its all about the SMOOTHNESS of your moves ! on mouse and whell you are turning yourself , and your fell of the car is more important than on keyboard , where you "just" must to tweak everything and press the button in correct time , its a hard work too so .. please have a respect to keyboarders
You don't get it. Different patches affects KS control. The result of that is time maded by drivers that use KS. If actual patch is good for them they can make WR. If not, they'll not make WR. Last patch is good for them. Great driver will be always great, but time made by him is immeasurable.
Maybe I'm wrong, because so many of you have diffrent opinion.
p.s. i'll say one more time: "sorry for my english"
Just for you I drove a couple of laps with XRT@Bl and keyboard no help. The best lap I got was 1.24.88 (I can post .spr if you don't believe me), which is too fast for quite a few guys. At the moment, out of 179 people with a wheel in the charts (I know, not all of them actually have a wheel), only 26 are better than that. If I had more time, I might be able to attack your 1.24.24 pretty soon. KS certainly helps compared to KN, but it ain't exactly like driving on rails. It's not like KS users use wheel for fun, and for hotlapping and serious racing they go: OK, enough of this crap, bring in the mighty keyboard. Besides, try it, if you still think it's so much easier. You know: if you can't beat them, join them.
No-aids-at-all policy isn't being broken just by M/KS users. Most wheel users use things like centre steer reduction etc. And M/KS don't have 0/1 throttle and brake. They're smoothed.
The best guy with mouse is only 0.03s slower than WR. And the only reason I beat him is because he hasn't been playing lately, so I caught up. He was always better than me by a few tenths. Mouse users don't have any stabilization (AFAIK), so he should be clearly disadvantaged to you with a wheel. I'd say a wheel still has a noticeable advantage over M/KS (for XRT@BL), and M is very slightly better than KS. And that's fine with me; wheel is better, but M/KS users can be very competitive too. I base this belief on an unofficial rank for S2 pre-alpha demo. The best mouser was about 20th position, and the best keyboarder was about 30th position, both more than 0.5s off the WR. Back then all the really good guys with wheels played XRT a lot because there were only 3 cars and one track. And the advantage of wheel over M/KS could be clearly seen. And it doesn't feel like I have more help now than before. I guess it works out well for me that the best guys with wheels are probably more interested in new cars and other tracks. And you should be happy that you have only me to beat, because if some of those guys spent a few days driving this track/car combo, they would most likely smoke me, and you wouldn't have KS to blame anymore.
When i started this topic I was thinking about something different. I know that this game is for everybody and "everyone is equal". Maybe a good driver can make the same time with KS and W. The point is that in real life NOBODY could drive with 4/6 buttons as fast as with W. Next thing that i was thinking about was: "how is it possible that nobody can drive faster then -V17- with wheel (without limitation of KS)?" Wheel has FF and full analog stearing (left/right + throttle/break), only advantages against KS"
Now I know the answer. There is no better driver using wheel then -V17- using KS. That's it!
-V17-, you are a great driver. I was racing with you few times and I don't want to say that your times are good only because of mysteriuos help system in KS.
Tell me anyway. Do you think that driving with KS is realistic as much as driving with wheel?
Ok I'll get my input on that topîc:
- kb: It's soooo impossible to drive I don't even want to know how anyone can be fast with that shit. Surely those who are got absolutely no life at all.....
- now mouse: Don't get me started on that one. IF you CANNOT beat a mouse driver, he would be good with wheel too. IF YOU CAN'T be any faster at all than him, PRACTICE DAMMIT. IT IS YOUR FAULT. My brother (Boosterfire) drives with mouse because he's not got the money to buy himself a damn wheel. He's nearly as fast as me, but in theory, with a wheel (or an equal controller in other games) he tends to be slightly FASTER than me. He's got a much more smooth driving style.
Now I assume that's probably what makes all other fast mouse drivers fast. Maybe I'm wrong, but surely practice makes everyone better, even driving with an unrealistic controller as mouse.
I don't have a wheel (can't fit one to my current desk ), so people who were good with KS and made a move to W are more qualified to answer this.
Hm, I would need a LOT more time with KN to do that. 23.x still isn't piece of cake for me even with KS.
I don't feel disadvantaged to mouse users much, really. After all, I do have a mouse and an option to use it, but I'm not very good with it.
And you may think I'm full of s*it, but I don't drive all day long. I probably drive much less than a lot of S2 licensed drivers. It's just that 95% of the time I drive the same car on the same track. Look at RudiTurbo e.g., he drove 23.8x although he probably rarely plays that car. And it took me like 2 months to be that good.
This really was done to death in RSC back in the days of S1. It resulted in a HUGE fight over many different threads and pages. There were 4 different systems put forward and the community decided on what was the best solution and then further tweaks were done to make it drivable. And after that there were many thread and pages of posts asking for the old KB system back because people said it was impossible to drive.
Current state of play is that there are fast KB drivers. But there are also fast wheel and mouse drivers. KB is NOT faster than wheel, if they are at the top of the hot lap charts it might be for the simple reason KB players are spending more time hotlapping than people with other controllers.
This might be due to the reason that controlling a car in a race situation is easier and more natural with wheel than KB.
KB pre S1E was like NFSU, now it isn't and works just fine. Do we really need to go through the fights and flame wars again?
Although this topic has indeed been done to death, there are still many newcomers to our community who will pose the question, so locking the topic would seem odd to some of them and won't help them understand what has gone before. As long as people explain the past changes and relevant discussion calmly and sensibly then I see no big problem with the topic staying active.
I'll just make a few statements so we all know where we are at with this:
Not everyone can afford a wheel so please accept that not everyone can just up and get one.
Depending on your mouse brand, drivers and settings, controlling LFS with your mouse can be a pleasure or a pain. A little experimentaion is all that is required to find the right settings for you. You can do it!
If anyone thinks that Keyboard contol is too easy ... please try it for yourself.
A person able to get WR times with Keys deserves some respect and most certainly can not be accused of something like "the computer does all the driving for you". Without a firm understanding of car behaviour and track knowledge you'll never approach WR times with keys. Despite the method of control, these guys know how to drive that car. One thing I know, they don't deserve any ill-feeling or ridicule.
For those who want keys to be easier, that is unlikely to occur. The KB method was changed in a previous build (with MUCH discussion before and after the fact) to make keys deliberately harder and this is a permanent and deliberate change.
In LFS racers can use Wheel, joystick, mouse keyboard and gamepad controllers and even multiple controllers are supported (more than one controller used at one time). Despite the "purity" of the idea of a true sim we still have the chance to enjoy this game using many methods of control and this situation is convenient for many people. If this means more people will try this game then I'm all for it.
Please don't get mad when a "purist" suggests that you would be much better off (and enjoy the sim more) using an analogue wheel with force feedback .... they are absolutely correct and are not neccessarily being arrogant towards you.
Live For Speed is being developed as a true simulator with great attention to physics detail and the actual mechanical processes of things like suspension, steering and tyre activity. The best and most realistic way to enjoy LFS will always be the method that best controls and responds to these actions - an anaologue wheel with FFB is the top candidate.
), so people who were good with KS and made a move to W are more qualified to answer this.
