This is a bold one..

I would say one of the problems with sims is that people are given the freedom to adjust car parameters, where road cars rarely offer much if anything adjustable. I really hope that LFS continues to improve physics wise and eventually gets scary realistic.

By then I would really just take a car that has been setup / tuned to something that is more or less unanimously 'realistic'... and live with it!

Instead of having a lot of things open, something like this would, to me at least, seem the right way:

All cars:
- steering lock (until everyone uses a 900deg wheel)
- tyre pressures

Performance cars (fz 50)
- few diff settings
- few ABS settings
- ...

Something like that. Perhaps some cars like the RA have some more adjustment options; the point being that available setup options would, imho, be better if they're not or less there for the roadcars.

How about that?

Problem is, there's no ABS in LFS.

And if you bother to learn more about your car, you'll learn that even your little econoboxes have quite a few interesting and adjustable parameters OEM. Like the wheel alignments. And better springs and dampers or rollbars are just a few grand away.

You'll be surprised what the aftermarket can do to dramatically improve suspension performance with just 5000AUD these days.

I would agree there's too much atm. IMO your suggestion puts things too far the other way. For some of us there is great pleasure to be had in setting up cars, I still need something to play with. Changing springs, dampers & anti-roll bars is not uncommon for people keen on track days (ok, LFS is not a track day simulator, so shoot me)/autocrossing, as is using stickier tyres (read: road super). TBH I'm not sure what else is easy to change. Brakes can be uprated, though obv. not with the current level of precision.

I can't see parallel steer being easy to change on a road car, so I'd say fix that at 50% or something. Toe isn't too hard IIRC. Diff is not easy, but possible. Gear ratios obv. out.

So not too much needs taking out/reducing IMO.

Edit: slow, but I still said more.

+1

Then we would actually drive road cars like road cars. Probably the biggest reason why the settings are so wide now is that the physics are still so wip, that it's easier to test physics stuff? And in the other hand, for example FZ50 is really pain in the ass to drive... you can compensate that a little bit with better setup. Bug I guess when we get these settings are reduced to a more realistic level we have also better physics in general, so I guess that wouldn't be a problem in the future.

Are drifters are highly against this?

Isn't TBO class the closest thing LFS has to touring cars? I'd imagin a WTCC car has quite some adjustable variables.
Sure, the cars need the correct interior. But I'd rather like to see a nice frame built into these cars and lots of setup options than no racing frame and few setup options.

In the end the amount of changable setup variables are always up to the series' rulebook.

Vain

Quote from deggis :

+1

Then we would actually drive road cars like road cars. Probably the biggest reason why the settings are so wide now is that the physics are still so wip, that it's easier to test physics stuff? And in the other hand, for example FZ50 is really pain in the ass to drive... you can compensate that a little bit with better setup. Bug I guess when we get these settings are reduced to a more realistic level we have also better physics in general, so I guess that wouldn't be a problem in the future.

Are drifters are highly against this?

Yeah we have such diverse setup options to see how the car can perform. I would really like a limited setup range for the road cars at some point, it would make some of the racing pretty interesting, and the driving a bit more unique.... for everyone.

I am sure we will have this some time in the future, but for now, all the cars have a pretty big abundance of options, as if they had race car packages installed. Many options gradually get taken out from the garage, so more and more things will change soon enough

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

where road cars rarely offer much if anything adjustable.

what do you mean? i could go out and raise or lower my car, change the bump and rebound on my suspension, get a new transmission for it, change my tire pressures easily, add people (.. lol random i know but... it is there), change toe.. theres a ton of stuff you can do to any commute car; at the momment i think we are more limited in setups than given plenty of adjustments

I'd say that the cars in LFS should be as setup-able as slightly tuned road cars. Some stiffer springs, racing mufflers (for teh sounds!) and other similar racing equipment that you can buy for that 5000AUD (Jamexing) money for your real car. But still road-legal. All cars should imho have only one gearbox, the final gear being with couple of different ratios.

Quote from XCNuse :

what do you mean? i could go out and raise or lower my car, change the bump and rebound on my suspension, get a new transmission for it, change my tire pressures easily, add people (.. lol random i know but... it is there), change toe.. theres a ton of stuff you can do to any commute car; at the momment i think we are more limited in setups than given plenty of adjustments

And pay one million to get there.

+1
Would be very [edit][delete]cool[/delete]realistic[/edit]

not really.. maybe for a transmission yes.. thats really the only "limiting" factor really; but its not even limiting, its just the most expensive than the rest.. but you can change suspension for just a few hundred US$ which is .. really cheap, and changing tire pressure is free to .. like a few penies

if you see where im going with this, then you'd understand my logic being: its plausible.. but not necessarily possible at a cheap cost; but you have to keep in mind it is a racing game, so obviously our "person" must be rich lol to own that many cars to drive around in..

I wouldnt mind 1 car with limited (or no) setup possibilities.
Maybe even replace one of the demo cars with this one.
That way you could see if it's the best setup that wins, or the best driver.
LfS would still be a racing sim, only 1 of the cars has no setup options (except maybe fuel)

Quote from XCNuse :

not really.. maybe for a transmission yes.. thats really the only "limiting" factor really; but its not even limiting, its just the most expensive than the rest.. but you can change suspension for just a few hundred US$ which is .. really cheap, and changing tire pressure is free to .. like a few penies

if you see where im going with this, then you'd understand my logic being: its plausible.. but not necessarily possible at a cheap cost; but you have to keep in mind it is a racing game, so obviously our "person" must be rich lol to own that many cars to drive around in..

So you would buy the whole inner parts for every track/config? The point is not that you can change all the parts in real life, the point is that it is only done in real racing cars. In LFS it is just few clicks to cange the transmission ratios by 0.050 while in real life you would need to buy and change a lot parts.

So LFS is a "rich people's multi-car driving&car haxoring simulator"?

If you are racing cars like XRT, FZ50 and LXs you don't change the gear ratios (not more than once at least) because it would cost you too much and more importantly it would be disallowed in the rules.

Quote from Vain :

Isn't TBO class the closest thing LFS has to touring cars? I'd imagin a WTCC car has quite some adjustable variables.

I have always thought XFR as a WTCC type car

And about the gear ratio... I don't think (though I really don't know) that not even real GT cars have that accurate settings for final drive ratios (like 3 decimals) than we have... or what?

The weight of the FWD class is pretty far off.
The BMW WTCC car weights 1140kg, has a 2 litre engine that produces 275 hp.
The XRT weights 1224kg, has a 2 litre engine and produces 245 bhp.
Sure, the XRT doesn't have slicks and lacks a few hp, but the XFR is around 300kg too light for that class and also has only 240 bhp.

@Topic: If you want to restrict setup options then do it via league rulebooks. Technically it *is* possible to change all damper settings etc. and you can't argue against that. However it might not be senseful sometimes. This is a perfect case of "The server needs to be able to restrict setup options".

Vain

price isn't the point (else there wouldn't be a game lol the devs would just say... go buy your own race car and race it) .. if its possible it should be in the game

i mean if there were something in the game that we couldn't do, that you can do to race cars (which i cant think of any really..) then i'd be all for removing it..
like i said; it is possible, but not exactly plausible in everyday life

agreed but ONLY ... only if its a server side option (and maybe mandatory for hlvc) i love the physics playgorund lfs currently is and i would hate to see that change (and im sure at least one moderator has got my back on this one)

Quote from Bob Smith :

Brakes can be uprated, though obv. not with the current level of precision.

i personally cant really modulate a position sensitive brakepedal like the one i and most everybody else has so i have to rely on the setup to do some of the work for me

I find crap to not be able to set the damper like I want on the small cars in LFS, so I'm not for having less options illepall
For me, LFS should allow you to do the perfect setup to be as fast as the car (with its weight, tires, etc..) can be. Limiting too much the settings will force people to use even more crazy setups imo...or make the cars less interesting to be driven...

Quote from Vain :

The weight of the FWD class is pretty far off.
The BMW WTCC car weights 1140kg, has a 2 litre engine that produces 275 hp.
The XRT weights 1224kg, has a 2 litre engine and produces 245 bhp.
Sure, the XRT doesn't have slicks and lacks a few hp, but the XFR is around 300kg too light for that class and also has only 240 bhp.

Seat Leon/Toledo is a bit closer to XFR. Both Seats have 260 hp. And all the cars in WTCC are FWD excluding BMW.

LOL...how unbelieveably stupid thread this is...

thanks for the spam, and for your information it's not a stupid thread, it brings up a valid point

:\ ...not a bad idea...but a bad idea. completely destroy the experiance of LFS demo...or limit it even further to make them want S2 even more..? im finding it hard to aggree with this thread or dissagree but i love my XRT sets that i made and i would just switch between lfs versions to compensate

Bring it on. I'd like less options with the road cars - otherwise why call them road cars? Can't remember the last time I got underneath Mrs Hank's Forester and changed the gear ratios to one thousandth of a degree

If setup options were ever limited, perhaps that would make more demo users want to buy S2 so they could drive the proper race cars and set them up exactly how they want. Maybe that's why so many people stick with the demo for so long - infinitely adjustable demo cars.

There's another thread open right now about limiting the demo (by time or content or some other means) to increase S2 demand. Well, maybe if road car setup options were cut back a little it would achieve that limitation, but not at the expense of a demo user's time or content Of course, I'd only vote for limited setup options in the demo if it were the same in S2...

I never make a good set from scratch, cos I just don't know how. Instead I change (always) other people's sets to my needs (don't know any better word, sry). From Kev's LX4 SO4 WR hunting thread, biggie's first set was just horror, he did 1:49.5, but I could barely stay on track. Who decides what "locked" settings will the cars have, What kind of characteristics: oversteery, understeery, neutral or...? RudiTurbo said that he adapts his driving style to the set, but he is 1 of 30000+. After you ruin the road cars, I will have only one car left that I enjoy driving with, the UFR. If you really are after super-duper realism, just put the Force Dynamics (or equivalent) to the LFS system requirements, it seems that the G25 is going to end up there.

-1

Eek! No! Don't do it!
-1 for me. I'd understand limiting them in some form, so the precision and range decreases, but eliminating so much? Like so many others have said, it just seems kinda pointless.

What I'd personally rather see, is the diffrent cars have more realistic ways to adjust things. Not as LFS currently is, but later down the line. As is, the percise settings allow us (and the devs) to directly transfer settings into physics forumla, and ensure realism. Down the line, however, I'd rather see less percise and more realistic settings. Rather then give an exact braking force, select a grade of brake pads (such as tyres, where diffrent brake grades have diffrent wear and brake value). Rather than give an exact gear ratio, select a series of gear sizes (obviously someone will have to write up a tutorial on that, so those used system as is now [and in every other game] can learn how the real ones work). Obviously some things can be messured and adjusted IRL, just as toe and camber, so those are fine as is...

I think a lot of people would miss so many settings on the road cars, but I do agree they're a 'bit' too adjustable. Hopefully the happy medium will come along in a version before the final, but thats one thing I love about this game. It'll always get better, until its perfect.

If LFS wants to be truely realistic, then setup options MUST be limited to options that would be available in real life.

The amount of adjustment available in some cars is pure fantasy.

+1 for the suggestion (even though its been mentioned a few times before)

Dan,