So? Sony just bought less expensive licenses that covers no damage for some reason, maybe devs simply said "we can't do it".. If that would be true that car manufacturers wouldn't allow (in any case) damage the cars, how is it possible that it still happens in 100+ game titles?

It's just bullshit they have been feeding the fans for years. As far as I remember GT2 was supposed to have damage, then same thing with GT3 and GT4...

I have got a ps2 and i bought gt4, not expecting it to be a simulator but to be that bit more difficult than arcade racers due to some reality but it was as boring as normal arcade racers. Never played the first Forza but from people i talked to it was reasonably good fun and forza 2 looks like it could fill the hole of 'more serious than arcade but dumbed down enough for laugh with mates' I shall wait and see though.

i just posted in a forza motorsport thread in a console forum.... man, no one dears to say the game looks arcadish.
Its the best simulator overall (they say)


kids...

Yesterday I was bored so took a peek at Forza 2 forums. Someone posted about missing cockpit view and he soon got bashed, because cockpit view doesn't belong to sim and it would need zillions of interiors to be modelled. Their point of view is that hood view is more accurate and realistic

Quote from Mauni :

Yesterday I was bored so took a peek at Forza 2 forums. Someone posted about missing cockpit view and he soon got bashed, because cockpit view doesn't belong to sim and it would need zillions of interiors to be modelled. Their point of view is that hood view is more accurate and realistic

pffft thats stupid...

LFS all the way!!

Quote from Mauni :

Yesterday I was bored so took a peek at Forza 2 forums. Someone posted about missing cockpit view and he soon got bashed, because cockpit view doesn't belong to sim and it would need zillions of interiors to be modelled. Their point of view is that hood view is more accurate and realistic

Forza is not a sim really and anyone who thinks it is should try lfs, we all know that. As i have said before it looks like forza are making an arcade game with enough reality that it becomes difficult. Also the cockpit should be modelled but then with 300 + cars (iirc) would need alot of cockpits.

Well TDU done it rather successfully with 90-odd cockpits, and that more than likely had less people working on it, and a smaller budget.

Quote from Greboth :

Forza is not a sim really and anyone who thinks it is should try lfs, we all know that. As i have said before it looks like forza are making an arcade game with enough reality that it becomes difficult. Also the cockpit should be modelled but then with 300 + cars (iirc) would need alot of cockpits.

Yeah I know it's not true simulation, even if it's advertised as a "the complete racing simulator for xbox360". It's Forza's community I was wondering because of funny arguments towards cockpit view especially and their enthusiasm to that particular game, or simulation as they say.
I think that consoles lack a true simulation because of younger and more casual players. Games where you can into action quickly sell more. Same applys for PC world too, but at least there are few good simulations for PC.

Quote from Quint999 :

if you buy it thinking theyll deliver a full on sim like LFS then you'll no doubt be disapointed & deserve to lose your £40

Then why do they market the game as a sim? I have absolutely no problem with arcade racers as long as they're up front about it. I just don't understand how these people can brag about the realism of their games, and with a straight face to boot, knowing full well sims like LFS exist and make their attempts look silly in comparison.

Quote from Mauni :

Yeah I know it's not true simulation, even if it's advertised as a "the complete racing simulator for xbox360". It's Forza's community I was wondering because of funny arguments towards cockpit view especially and their enthusiasm to that particular game, or simulation as they say.

Forza players talks about which rim suits this and that car best, in PC sim forums people talk about about slip angles with mathematical terms...

Pretty much sums it up.

Quote from wien :

Then why do they market the game as a sim?

Because it sells. I think we can blame Sony for this starting to use "the real driving sim" slogan on the Crap Turismo logo. Then Codesuckers (Toca Race Drivers) and Microsoft did the same thing and here we are, "realistic simulation" has no real guarantee anymore about anything - most likely it just means it's arcade.

I wonder how aware of "real simulations" the Forza/GT developers actually are? Maybe they know exactly that they're basicly selling red t-shirts with a tag that blue t-shirt or then they simply have no idea what is the real cream of the crop.

its a different reality over the console world. Its a simulation compared to the rest they have/had. But like any other little kids, what they have "is" better than the neighbour's.

some though, play Pc games (GT legends, GPL, GTR) and claim Forza is "up" there with them...

I guess we have to play it to know for sure

Quote from spyshagg :

I guess we have to play it to know for sure

While true, the human eye (brain) is extremely good at picking out things that "don't look right", and that is exactly what I see when I look at the Forza 2 footage (and a lot of the ISI sims). The way the cars move look nothing like the way real cars move, and that has to interfere with the driving sensation. Contrast that with LFS which looks absolutely stunning in replay mode, and I'm not optimistic.