It's really interesting how the 'general opinion' pejoratively sees atheists as the annoying people who try to convince others that they're right. From what I see and hear, it's rather people with religious beliefs that feel attacked by atheists, and try to defend their beliefs, often rather angrily.

If there's someone they should feel attacked by, it's other religions before atheists. Atheists just tell them: I don't believe in a god and I think you're wrong. People with different religious beliefs than them will say: I believe in X god(s) and you'll go in hell for not believing in that/those god(s) too.

I really find it kind of amusing that each religion predicts doom for non-believers while there's so many religions on earth. If you assume that the religion X is right and that it predicts doom to non-believers, there's probably a couple billion people to go to hell anyway.

Anyway, I'm an atheist, and I don't want to piss off people with religious beliefs: I've done it in the past and it usually brings no good. However, I do find it hard to have a constructive talk about religion between people with and without religious beliefs. I mean, is it possible to actually talk about it without trying to convince the other that he or she might be wrong? Besides, when they're trying to convince the other, it's always the same thing. One will say the bible is right, the other will say there's a lack of proof.

I don't like the idea of believing in something without having some kind of tangible proof of it. Say, if everything science says was an old textbook with no evidence, I would probably not believe any of it. However, as science is stuff I can see for myself (at least in part), I find it easy to understand.

I would say: "Well, if God wants me to believe, why doesn't he just come down to me to prove me that he exists?". And they would inevitably reply: "God can't prove it to you, you have to believe". I just don't like this unconditional "you believe or you go to hell" thing. It just doesn't seem as something a 'creator' would do. Or someone that loves you. For instance, mr. Smith has never seen his mother. At 40 years old, a woman comes to him and say: "I'm your mother, believe that or go to hell". But she has no way to prove it to mr. Smith. All he has to do is believe or not believe; how will he decide? It's not rational to do so.

I just say: maybe there's a god a maybe there isn't. I don't know.

myself what im amazed is how people is willing to tolerate unjustice if threaten

when i read in the old testament you had to denounce even your familiars if they worked on sunday so they would be lapidated i could stand no more and threw the familiar book away in disgust

so the nazi god of judeochristians and muslims is accepted by fear of eternal dannation or is it by these people being nazis themselves?

why nobody raises the voice saying people is worshipping a sick god who nukes homosexuals and giants

As Stephen Fry eloquently put it: "Religion. Shit it."

ok. people... i'm sorry i ever subscribed to this thread. it really was none of my business to; it just made me a little angry to see this kind of topic. so, i'll stay out, and try to bear it. sorry about that . otherwise, enjoy the attachments (i guess).

OMG let's convert people to atheism!!one!

Why don't they just let people think for themselves and leave the brainwashing etc for the religions?

Quote from GrIp DrIvEr :

you athiests (idk how to spell that, cause i dont care) should be ashamed.

A true christian would respect other people's religious views.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Further, according to your good book the only thing that isn't forgiveable is not believing in him,

Actually it isn't that. I guess from this exerpt from the bible may help.

Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy, shall be forgiven unto men:
But the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man,
It shall be forgiven him:
But whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Matthew 12:31-32

Quote from GrIp DrIvEr :

you athiests (idk how to spell that, cause i dont care) should be ashamed. but, God forgives.

ok really. not even a christian should say that

Actually, as a good christian, he is obliged to say that. He wouldn't be a good christian if he didnt at least try to make us christians, because in his belief, we would go to hell, if we don't, so trying to convert us is basically trying to prevent that we go to hell until judgement day.

Christianity really isn't, wasn't and never will be about tolerance (even though nowadays they claim to be for PR reasons), much like every other religion (with the exception of buddhism)

when the choice comes down to either hell or spending every sunday with the born again types hell doesnt sound all that bad an option tbh

Quote from Shotglass :

when the choice comes down to either hell or spending every sunday with the born again types hell doesnt sound all that bad an option tbh

... and the knowledge that these same types go to heaven when they die makes heaven a lot less attractive.

I believe in justice and if there is a god I think he has made very sure that those right wing christians have a special place in hell.

Vain

aye... whod want 72 virgins when the slutty ones all end up in hell?

Quote from Shotglass :

when the choice comes down to either hell or spending every sunday with the born again types hell doesnt sound all that bad an option tbh

I want to go to hell just to see how ironic my punishment is. Although knowing me and my big mouth I'd give them a much better idea.

does the bible ever specify what hell is like? iirc despite being written in greek they dont seem to have had any of the same creativity the greeks had with mythological punishment

I'm hoping I'll be condemned to push forum threads downhill.

I can always count on a good laugh from religious threads.

Its 2008 people, how can anyone STILL believe that there is some over grown David Copperfield up in the clouds?

Quote from th84 :

I can always count on a good laugh from religious threads.

Its 2008 people, how can anyone STILL believe that there is some over grown David Copperfield up in the clouds?

For the simple reason that it's years of tradition, if you're born into being open minded, you'll probbably see it that way.

However, my knowledge of religion (both what I learnt during my schooling and what I've picked up on the internet and in conversations in real life), it seems that the only purpose of religious people when they enter into a conversation is to convert you; To proove that God exists, to try to brainwash you into joining the crowd.

:talktohan

Just to poke my tentacle in, the word people keep misfreakingspelling here is spelled "atheist". Opposite of "theist" which means "somebody who believes in god(s)." An atheist, in general, sees no reason to believe gods exist.

Now that we've got that out of the way...

Quote from GrIp DrIvEr :

i agree, you christian? I am! and i'll keep yelling it out even if i got shot. you athiests (idk how to spell that, cause i dont care) should be ashamed. but, God forgives. thats the cool part about him. God takes you, and helps you. so yeah, idc if you make fun of me. i m christian.

First question, what the hell is a "Grip Driver"?

Next: why should atheists be ashamed and what exactly should we be ashamed of? I refuse to feel any shame on account of someone else's standards. To paraphrase pinoykid, yours is not a very Christian attitude.

And what's that about getting shot? You seem to have an oddly paranoid view of people who might disagree with you.

Quote from kevin :

I'm hoping I'll be condemned to push forum threads downhill.

That sounds more like heaven for you sonny jim, and I think you're alrady there. It seems the divine Miss Carlisle was right - ooh, heaven is a place on Earth.

Quote from Hankstar :

the divine Miss Carlisle

I always thought Jane Wiedlin was the fit one out of the Go-Gos, until I saw how enormous a Strat looked on her and realised she was maybe 4ft tall in heels.

Thinking about it, Susannah Hoffs was about the same size. Pop stars generally were a lot smaller in the '80s.

Nik Kershaw.

Richard Dawkins annoys me more than bible bashers knocking on my door trying to tell me about Jesus, why? Well the bible bashers only come knocking once or twice a year, and I don't have to answer the door, but Dawkins is constantly making bloody TV shows and putting up stupid adverts like this. So when I want to find out why the hell America thought it would be a good idea to violate international law by conducting a raid into Syria with special forces, in which their aim seems to have been killing a woman and 4 children, I have to sit through a story about adverts on ****ing buses!

What annoys me about these discussions is the lack of balance, Those who pick God and atheist's hog all the airtime but what about the Forces Of Evil ?

Where are their Bus Adverts ?

What would be really fair would be an equal number of buses offering Eternal Damnation as an option, the Christians can't object as you must have a balance as if there is Good then there MUST be Evil and the atheists can just as easily disagree with Belzabub as they can with God so I can't see why they'd object to a bit of balance.

It's really just a lack of marketing savvy, maybe if they offered specials or discounts they'd get further. Even pointing out how boring parking your arse on a cloud for all eternity with a harp is likely to be.

Mind you, Hankstars Squid should also get a bus or two.

Maybe someone should take it up with the anti-discrimination people there ?

I think the Christians do enough promising eternal damnation already tough, what about adverts for discounted suicide bomb vests?

And your point is ....?

Quote from jervinz :

This thread is getting nowhere.

Have you any idea how hard it is to stop a thread dead like this?