I know its an old thread but thought this may help any rgt users in the future...

Master = what it says its overall strength..
Static = is the general values or curbs and what not .. static and master are very similar its hard to explain tbh I think the best way to put it is hands off the wheel static contols the sensitivity rarther than the power of all ffb say curbs oversteer and the like...

Now "dynamic" is very cool.... this contols the power that the wheel will fight you back... say you drop the back end and you go to correct it... a high dynamic will fight you to the death ...

Basicly the more force YOU put through the wheel the more the wheel fights its DYNAMIC power

Getting static and dynamic ballanced is art I carnt lie it tranforms the wheel when set right.... when I had mine I wasnt that impressed with the ffb... strong ? Yes but that doesnt mean you feel the car correctly.... it wasnt untill I did a bit of homework on what was what and played about with it that this wheel comes alive....

great wheel for the money imo, yes I had the paddles go but its a 10 min job really it is and there better after you mod it than out the factory..

The ffb is very good it just needs a litle more effort to set up its not as plug and play as say g25..

Stil got mine but about to upgrade to a t500 if I can talk the wife around lol

Quote from Dizzydarryn :

This is the difference between a quality driver like schumacher (none fans, hear me out first). He joined a team, and then built it around him, untill he was blatently dominant.

Button had the opportunity to build braw (MB) around him as his own team. Now instead, he has moved to Hamiltons team. And quite honestly, he is good, but not anywhere close to hamiltons league (this coming from a none hamilton fan)... What does he know, that we dont?

i have always been a button fan its just been hard support him over the years sitting on the back of the grid lol (not his fault mind you) so im not biatching about him here but just IMO..

i really think this whole WC has gone to his head a little, i think he's been wanting a drive like this for a while now (who hasnt) and the fame of the WC has given him that chance and he's jumped for it...

maclaren held off for some time anoucing there drivers for 2010, personly i think they had there eye on button from 09 season, after he won the WC i think maclaren just waited there time, they knew near the end of the season button/brawn talks were lumpy so they sprung on button...

nice pay/ and possibly the quickest car on the grid??? yea i think he jumped at it personly, i just dont think he knows what he is getting himelf into i really dont...

barrachelo is in no way slow, but i can imagine him being a very fair team mate, the like of lewis and alonso on the other had? there EXTREAMLY! competitive, lewis looks like butter wouldnt melt in his mouth in interviews but i bet he's a handfull as a teammate and no disrespect to lewis there, all the best drivers are like this, look at shumi/alonso...

button is going to have to drive out of his skin next season if he's going to make this pay off, and even if he does i think he's fighting a lossing battle

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Meh.

Ferrari + Alonso = Epic Win.

*runs*

Ferrari still has the best driver lineup for 2010 IMO, alonso is still the best allround package in the pitlane IMO more so than lewis in a lot of ways, and massa isnt what you would call slow ...

even with the media jumping on both drivers i think alonso/massa will work better than lewis/button, i hope im wrong but Ferrari have the edge there i think..

bad move for button IMO....

not that i dont think he's up to the task personly, i aways said button was WC material if he was given the car, but personly i would have stoped at brawn or now merc...

lewis has the plates covered and if the time comes that button and lewis are fighting for the WC in the same car there is going to be fireworks...

now dont get me wrong i love mclaren, my favourite team actualy, but brawn did an outstanding job this year with 2 drivers fighting 4 the WC, mclaren on the other hand doesnt work or think like brawn (both the team and man) and as much as i love mclaren there will always only be one driver they flood there efforts into...

button could have really made a name for himself next year i think, but now i think he wil just fade back into the background im afraid to say...

the best drivers in F1 right now are not just fast but are also able to drive around a cars faults, the best are (alonso/lewis and now possibly vitel) button is quick and i suport him all the way but i just dont see him driving around issues like lewis can and button will have to a lot of that if he wants to be on lewis's pace, as the new car will be designed around lewis, and even the most idiotic F1 fan can see the HUGE difference in driving styles, lewis likes the more aggressive aprouch and button is very smooth...

IMO button has just screwed his self, I HOPE IM WRONG, i hope im so wrong its not even funny but i think he's going to find it 10x more difficult than those dark days at BAR...

i will be supporting button though to make it work for himself thats for sure....

put it this way in 2010 we will find out what button is REALLY made of

you know it's shocking some of the comments coming out about button winning the WDC(not specificly on here but media e.c.t, how the hell can you not deserve a championship??? unless you or your team cheated that is, it's pathetic!..

if it was the other way around and button struggled early on in the season and then found his pace mid/late season to win the WDC everyone would be screaming his praises on how he brought his self into contention for the WDC and won it, but the other way around and he doesnt deserve it??

did kimi not deserve his WDC? if lewis hadnt have blown it bigtime kimi wouldnt of had a look in, the truth is kimi was there and finished with more points end of story, his team and himself was the best that year its quite simple....

there has been some good driving this year but without question button has been the best driver all season, he hasnt put a foot wrong TBH and FULLY deserves th WDC..

last race button looked awsome simply becasue he was overtaking like a man posesed, but for that to happen a few things need to be inplace...

1. track
2. slower cars infront of you
3. have a decent speed/time advantage over those infront to catch them to then overtake...

button has drove like this all season, but when the car isnt under you to catch the cars infront you aint gona look like senna on speed, its the simple rules of racing and especialy F1....

has button been lucky? yep no question but you tell me one WDC that has been won when luck hasnt been with said driver??? you just carnt win a DC if you keep getting DNF's due to others bad driver or your car keeps blowing up...

take the kimi and alonso battle (06/07 i forget which year) kimi had the faster car by a long shot and drove like a demon, alonso drove well also but his engine didnt keep blowing up on him, hence kimi lost out, its all very simple really...

im happy for button, there isnt many poeple that would stick with a team like he has, he deserves it more than most other past champions, hats off to the guys is all i say!

Quote from SamH :

I think Hamilton needs to leave a bit more of his karting behaviour and mentality behind, tbh, because it's not helping him in his F1 career. Although I didn't think it warranted a penalty, his first corner last week wasn't F1-standard at all.

I think Briatore is actually trying to appeal publicly to Alonso. The more anti-McLaren he is, the more appealing Renault will be to Alonso. Alonso despises McLaren/Dennis and Briatore recognises that.

I have this overwhelming feeling that Jenson Button is on borrowed time. I'm absolutely sure he's not champion material and I'm not sure he's really got much if anything more in him than he's showing now. I think it suits him that the Honda isn't a good car because he's able to hide behind the chassis, but I suspect that Ross Braun is wise to that and I wouldn't be surprised if Button's seat is the one that's up for grabs if Alonso jumps.

I'd love for the teams to completely reject the new engine regulation proposals. I'm betting Ferrari will win the tender and everyone else will shudder in disgust and walk away. Mercedes and Renault would surely never accept a Ferrari engine in their cars - even if it were built by them, the stigma of not being entirely responsible for their F1 car would carry into the showroom. Boasting another manufacturer's engine design in your F1 car is no boast at all, and it is simply not the way for F1 to go. It only works for Toro Rosso because Red Bull doesn't make cars.

agree totaly...

he just needs to calm downa bit thats all, and i also agree on the alonso/Briatore story to, and i hope they keep alonso, i never understood why he left in the first place but i hope he stops there cus alonso is at his best there...

button... hhhhmmmm i would still like to see him in a quick car, i duno i think he has something, but i have to agree that i think he is on borrowed time and i duno but i think ross braun knows a little bit more than me about F1, so ill shut my pie hole LOL

well as its been said on here before from some british folk.

i was half backing lewis purely because he's british ... and got half a chance, given the option though i would still like to see JB win the WDC one day but thats a different box of eggs..

the point is, now even after some of LH's silly remarks and silly race days, i hope he wins even more now and purely for the wrong reasons..

all these knob heads spouting off and the FIA playing there usual game, i just want to see there faces if LH lifts the WDC, i know, wrong reasons for backing someone, i know its bad but i carnt help it now.

its a shame cus LH has actualy gone DOWN in my book a little, but i want him to win more than ever, damnit F1 has even currupted me....

i need a hug

Quote from Smurfen :

i got something like this a while ago, but a pm on youtube after some bloke had watched drift bible lfs... basically all jibberish but it looked like he was "extremely" angry at me for buying lfs when you apperantly can download "cracked" rofl

you bad bad bad man¬!!, im shocked you payed for lfs you NoOb

lol what is wrong with the world today??? you get slated cus you paid for a product?? the people that walk this plannet worry me more and more each day now..

Quote from BlueFlame :

It just actually makes me angry, to think that it seems the FIA, or even just Mosley cannot be stopped. It's so obvious why they penalized Bourdais, they just had a reason to since they made contact, just to give Massa an extra point, it couldn't be more clear... It's black and white. Something has to be done, because it's even worse than in Schumacher days now I feel, as the drivers aren't as good, the FIA seem to carry them using unbelievable methods of promoting Ferrari drivers through bogus penalties.

blueflame, i totaly agree 100% m8 this has got out of hand now, you carnt call it racing anymore, if every time a snooker player pots a ball the ref is pulling it back out the pocket, then its no longer snooker, its just watching the other guy CONSISTANTLY get a advantage...

=-=-=-

nice to see the other drivers are showing SOME concern now, and lets hope next year will be different, i dont hold any hope for these 2 remaining races, but we will see..

Quote from BlueFlame :

The reason Bourdais was penalized was clearly for Massa to gain an extra point, this stuff makes me so angry.. It's just so obvious, we need to do something about it. If we stop watching F1 then theres a little part we can play, sure we can still readup on F1, therefore not exiting intrest entirely. I just think something needs to be done real soon to oust Max Mosely.. The fact he's a self-confessed Nazi and he's working tongue to arse with Italians is highly ironic in my opinion.. It's just a joke.. I don't understand why the teams in F1 aren't going crazy, presumably because Toro Rosso use Ferrari's engines they won't make a fuss. Which is sad. I don't know why McLaren don't complain more, the fact the team had a penalty last year was clearly bullsh*t too. Just because they have well, had more money than everyone else but Honda and Toyota. We need to put up a fight somehow, if the teams won't do it, I bloody will. I'll kill Mosley with my bear hands, I hate that man. Just his attitude.. His face. I HATE IT. Can't somebody kill this fool, where is Mr.T when you need him?

im in

common role up, role up, who wants a part of history!! , down with mosley!!!!

i will email you some plans out blueflame, you know when where and how ...

but really somthing has got to be done here, but then again where that kind of cash is involved, its a hard call

Quote from tinvek :

could you imagine the outcome if these stewards officiated at the BTC ? the race would never finish as the drivers would be serving penalties evey lap

hahahaha now that is a scarry thought

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Gizz, please: Capitalisation, punctuation, spelling? I appreciate that some people just can't spell but when you produce words like "tristian" I begin to suspect that you're not even trying.

ok ok, maybe the tristian thing was a bit bad, i actualy don't know where that come from myself ill correct that now, as for the rest, you are right im not trying, i gave up years ago m8

Quote from dungbeetle :

Yeah. It certainly looked like his poor start off the line prompted him to take a risk at T1.

No question there, he stuffed the start and lost his head, and it's been said a million times on here already, THAT is what will loose LH the WDC..

if anyone can win it, its LH..
but also,
if anyone can loose the WDC it's LH.

Quote from Intrepid :

ok I said I wouldn't post, but someone mailed me this. I shall add no opinion, but I thought some of you might want to see it

[/quote]

First time i have seen that footage and now im even more shocked..

why on earth massa said LH forced him wide when he outbraked himself and had understeer, i will never know, lewis was no where near the guy, and he only ended up in that possition because of himself...

i feel sick after watching that now, F1 wont be around mutch longer if this is going to be the norm from now on

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Please pardon Tristan, he's still riding the afterglow of Lewis not taking any points.

lol

agree 100% samh, and it looks like im only still watching for the same reasons too...

anyone who carnt see that there is some ass kissing going on here must be deaf and blind, that last race is proof that this is all not driver biased (from our side anyway), other drivers are getting caught up in the FIA sniper range..

i would hate to be in f1 at this time, you would be scared to change gear incase a RULE popped up, there going to to be nailing drivers for punchers next..

its like all this auto pit light the reds are using, with all the accidents that thing has caused any other team would have had it banned by now and rightly so, someone is gona get hurt, bad!...

its alwasy one rule for the rest and 1 rule for another and you carnt argue that farrari always comes out with the long straw, it wouldnt supprise me in the least, if spygate last year was all put up, you just carnt trust anything that happens in f1 now....

F1 suffers from the same thing that caused the stock market to crash

1. way to mutch money flying about
2.way to many greedy bastages


and tristancliffe if you can honestly say with your hand on your heart that what you have seen this season and even last season was good solid racing, then i really dont know what to say...

im all for safety im even for going green, but not letting the drivers RACE just doesnt cut it with me, i really hope lewis gives massa a real hard time in the next race, just to see what the fia will do in the finnal race to give massa the win...

i will say one thing this is going to be interesting....

Last edited by Gizz, Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:40.

Quote from SamH :

I was half joking because half of me couldn't bring myself to believe that the FIA could be THAT blatant about finding another point for Massa.

LOL im with ya there, even knowing what the FIA have been like of late i still cannot belive this has actualy happened, they are destroying one of the largest sports in the world, its no longer a sport anymore its like watching a cortroom drama, ya know sleezy laywers and all..

ya know i would be happy if the FIA would just come out and say THESE are the rules you can see driver XXXX broken the rules in XXXX case..

i find it slightly strage after a spa, drivers opinions were changing at every interview , at the start they was all saying, "i duno what ya gota do to give a possition back" then it was "there are some grey area's of the rules" Then "lewis gained a advantage"

some drivers was saying lewis was at fault right away, now that im ok with, thats there opinion, but its the ones that at the start that were scratching there heads and then all of a sudden they are like "what was lewis thinking he knows he carnt do that" well as far as im concerned rules should be there for ALL to see, and if driver's are scratching there nutboxes then somthing is either fishy or wrong..

they dont just give a driver a multi million £/$ contract when they dont know the "SUPPOSED" rules...

going back to spa for sec (i know im sorry) you read that thread now and u see a trend start..

at the start it was all about him giving back the possition to kimi, NO talk or discusion on "advantages", then the FIA press release comes out and its all talk of "DID lewis gain a advantage?" after that the fia comes out with this dusty old rule that you carnt attack in the next corner, well lewis did attack in the next corner so he's guilty right?? got him bang to rights.. IMHO NO, why?? becasue the rules either wasnt there or was veeeeeeery unclear, and this F1 FFS you know the pinnacle of motorsport..

its this on the spot making of rules thats getting my back up, why was lewis done for the t1?? what NEW rule is gona show its ugly head next?..

you have say football, a player is questionably offside, the big word here "OFFSIDE" because its a rule, ok we argue was he level when the ball was passed, bla bla bla but there is a OFFSIDE RULE!!!

now its a totaly different situation if your country looses the WC because a player was questionably offside and has a goal dis-alowed and the reff is saying "NOOO THATS WHAT I SAW FECK OFF.. yea we b1tch and moan and throw stuff at the kids for a day or 2

but what about if the ref dis-alowed the same goal and said " no no no your have to stand on your head and do 3 push-ups and shake hands with the pope before you can touch the ball in that situation, basicly m8 you gained an advantage there so im gona take a goal of ya.. its madness...

hate lewis or want his kids, the same thing stands these RuLeS that are being passed are complete rubbish, there are people on here who have followed F1 for years, im a new comer to some of you guys who have being watching it from day dot, and none of these have heard anything like this before in all those years,

when massa's engine blew up i was shouting NOOOOOOOOOOO at the tv, im no LH fan boy, but i do like to see a good race/championship, if next race they decide to nail massa for stupid dumb stuff ill be on here jumping up and down like i am every week.

ok if you dont like lewis cudo's to you and same with massa or who ever but just cus ya dont like driver XXXX dont mean what ever sh1t the FIA sprays ya have to say, "yea see i told ya he's a noob"..

what did DC say after spa? he was one of the guys scratching his head and he has a lot to do with the fia and new rules for safty and so on and he didnt get it untill the FIA waved there magic wand...

tbh LH dont even come into the last race he fecked it up pure and simple, its the Bourdais penalty thats got my back up, its just madness

Last edited by Gizz, Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:25.

to be honest i think the FIA might have just gone that bitt to far this time(who/what will be done about this im not sure)...

you see, normaly we get LH fighting for 1st or somthing and he gets done, while some are going snuts cus LH was on FIRE!!!! the others are saying "yeaaaaa lewis sucks!", and lets face it we all have our opinions, but this race was very different...

even the most hardend hamilton fans know he was a complete jerk in that race from start to finish, EVERYONE with half a brain-cell can see he screwed up big time, so this time the normal fighting between the 2 camps is "gone" its ALL DOWN TO THE PENALTYs, and 99% agree its complete crap...

the massa / Bourdais incident is even more mind numbing to think about..

the thing RACEWISE that worrys me is the fact that the FIA seem sooo tied up in this .... i duno what you want to call it that they seem to be missing some of the REALLY dangerous instances in recent races..

if they was looking at LH for how he shot out and came close to taking out kovi i would say ok fine, cus when i saw that i nearly fell off my perch (looking at it from heli cam done look so bad actualy)..

how massa's overtaking monouver while crossing the pit's white line was never looked at i will never know, and as someone already pointed out how massa got a DT for hitting LH but the rest get a S&G for pitting under a sc????

personly i dont think the FIA are even "doing" a job right now, im suprised DC hasent said somthing as he's on the way out anyway ....

the other thing which i really found strange on the day, now im saying this as i saw it, but it may just be the ITV coverage...

lewis screws t1 royaly, then the tangle with massa, up it pops on the screen "massa and lewis under investigation" ok grate 2 mins later it also pops up "lewis and kimi under investigation"...

now im probably reading to mutch into this but it was like massa hitts lewis and the FIA say we carnt let that go but we carnt hand this to lewis either... a few mins pass and they decide to pick him up on T1 to settle the score a bit more, anyone else notice this or am i smoking to mutch again ....

now forget the ACTUAL incident between Bourdais and massa, and just look at how they handled the "INVESTIGATION" WHY after the race???? they said them selves after spa, they can sort it after the race if its within 5 laps or somthing from the end, this WASNT, so why not sort it then and there???

you guys are right watch it or dont simple, but tbh are carnt stop watching just for the anticipation of what stroke the FIA will pull next... its breathtaking

Last edited by Gizz, Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:31.

Quote from dawguk :

I think that the worst thing the FIA and F1 could do at this point, is sit on their hands, and not provide the world with information, regarding decisions made this year that have affected outcomes of races.

If I was in the position of being accused of making biased decisions towards a particular driver or a particular team, I would absolutely go out of my way to make sure everybody knew I was innocent, and provide evidence to suggest this. However, everything at the FIA is suspiciously quiet. Why is this? Why don't they just stop all the speculation and arguments, and come out and make their decisions and their decision making process public? I suspect the reason is, because they would give away too much information...

In fact, the only people making statements, is drivers, and even this makes you wonder if they are being paid or "asked" to do so, because the statements are always biased towards the FIA.

you know dawguk this is what worrys me most to m8, cus i know i would do the same and i think most folks on here would to....

Gentlefoot...

i agree 100% the LH/FM incident SHOULD have been a HHHMMM situation, but yea let the guys race! this is just getting worse and worse now, i think its killed off a potentialy good season..

Quote from dungbeetle :

And I quote:

"However, the Court rejected McLaren’s right to appeal, citing Paragraph 5 of Article 152 of the International Sporting Code, which states: “Penalties of driving through or stopping in pit lanes together with certain penalties specified in FIA Championship regulations where this is expressly stated, are not susceptible to appeal.”

What a bloody stupid rule!

Caveat: My comment above has nothing to do with Hamilton's particular situation in this instance. I realise that this has already been 'done to death' here and I certainly do not wish to propogate further discussion about that.

My objection relates to the rule itself.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the stewards could genuinly make a wrong decision with regard to a drive through penalty, in which case this rule prevents any correction.

ANY decision by the stewards that is subsequently found to be incorrect should have the right of appeal in my (not so ) humble opinion.

watch what ya say m8 the FIA are listening!!

but ya right ... Paragraph "6" of Article 152 states, "

"No team or driver, is EVER to stand against the FIA becasue we are uber, and we have a busines to run so put up and shutup"

Quote from Noccy :

After a week of (mostly) ranting in this thread i think this picture fits in well.



Let's hope something happens saturday or sunday so people find something new to be appalled by.

im in that group but i p1ssed myself at that!! grate stuff

Quote from tristancliffe :

Clarifying a rule doesn't mean the rule didn't exist before. It's just a bit more obvious now, although I think it was pretty clear beforehand myself.

:doh:

QUOTE!
"In the wake of the Lewis Hamilton controversy from Belgium, F1 drivers sought clarification on what was and was not allowed during their regular Friday evening briefing with F1 race director Charlie Whiting."

just what ive been saying all along

so your telling me that all these drivers and teams throw MILLIONS into a championship and just carnt be arsed reading the rule book???

and if the FIA dusted off some parchment detailing these rules why the feck are mclarean making a stand on it??? if its there its there right???, and there is no question that LH re passed before the "next corner" so why are mclarean taking this further??? surey what your saying they havent a leg to stand on, he didnt wait 1 turn before the pass....

its not just the current drivers here its all the oldies, who all kow a tad bit more about f1 reg's than us, and they are asking the FIA "what is the rule here"..

im sorry this bullshit, why as this taken a week??, if its been clear for so long and even tristancliffe knows why didnt the fia come out in a news confrence THAT DAY and say look you ass hats this is the rule now shat-ap b1tching..

i find is amusing that the PINICLE of motorsport has rules thats its participants dont fully understand while throwing millions into the sport..

this is the biggest pile of horse shit ive seen since back beauty ate that indian curry, and ya know whats even better they WILL get away with it

Last edited by Gizz, Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:27.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

For all those who enjoy the odd conspiracy theory and wear tin foil hats.....you may like this weeks sniff petrol.

what a read that was!!! , i better go change now as i think ive slightly soiled myself.... grate find mackie

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I'm not a Hamilton "fan" (I'm a Williams "fan"), but even I think he was robbed (and the fans were robbed - all F1 fans). My opinion is that if he did gain an advantage by cutting the chicane, he gave the position back adequately afterwards and in any other circumstances weather-wise Kimi would've been able to defend his position at the next corner. He would've been nowhere near Rykernen in La Source if Kimi hadn't braked so much earlier than Lewis did - the only reason he made the pass there was because Kimi simply couldn't keep him behind, regardless of what happened at the chicane.

The other thing that sticks in fans' throats is that if the stewards are going to insist on handing out penalties to the absolute letter of the law, they should've given Massa a drive-through at Valencia the week before. It's this kind of incongruity that causes all the anger.

couldnt put it better...

Quote from xaotik :

However, the reason he was right behind him - as has been pointed out and debated to death - was exactly because he cut the chicane. This is sort of like the proverbial chicken and egg debate, however it's mostly about cocks and balls it seems.

EDIT:
And a little bit of wisdom by DC:

Quote from xaotik :

Originally Posted by David Coulthard
"At the end of the day this is a sport. There are a set of rules and regulations, and the race track is defined by the white lines. In Monaco you don't cut corners, you hit barriers.

"You can argue it was not Monaco, but the driver would have respected the corner if there was a barrier there. Lewis knew there was no barrier so he cut the corner.

"He did not need to go across there particularly, he did because he tried to go side-by-side with Raikkonen and Kimi squashed him in that position. From a driving point of view you have to look at the white lines as barriers."

thats grate DC but we see lots of drivers "go outside the white lines" and not get nailed for it, thats my problem, but because a red car and a mclarean were involved its rule book time..

and yes i will argue its not monaco simply because kimi would not have squeezed LH like that if the is a wall there, we see this "sqeezing" quite a bit and brundel is always saying that "you just know as a driver where you can get away with it"..

so if it WAS monaco and kimi did do that it would be clased as dangerous..

its easy to look at it from the LH point and say "he would not have done that if there was a wall there", but lets look at it from kimi's side, that squeeze would look completly different to if there had been a wall there, and im not saying kimi did wrong "there" as no one is going to get killed in the proccess.

Mackie the staggie

i understand what your saying, and your right its a whole differnt mess, but what the FIA are saying ( ithink lol) is its not as simple as just "giving the position back" to rid your self of any blame, ok fine i dont make the rules but what IS the rule, you carnt just say on the day you had a advantage..

now if the FIA was to come out in 10 mins with a statment and telemetry proof that says technically LH had NOT given back the position,

OR

he did give back the position technically but was still on the gas to soon (before the pass took place) then i will rest my case and say sorry to the fia, but none of this has been said or even hinted at, THAT i find strange...

what ever happened AFTER the pass was made is pretty mutch irreleavent becasue how do you judge and how do you expect the drivers/teams to to define the advantage...

ok try this, get 2 cars in LFS give one the advantage lift off and give the position back, now if that position is given properly then the "advantaged" car CANNOT have any UNFAIR advantage its impossible scientificly, the only advantage you can have is getting more grip and getting better exceleration from your drive wheels (witch LH had), so what we are saying is mclarean have been nailed for having a better car in the wet and this is what this comes down to..

what the FIA are saying and some on here are saying is that LH gain more on KR than he would have if he had followed him through the chicane right?? number 1 i dont think so "IMO" LH was out excelerating kimi by far, so there wouldn be mutch in it, but for the sakes of argument lets say there would have been, The fact is THIS HAPPENS cars leave the track, and if "giving back the possition" is not enough then what is.. what are you to do????, you carnt just say "DONT LEAVE THE TRACK" and therefore no rule, if so we wouldnt need ambulances ready because we would just say "dont crash"

my understanding of a sports rules are to cover all eventuality's, not make em up as you go along

Last edited by Gizz, Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:07.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

in fact if you agree that point 1 is valid, you should be jumping up and down at any cut chicane. "If you do the same as you always have, you will get the same as you always got".

correct that is what im saying, if we are to have rules at the "pinnacle" of motorsport they should be enforced "ALL THE TIME" weather it LH that cuts a turn or kubica, it should be enforced at all races at all tracks and to ALL drivers, and not when the FIA feel like going on a power trip..

my second point (should have been the first point )the FIA should give us (or at least) the f1 TEAMS! the reason for the penalty, and not some half soaked reason "lewis gained a advantage", ok HOW have you come to this conclusion??? and more importantly can they outline what a driver is to do in the future in the same situation?? pull over count to ten and then go? WHAT IS THE RULE!!!!, simply saying you canot gain a advantage is not a well outlined rule imo...

massa in the pits, would you deny he gained a slight advantage by leaving to early??? well if he had be released properly he would not be so close to the car infront would he???? its still an advantage no matter how small so how do depict the two??...

"EDIT"
millions of £ go into a f1 team and im sure they would like to know whats ok and what is not, 1 point can make or break an f1 team, all we want is the RULES!!!! there are so many grey area's in f1 right now you need a minors hat to watch.

i find it strange that charlie whiting thought it was ok (the guy who oversee's every f1 race and countless other formule) //// Pat Symonds arguably the best guy in the padock both at his work and for being so strait, all thought it was ok?? countless retired race drivers are scratching there heads and all everyone keeps saying is "he gained a advantage"

so all im asking from the FIA is a strait REASON WHY... then outline what other drivers should do if the situation happens again, how do you make sure you have NO advantage...

then ENFORCE the rules everytime! so when this does happen we all say, "oohh FFS lewis do it right", you simply dont see that the whole reason we are all here asking these questions and discussing this is because the rule book is fubar and so is its enforcement

Last edited by Gizz, Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:19.

ok although rules are a pain in the rear-end every sport needs em or it wouldnt be a sport, i have no problems with that, but the (ma)fia do tend to push these rules in strange ways.. ok lets look at this from a RULES point of view...

you carnt cut a corner/chicane
Ok many of you will say its more complicated than than that, its if you gain an advantage.. ok granted, there are few turns on the f1 callender that are "cuttable" and you dont gain an advantage, the general rule of thumb is that you cut a corner, you inevetably gain some sort of advantage, weather or not you take a posission in the process is not the point, you gain an advantage.

so what i want to know is why all shortcuts are not punished in the same way, after all they are the rules!, we must follow them yes? so why do so many go unpunished, and im not JUST talking about the red cars here im talking about the whole pack, many times i see a car "cut" and gain a small advantage but because said driver is not in a BATTLE and not really close to any competitor the infringment gets thrown out, but the advantage still shows on the stopwatch non the less and more importantly A RULE WAS STILL BROKEN...

a video already posted on here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM shows a grate one..

yes there are many differences to sundays events if you dissect this, but RULE'S were broken here, so why no punishment???

so please dont give us this "RULES ARE RULES" crap, the FIA push them where they feel the need its as simple as that..

this football thing gets pulled in a lot, that 1 ref see's things different to another ref on different days, number one thats why we should have dedicated marshalls in f1, but yea we see the same rule broken in 2 different games with different outcomes, but its decided on the fecking pitch, then we all leave and b1tch and moan in the pub afterwards, go home and wait for the next game..

you carnt sit there and tell me that MS would be 7 times WC if the "RULES ARE RULES" idea was followed...

last thing, the FIA cannot even give a REASON for the penalty, because with the all this media frenzy going on, if i was the FIA i would say "look this is what happened and here's proof" but saying "lewis gained and advantage" just doesn't cut if for me, we need to see HOW they came to this decision, but as yet we have no released info on this, and if we did and the fia was abviously correct mclarean would have no option to take it on the chin...

so yes i agree "rules SHOULD be rules", and not "one rule for one and another rule for another" end of

Quote from dawguk :

I have a very strong view on this, but it's not my place to judge, as I'm not qualified enough to say who was right or wrong in this case. HOWEVER ...

Here is something that a certain German driver did a couple of years ago, and it went unpunished. I think it's a fair comparison to make ...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

Decide for yourself

OMFG LOL lets send it to the fia and see what they have to say, lol thats so lame it hurts... and yea near a carbon copy of sundays evenst too...

=-=-= i was just watching replays again and ya gota give it to the gerry's they know how to build a race track, possibly the best on the callender

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

There is nothing in the rules about letting a driver past you making you immune to the rules. You must drive on the track at all times. If you don't and you gain from doing so then say Hello to Mr Penalty.

that would mean about !4! 25 sec penalties a race then