Quote from SamH :

Ron Dennis isn't his uncle. I keep hearing that one too, and it's silly.

Seriously?

I dislike him for sooooo many things, but I think it would be a bit cheap and nasty, and quite poor form, for me to tear him apart publicly because of every little thing.


So I'm going to just go with - I hate him because he's got a rude head.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

LH is a god but everytime ITV interview a driver they always ask about LH its pissing me off let alone the other drivers << only thing that bothers me and its not his fault.

So basically everyone hates ITV not Lewis Hamilton.

God forbid BBC sport go on about him all the time when F1 starts next year.

I personally like Hamilton, I don't listen to him in press conferences and think he's a cocky person. I think there's a difference between confidence and being cocky. Hamilton is confident in himself as a driver and so he should be, he's one of the best - if not the best - in the world. Have you ever been at school and a new kid joined your class and could do everything better than everyone else? Let me guess all of the people apart from a few hated him for that reason - they don't like to be beaten by rookies. I see the same situation in the WDC at the moment, a new rookie has joined the sport and beaten everyone.

The BBC won't be able to, because we pay them, so they have to listen. Remember when they tried to change the Match of the Day theme tune?

I dislike immensely the media persona he puts in front of the cameras (staged, false, reading the party lines out one by one) and his perceived arrogance.

His reponse after smacking Kimi as the jacksy in the pit lane was a prime example.

He has a total lack of charisma, is a bad loser and is ungentlemanly on the track. What more? Most of his peers are of a similar opinion.

Plus I have never liked McLaren as long as Ron Dennis has been in charge, I suppose that has am impact too

A fetid w*nkstain on the Y-pants of F1

Quote from HVS5b :

Plus I have never liked McLaren as long as Ron Dennis has been in charge, I suppose that has am impact too

Yeah he's always been a source of painful conflict for me in the last ten years or so; wanting both Ferraris to violently explode, preferably in the pits where they can kill the most Ferrari employees, while at the same time wanting McLaren to lose, preferably whilst the remaining Ferrari employees are beating Ron Dennis to death with femurs scavenged from the corpses of their fallen comrades.

Every race I sit excitedly infront of the TV and it literally never happens.

Quote from SamH :

I can count 2 fanatics on this forum, for whom Hamilton can do no wrong.

I'm unsure if this blanket was covering me here, but just in case it was, I'd like to make it clear:

I am a big fan of Hamilton, and would gladly follow him around the world circuits (money permitting). However, I'm not so blinkered to think he can do no wrong. I understand as much as his big critics that he's made some pretty schoolboy errors in the last two seasons.

What I do take exception to though, is statements to the contrary of well documented truths, pit-lane rumours, Ferrari-based fanaticism, country-based warmongering or similar.

People can have their jokes about "you're new to the internet aren't you?", which I admit found amusing myself :haha:. The reality is, I'm very much an internet old-timer, have been around the block enough times to see good usenet threads spiral into mud throwing contests over the years.

I was hoping that a thread such as this might just spark some factual, informative discussion based on facts and figures. When people throw speculation into discussion, it removes a large portion of value to the discussion, as speculation has infinite scope

Quote from HVS5b :

I dislike immensely the media persona he puts in front of the cameras (staged, false, reading the party lines out one by one) and his perceived arrogance.

He's paid handsomely to tow the party line. That's part of his job. His perceived arrogance may indeed be perceived, as you say, but it isn't necessarily actual arrogance. Just perceived.

The guy is 1 race away from winning his first WDC in F1, in his 2nd ever F1 season. All well and good, as long as HE doesn't think he's doing alright. If he were to utter the words that HE thinks he's an alright driver, you'd nail him to a cross. LOL?

Nothing he does or says will make you like the guy because you think he's..

Quote from HVS5b :

A fetid w*nkstain on the Y-pants of F1

so he'll never do right by you.

Quote from dawguk :

I'm unsure if this blanket was covering me here,

tbh, yeah I was thinking specifically of you. As I said before, I'm not a fan of irrational thinkers and a lot of your posts are irrational. I suspect they're often in response to opposing irrational posts, but it doesn't make your posts any more rational.

My wife was an irrational thinker. She couldn't get her head around the fact that you need air to breathe. Irrational people are sooo difficult to drown.

Quote from SamH :

tbh, yeah I was thinking specifically of you. As I said before, I'm not a fan of irrational thinkers and a lot of your posts are irrational. I suspect they're often in response to opposing irrational posts, but it doesn't make your posts any more rational.

I beg to differ. Having said that, I wouldn't expect anything less of myself

Quote from SamH :

My wife was an irrational thinker. She couldn't get her head around the fact that you need air to breathe. Irrational people are sooo difficult to drown.

Hah! A good enough way to wrap up my "day at work"

Edit: Just noticed - you probably don't like the colour of my rose either. Pffff.

Quote from dawguk :

I was hoping that a thread such as this might just spark some factual, informative discussion based on facts and figures. When people throw speculation into discussion, it removes a large portion of value to the discussion, as speculation has infinite scope

We're limited to speculation about him because he's so rarely seen without his media face on. However I'm usually a pretty good judge of character so I'm going to go with my gut and say he's a cock.

Now, why Hamilton is a cock could potentially be an interesting topic.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

We're limited to speculation about him because he's so rarely seen without his media face on. However I'm usually a pretty good judge of character so I'm going to go with my gut and say he's a cock.

Now, why Hamilton is a cock could potentially be an interesting topic.

Beacuse he's not had to come up through the ranks the hard way, like drivers did in times past?

Perhaps because he's been deliberately influenced since age 8 to have a big ego and a lot of self confidence?

Or maybe its just a natrual part of him, a lot of successful people are nasty, bosses par example.

Quote from SamH :

He's paid handsomely to tow the party line. That's part of his job. His perceived arrogance may indeed be perceived, as you say, but it isn't necessarily actual arrogance. Just perceived.

The guy is 1 race away from winning his first WDC in F1, in his 2nd ever F1 season. All well and good, as long as HE doesn't think he's doing alright. If he were to utter the words that HE thinks he's an alright driver, you'd nail him to a cross. LOL?

Nothing he does or says will make you like the guy because you think he's..
so he'll never do right by you.

I think there's nothing wrong with judging someone who lives off the attention of the public by his public appearance. And when determining whether we like an F1 driver (or any prominent person) we basically have nothing but his appearance in the media. I think it's perfectly fair to do so, and saying you can't because his cockyness maybe just perceived is kind of ridiculous, tbh. That's how he carries himself and if we perceive him as arrogant he either is in fact arrogant or an idiot for presenting himself as arrogant or whatever. If someone else perceives the very same behaviour as just being self-confident, so be it, but that's just as right (or wrong). I could just as well interpret his behaviour as being insecure and find him cute for that.

And I personally think I can look somewhat behind the "propaganda" that any public appearance of a superstar also is and judge for myself whether I am finding that person sympathetic or not.

[I don't know if anyone is into Tennis, but Roger Federer is for me the perfect example of self confidence without arrogance or cockyness. I remember seeing him in an interview after he had just won a game saying something that came down to something like this: "Yeah, my opponent did have a very good match, but then again, he played against me, the best in the world." That didn't come across arrogant or cocky one bit.]

I heard that Lewis kicks his dog. :spike: Can anyone verify that?

Quote from dawguk :

Edit: Just noticed - you probably don't like the colour of my rose either. Pffff.

Doesn't help.. bloody catholics!

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Now, why Hamilton is a cock could potentially be an interesting topic.

I'm up for that one. I actually like Ron Dennis AND Hamilton (so far), though I know Hami's dad is a ruthless man and in business Dennis is too.

Quote from 5haz :

Beacuse hes not had to come up through the ranks the hard way, like drivers did in times past?

Errr.. my ass. The tradition in motorsports has always been that only the rich get to play. That's the GOOD thing about Hamilton.. he's got there through raw talent, not because he has a rich daddy. There are a number of initiatives to turn things around and get ACTUAL talent on the track in place of these pay-to-play drivers, and they are seriously needed. Hamilton is the product of one such initiative and he's living proof that there are viable alternatives to the way motorsports has always sourced its grid meat.

Quote from HVS5b :

I dislike immensely the media persona he puts in front of the cameras (staged, false, reading the party lines out one by one) and his perceived arrogance.

His reponse after smacking Kimi as the jacksy in the pit lane was a prime example.

He has a total lack of charisma, is a bad loser and is ungentlemanly on the track. What more? Most of his peers are of a similar opinion.

Plus I have never liked McLaren as long as Ron Dennis has been in charge, I suppose that has am impact too

A fetid w*nkstain on the Y-pants of F1

I think it was that pit incident that changed my opinion of Lewis. I think for the first time we saw what Lewis is like, he believed he did nothing wrong, refused to apologise for the incident and just basically throw the toy's out of the pan.

I would love to see Lewis however do a Shummy (no I'm not wanting him to break a leg at Silverstone) I would like him to leave Mclaren and go to a lower team, like when Michael changed Ferrari's fortunes when he left Benaton after winning 2 world championships. Ferrari at that stage were horrible (if my memory, which has since had to deal with several head knocks and even more alcohol abuse, serves me correct). Lewis has, undoubtedly had the best equipment and support to back him throughout his career so far, but could he drag a time back to the top like Schummy did?

I totally agree with you on the Ron Dennis part, he makes me punch random objects/people when he appears. Which is a problem if I'm at a pub when he appears

Quote from Gunn :

I heard that he kicks his dog. :spike: Can anyone verify that?

No but i know someone who does.

Quote from SamH :

There are a number of initiatives to turn things around and get ACTUAL talent on the track in place of these pay-to-play drivers, and they are seriously needed. Hamilton is the product of one such initiative and he's living proof that there are viable alternatives to the way motorsports has always sourced its grid meat.

Um yeah 'cept you have to pay about £6 grand a season upfront to get into them in the first place.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

I totally agree with you on the Ron Dennis part, he makes me punch random objects/people when he appears. Which is a problem if I'm at a pub when he appears

I agree theres a sort of annoying smug almost Schumacher like look to his face sometimes.

He may not be a nice person, but leading an F1 team to the most dominant season of F1 ever (15 wins out of 16 raes i think in 1988), means he's pretty sucessful, I think you have to be mean to make it in F1.

Quote from 5haz :

Um yeah 'cept you have to pay about £6 grand a season upfront to get into them in the first place.

That's all going away. Racing Steps, Red Bull etc are all aiming at no-fee entrances. They know they need to cast their nets wider than they have been doing.

Quote from SamH :

That's all going away. Racing Steps, Red Bull etc are all aiming at no-fee entrances. They know they need to cast their nets wider than they have been doing.

Good luck to 'em, how they can afford, and the risks also, theres no guarentee that your wonderful Karting star will be good when he gets in a car.

Quote from 5haz :

Beacuse he's not had to come up through the ranks the hard way, like drivers did in times past?

Heikki's first season in F1 was with reigning champions Renault.
Raikkonen stepped straight into an F1 race seat from a Formula Renault, 20 something car races in total.
I think Button had a good rookie year in British F3 before being handed a (then half competitive) Williams drive.
Just like Hamilton, their talent was recognised and they were given a shot.

At least Lewis was actually GP2 champion when he was awarded the McLaren seat. Not every Formula Renault UK champion is in F1 the following season, not even in a Sauber-equivalent team.

If that's someone's cause to dislike Lewis, they're seriously misguided or misinformed imho.

I don't like or dislike him. I've no cause to like him, he doesn't make me laugh, he isn't particularly amiable at all, but then I don't dislike him either.

Becuase he is the new Schumie.

First I liked him for his qualities and his humble apperance, then it slowly dawned on me that he is more fake than a soap opera bitch. James Allen priest of the Church of Hamilton also makes me puke.

I did not like Alonso at his peak either, but now he has proven himself to be a good driver even in a bad car and then make the bad car a race winning car. In the future when (if) Hamilton has proven he can do that, I can adminre his abilities regardelss of his fake personality.

+1 to ^^sinbad and +1 to SamH.

Quote from dawguk :

People should stick to cold hard facts, and not make assumptions or speculations based on opinion.

That's what I made this thread for. Most of the opinions I've seen of Lewis (this year anyway) have been in the midst of heated Ferrari vs. Hamilton flame wars over steward's decisions.

I wanted a bit less :arge::weeping: and a bit more :detective (maybe even some :Handshake).

I'm very happy to see that this has yet to become a name-calling, mud-throwing, flame war yet. +1 to everybody (or mostly everybody:shrug for that.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

I still can't understand how dare people mentioning him on the same level as Senna or Schumi. Be WC 7 times, and then we can talk about that.

Ermmmm Schu retired at the age of 37 and hamilton is only 23 so i think your getting abit over your head.

Quote from SamH :

I don't see much by way of fanaticism regarding Hamilton. Perhaps you see it because it irks you so much. I can count 2 fanatics on this forum, for whom Hamilton can do no wrong. Everyone else who argues in favour of Hamilton delivers their arguments with healthy substantiation.

Then I guess those 2 have formed the majority of my opinion. Perhaps that's bad perception on my part... that or damn impressive on theirs

Quote from SamH :

Nope, I wouldn't. There's a lot to be said for a bit of patriotism and I have no issue with people finding some pride in Hamilton for that. It doesn't equate to nationalism, since the British Nationalists (as an example) find nothing positive in a chocolate-flavoured F1 driver.

Patriotism, nationalism... I'm Dutch and I often make the mistake of believing words to be synomyms :P
Being proud of a countryman for a great performance is fine. Shamelessly dismissing everything he does wrong as perfectly fine, or someone else's fault, is silly.

Quote from SamH :

I'm talking realistically, not just because Hamilton flies the same flag I do. Hamilton has everything that the legends have IMO, except track time. But then they don't make castles as old as they did, do they?

Agree to disagree. I think he's just a fast guy in a fast car under highly ideal circumstances and I would love to see how he does in a bad car, and seeing how that affects his mentality and how well he bounces back from that. That's also the point I'm trying to make with

Quote :

He's in his 2nd season. How exactly is he supposed to have the history in F1?

I must've been unclear on this: I'm not talking about the history he's had so far, I'm talking about the history he didn't have. Winning is easy, and once you're on a roll it only becomes easier. Bouncing back from a losing streak is hard, as is climbing out of the mud that is a low-budget F1 team. Hamilton has done great things in his racing career, but he hasn't had to face the usual hardships in F1 and probably never will.
That's my point.