wheel sensitivity and turn rotation are still not effective enough (especially for PS2 pad users)

What default deadzone? The deadzone specific to the gamepad you own? Is it old? Worn pads are full of deadzones(WHICH IS BAD), or f your hardware wont centre itself I would suggest using the numerous profile managrers to add some deadzone to the start of the axis as this is one of the first things you would do with any input device before putting it near any game.

A deadzone is a dead section of the full range of input from the axis, it can be noticed by a small spike in input making the axis jump eg: from 13% straight to 20% making for unsmooth input.If you add or edit the deadzones in your pad either at the start or at the end of the axis you are removing possible axis sections that could have been used for manual input.

Why on earth would you need to edit deadzones in any way other than having them removed for you(Which LFS already does by smoothing the dead zone).

@ Tweaker: The problem here is a very simple one and has nothing todo whatsoever with deadzones, lack of deadzone editing feature, or low wheel turn compression rates. Imo (and I'm not saying this in a rude way) BlueBomber has just put it all down to 'Deadzones' which I feel he and many of our community members and members to come dont understand what a deadzone is.

Please, please stop complaining about features and settings that you have not tested fully.
This suggestion on deadzone editing and the need for higher wheel turn compression values, if implimented I bet my right arm that all you will have is a bunch of gamepad users wondering why the ingame steering wheel turns at such a slow rate that it will use 50% or so of an input axis to get the in-game wheel to pass 20% lock


I am also very dissapointed that this BS topic/thread is the only reference Scawen has in the hardware section of the improvement suggestions log.

For Gamepad users at the moment the only way to find out exactly how to setup a gamepad for successful use in LFS is to go here, or if you want you just just post away in this thread about deadzone problems, WTC values too no end, and you might even have some of our 'elder' community members answer you and tell you yes.yes, thats it when both parties have no idea what they are talking about in the first place, the choice is yours as I have a pain in my rear being ignored on this topic.

Edit: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from CSU1 :why on earth would anyone use a piece of hardware on a racing simulator that is not fit to play Asteroids with?

That is not so at all. The problem is, LFS is so good at removing deadzones, for joystick users (and I assume control pad), it makes it difficult to get a dead zone right in the centre when you want to go straight. The car wanders all the time, which you are constantly correcting (slowing you down). As I said, it could be corrected with camber, but that also slows you down. What we want is a dead zone we can control. ie we want to add one, not remove it.

V
#12 - CSU1
Quote from Venus :That is not so at all. The problem is, LFS is so good at removing deadzones, for joystick users (and I assume control pad), it makes it difficult to get a dead zone right in the centre when you want to go straight. The car wanders all the time, which you are constantly correcting (slowing you down). As I said, it could be corrected with camber, but that also slows you down. What we want is a dead zone we can control. ie we want to add one, not remove it.

V

What? If you where head mechanic on a pro team in real life, would you ask the driver to go out and race with a steering column, steering wheel and steering and suspension parts made by some crap maufacturer? And would you also say "erm listen this steering setup is all over the place, we have adjustad cambers to compensate? I think not either.

Venus, why on earth would anyone use a piece of hardware on a racing simulator that is not fit to play Asteroids with?

Quote from Venus : it makes it difficult to get a dead zone right in the centre when you want to go straight. The car wanders all the time, which you are constantly correcting (slowing you down)

If your hardware wont centre itself I would suggest using the numerous profile managrers to add some deadzone to the start of the axis as this is one of the first things you would do with any input device before putting it near any game.

And about the car 'wandering', I would also suggest to keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road m8
Just to make my post follow this discussion, it about Out Limit and In Limit on Analogue Stick, and i talk of the center too.

Same Subject related Post
I'm sorry for bringing up this old topic, but..

Quote from CSU1 :Why on earth would you need to edit deadzones in any way other than having them removed for you(Which LFS already does by smoothing the dead zone).

I use a joystick as my clutch pedal. Because the dead-zone is somehow set to 0%, LFS thinks I'm pressing the clutch pedal all the time, just a bit. Changing the center of the joystick in the options menu doesn't work either. LFS somehow thinks nothing has changed, and a 1 mm move in my joystick instantely causes an overheated clutch when driving a lap. By adding a deadzone of, lets say, 25%, the joystick needs to move at least 2 cm before LFS thinks the clutch pedal is engaged.
That could be a reason for adding a dead zone
The ability to set a deadzone within LFS would have solved the biggest issue I had with my old wheel - the notch right at the centre point that made it nearly impossible to go in a straight line.
+1 from me.
Quote from Dajmin :The ability to set a deadzone within LFS would have solved the biggest issue I had with my old wheel - the notch right at the centre point that made it nearly impossible to go in a straight line.
+1 from me.

I'm seriously grave-digging here & if that's against policy, I appologize.. but I'm having the exact same problem as Dajmin. Has this been addressed somehow in the last 8 years?
Just use DXTweak2 to set the dead-zone, after that, you can forget after that issue forever (in any game).
Quote from Whiskey :Just use DXTweak2 to set the dead-zone, after that, you can forget after that issue forever (in any game).

Thanks man. For some reason the set deadzone doesn't seem to actually be affecting my input, (outside DXT itself), but I'm sure with a little reading I'll figure it out. (at the moment sleep is waay higher on my priority list/it'll have to wait a few hours )

EDIT - FWIW, I'm on Win7 Pro 64x
Well I figured out why my DXTweak settings weren't taking.. due to being on Win7 I was unable to actually save them without first making and merging .reg file. Now I've done that but as I've read many people to have found out, the latest version of DXTweak (DXTweak2) crashes upon attempt to actually save a profile in Win7. (32x or 64) Apparently I need DXTweak v4.30.229, but of course, cannot find it anywhere. :arge: If anybody has, or knows where I can find said file, I'd be eternally grateful!! (off to make a post about such I suppose)
As I said in the PM, I don't use that save option and the settings are saved anyway. It's a kind of magic? Could be, but it works for me
Quote from Whiskey :As I said in the PM, I don't use that save option and the settings are saved anyway. It's a kind of magic? Could be, but it works for me

Thanks for the PM man, was just starting a reply when I decided I'd try a reboot to see if that was the ticket, then got sucked into doing crappy hotlaps, lol. (the reboot did nothing btw, other than rule it out as a culprit) So here's the current situation: I located the older version of the file, (which had the same file name btw), and I suppose due to having completed the .reg mod/merge, can now save profiles AND close the program without it crashing.. do changes made actually affect my wheel? no. :melting: Now what?!

PS - attaching said file here, just in case anybody else ever needs it & somehow lands in this thread!
Attached files
DXTweak2 (v4.30.229).zip - 36.6 KB - 589 views
As this is what I've done, you could try it too.

If you open the program, then choose a pedal (clutch for example), and you edit the saturation, then you must see in the axes information how the red and the black arrows don't move together.

Once you have done this, close the program, it should not crash. Now you can open it again to check it's saved (or check it in LFS if you wrote a low enough number).
Quote from Whiskey :As this is what I've done, you could try it too..

Well, what I meant to get across in my last post is that the program neither crashes nor loses my settings upon save/close at this point, (since locating the older version etc), and I can see when DXTweak's open that there is indeed a functional deadzone. (by way of the arrows) Still, when I actually utilize the wheel in a/ny game, there's no deadzone whatsoever. If you're suggesting I try & accomplish my goal by way of saturation instead, I'd rather not muck with that aspect, though don't see why one setting would function outside of DXTweak when deadzone's are not. Will edit this post momentarily if it in fact does though.. (also, at this point I've got the topic going in two different forum areas here @ LFS, though don't see that as a bad thing @ this point either! :twirl Oh, and again many thanks for the assistance..

EDIT - as I expected, no joy..
As suspected, saturation settings don't take outside of DXTweak either. So does anybody have any ideas on why I can now save/recall DXTweak profiles, and my deadzone settings do work within the program itself, but don't affect the wheel within any games/outside of DXTweak itself?
Which wheel do you use? In case of a Logitech Wheel, you might have overlooked the setting to allow game to alter settings.
(don't know if you have to turn this on for DXtweak)

I don't use DXtweak, only thought this might help.
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Deadzone setup > within LFS
(32 posts, started )
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