Even Bush now confirmed there is a problem. So it is already started.

I don't know what effects will be outside of USA. It will have effects, because the dollar is an important currency on which a lot of the current economy is based.

For USA people it means they can't leave the USA because their money is worth nothing. But it gives opportunities to grow again. A lot of people over here order stuff from the US because it's cheap now (that is Europe money spend in the US what is good for the US economy again). From the other side, China has that same opportunities for the same reasons and US can't compete with that (Chinese economy is growing and American economy is falling)

Quote from flymike91 :

I think this is temporary. Gas prices have already gone down to their lowest point in months (still expensive but not $4.35 per gallon) Politicians are working extremely hard to prevent recession and I think they will be successful.

The 700 billion isn't just free money to the large companies that go bankrupt, either. In return the government owns 20-80% of the company as well as all of its assets including foreclosed homes and businesses. They will resell the properties and the profits of the companies will go into the treasury. The taxpayer will never feel the full brunt of 700 billion because it will be offset by the sold homes and the government stake in the businesses.

4.35 per gallon for gass is not expensive From an outside view, i think a lot of the problems with US economy are because of people living above what they can afford. You can see it at the houses. The houses look great from the outside, but are made of wood. You have program's on tv of House Metamorphoses where people are send away for an afternoon after which their whole house is rebuilt. The house looks great, but it are only a few wooden walls (with the balcony already attached). Great house from the outside (looks great for the neigbours), but only made of wood and not very solid. It's the same with your cars. They look good and are very big but after 200.000 kilometers they start falling apart.

Quote from flymike91 :

In return the government owns 20-80% of the company

so the us has decided to pick up communism?

I don't think it's possible to prevent recession in the US, since the US is already in recession and has been for some time now. The only thing to do is try and conceal the severity of the recession by all political means available - something the Republicans are failing at with style as I type.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a run on a lot of US banks, many of which are far too small to be able to inspire confidence in their patrons. The UK's Northern Rock embarassment may be seriously overshadowed in the next few weeks. Hopefully instead we'll see more redistribution of wealth across banks, as people distribute their savings in $100K chunks to FDIC member banks. Any US bank (if there are any) that is not FDIC-insured will prolly plop very soon.

Since the Amero is only theoretical (fortunately!), Canada's economy isn't intrinsically as at risk as it could have been. There is a lot of trade between the US and Canada that will falter, and that's obviously not good, but the plus side is that the US could finish up being to Canada what China has been to the US - a source of quality goods at relatively low prices. With the US economy in freefall, you may wanna shore up the border patrols with the US though.. or ditch socialised medicine and make yourself look like a dump, else the yanks will be a-coming.

Quote from Shotglass :

so the us has decided to pick up communism?

Believe it or not, that's actually one of the reasons the Senate said no....the mind boggles. Seriously, these guys are the most powerful bunch of people on the planet and they still think it's the 1950's.

So who's gonna tell them Buddy Holly died.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

So who's gonna tell them Buddy Holly died.

Whaaaaa??? WHEN?? Thank F*** they still have Elvis!

I find it interesting that many American conservatives are quite happy with the concept of socialist ideas like the police, fire department and, say, $700 billion of corporate welfare (essentially a helping hand which rewards those most responsible for this mess in particular and in their greed & general gross incompetence stretching back at least seven years, & I don't think I'm the only one who saw this coming), but throw their hands up and scream "gaah! Commies! Slippery slope! Iron Curtain!" if anyone mentions something like free basic healthcare or decent, properly-funded public education. But it seems the bailout has been defeated in Congress, so it's a moot point. So now we can pick an easy target and, say, talk about how retarded Sarah Palin is!

In other news, I gave my favourite sock to my dog, who destroyed it, just as she always does. I demand my government fund my sock re-acquisition.

On the bright side, houses should be cheaper than ever in the US now. Time to invest (except if you are a bank)!!!

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

On the bright side, houses should be cheaper than ever in the US now.

To true. However, i can see one tiny flaw in your argument there...you see it ?

Quote from Hankstar :

decent, properly-funded public education

I don't want to be off-topic but my state has an enormous budget for education. California alone has the 6th or 7th largest economy in the world and of all the money we collect every year, 48% of that money goes to education. Yet, California has one of the worst school systems in the nation because kids simply decide not to go to school. Throwing money at the system won't make kids in urban areas want to learn algebra.

On topic the 700 bil got shut down. I don't see them coming up with an alternative but it had better be damn good.

Oh and hankstar please explain how the police and fire departments are socialist. Maybe its my poor American education but I fail to see the connection.

Quote from Hankstar :

many American conservatives are quite happy with the concept of socialist ideas like the police, fire department and, say, $700 billion of corporate welfare

How do you know?

Quote from wheel4hummer :

How do you know?

They don't call the firemen commie bastards and tell them to **** off when they come round to put out their burning house.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

To true. However, i can see one tiny flaw in your argument there...you see it ?

Explain.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

They don't call the firemen commie bastards and tell them to **** off when they come round to put out their burning house.

True, but it was apparently the Republicans who wouldn't support the bail-out. According to the Democrats anyway.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

Explain.

Err, well, if you bought a house in the US, you'd have to live there

Quote :

Oh and hankstar please explain how the police and fire departments are socialist. Maybe its my poor American education but I fail to see the connection.

Socialist as in "not privately owned and providing profit to shareholders, but "owned", administered & funded by the state through money (tax) collected from the populace". Seems the word "socialist" still raises big red flags for some even when it's applied correctly and not in a purely political or ideological sense.

Hummer, many conservatives loved the idea of that massive corporate welfare handout because it mainly benefited themselves - the owners & shareholders of the very banks & corporations which caused this very preventable & avoidable mess in the first place (and they were enabled by financial policies & legislation enacted by the current conservative government who did so unopposed until the Democratic congressional victory of 2006). They're happy to see many other institutions which were formerly state-run privatised (and turned into profit-making ventures) such as prisons, logistical/security duties formerly taken up by the military and now carried out by private subcontractors (Blackwater, Halliburton et al - which end up costing the taxpayer more money because those companies charge the government a lot more than it would cost the government to do it themselves) but when it comes to cops and firemen (and teachers, nurses etc), whose job it is to protect their property and their interests, they're happy to leave that cost to the public purse. Blackwater mercenaries don't strike for more pay, it's always government-funded teachers, police, nurses and related workers. Same in this country as well - it's never CEOs or investment bankers or even politicians who threaten strikes for more pay or better conditions; it's invariably public servants with high-responsibility and often high-risk jobs such as prison guards and the aforementioned public school teachers, nurses, police officers and firefighters, desperate for some recognition and adequate remuneration for the vital & challenging work they do. In fact, it could be said that it's the indispensable nature of their work that allows the government to continually fob them off and underpay and under-reward them: no cop with a conscience would leave the streets unguarded while he went on strike for a week, neither would an Intensive Care nurse whose patients need her.

Of course I'm not calling for full-time all-compassing socialism; just some perspective.
These rather rich CEOs putting their hands out for three quarters of a trillion dollars of taxpayer money - your money - to fix a mess they could have avoided but for their short-sighted greed looks a little, well, rich. Especially when these same conservatives (and many of their wealthy liberal colleagues - the Democrats are never blameless) bitch & moan about the potential costs of, for example, a decent public healthcare system - but then vote "yea" to spend more billions of dollars every day occupying two countries, one of which didn't even attack them.

It was a nice surprise to see this bailout defeated - seems quite a few conservatives see it for what it is: nothing but a big, expensive band-aid which can only hurt America's economy in both the short and long terms. You simply can't keep borrowing cash that isn't yours, especially if you're going to hand it out to people who in all likelihood will never return it. Very nice to see some conservatives actually being conservative

If the conservative legislation was so opposed after 2006 why did the democrat controlled congress do nothing to solve the problem in their close to three years as the majority?

The major problem that I see with the $700Billion bail-out is that the working man is going to be stuffed with the cost. Maybe they should really start thinking along THESE lines:

Quote from George Osborne :

If you take the risks, then you must bear the costs. If you pay yourselves sums far beyond what anyone else in other walks of life earns then be prepared to lose it when you make mistakes. I will not increase taxes on families earning £20,000 a year to pay the bonuses of bankers earning £2m

This guy (who SHOULD be our next Chancellor of the Exchequer soon...when His Gordiness and his Darling next door falls on their swords!) seems to have some good ideas.

Sorry if I missed out something written before, but can someone plese, just short, tell me why it suddently whent to hell?
Did people borrow to much money and no one can pay back? Did the oil end? Like what? Or is it just America beeing ****s as ever, and dragging us other down?

I read that $700 billion equals the bonuses paid on Wall Street in the last 5 years. Any chance of getting those back?

Quote :

But can someone plese, just short, tell me why it suddently whent to hell?

It's not been sudden at all. House prices have been soaring for a decade, a situation artificially created by the banks allowing us peasants to borrow ever greater sums knowing that it was ever higher risk as the sums of money got larger and larger, but people do need homes. In the UK one of the biggest culprits was the Halifax who made available "self certification" mortgages and over time moved as many new customers over to them as possible, and greatly inflated house prices over their real economic value.

Now some people are finding that they cannot afford to pay their mortgages, and the banks - who have spent all their profit in Dutch brothels and building big American houses out of wood - are suddenly in the situation that they dont have enough money coming in to cover the expensive lifestyles of their CEO's - so they are selling assets, which is causing the stock market to collapse.

Quote :

please explain how the police and fire departments are socialist

Before the concept of a socialised fire department people used to pay fire insurance companies to protect their homes. In London one day back when peasants smelled and didnt have iPhones, some baker didnt have fire insurance and the whole of London burnt down, so some bright spark (excuse the poor pun) said this should be a social service provided by the government, for the betterment of all, and the concept of a socialised fire service began.

The police have always been a social service, as they are, in effect, like mobsters who come round and throw you in prison for not paying your protection racket fee, more commonly referred to these days as taxes.

Quote :

then vote "yea" to spend more billions of dollars every day occupying two countries, one of which didn't even attack them.

I dont know if your media has told you this but neither Iraq nor Afghanistan attacked America.

Quote :

How many millions/billions/trillions have the West spent over the last few year in Iraq and Afghanistan and what do we have to show for it?

Lots of oil fires owned by Western companies which owing to our poor economy are slowly being bought out by Middle Eastern investors on the cheap. So um, not a lot really.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I dont know if your media has told you this but neither Iraq nor Afghanistan attacked America.

Yes, but they didn't side with Bush, which is crime enough for the neocons.

Quote from Becky Rose :

In London one day back when peasants smelled and didnt have iPhones, some baker didnt have fire insurance and the whole of London burnt down, so some bright spark (excuse the poor pun) said this should be a social service provided by the government, for the betterment of all, and the concept of a socialised fire service began.

Actually what you describe was the start of the insurance/mercenary-fire-brigade idea - not the fire brigade as a social service. Kudos to Terry Pratchett's first book of Discworld that made me look it up some years back.

Fire watches and such were set up even in ancient Rome since it had active patrols all during the night - but that was probably military controlled or something. In the Americas the idea of bucket brigades was pretty widespread from early on I'd think - both Franklin and Washington had a thing for actual organized fire brigades too (this time kudos go to the TV series "Rescue Me" for the reference that made me look it up). Makes you wonder what sort of uniform got the kink going for guys in powdered wigs.

Quote :

If the conservative legislation was so opposed after 2006 why did the democrat controlled congress do nothing to solve the problem in their close to three years as the majority?

That's the thing. It was strongly opposed - just not by the Democrats, who were the only ones in a position to affect change and roll back some of the Bush damage. Why? Because the Democrats have been spinless bastards since (and way before) 2000 - when Gore could have forced an actual recount of the Florida votes but inexplicably chose not to. The Dems don't know when they're onto a good thing and they deserve only marginally less disgust than their opponents, who caused the whole mess to begin with. Hell, just because the Republicans broke the country, it's no reason to believe the Democrats can fix it - this time around, more than ever, a vote for the Dems is a vote for minor damage control, not a freaking revolution.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I dont know if your media has told you this but neither Iraq nor Afghanistan attacked America.

Yes, true - typo on my part there. BTW "my" media is better than what passes for journalism stateside (but only marginally).

On that topic: I think the fact that many of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis has gone down the ol' memory hole. If the Taliban's involvement with 9/11 was sufficient justification for invading Afghanistan, surely the nationality of the actual attackers should count for something ... oh, but wait, I almost forgot: the Saudi royal family are a friendly theocratic fundamentalist dictatorship with shitloads of cash, oil and influence, unlike the Taliban, who were a nasty theocratic fundamentalist dictatorship, mired in poverty & with no resources and with no real ability to defend itself from a trillion-dollar military empire. Although, until 2001, Bush & co seemed quite happy to talk with them about using some of their real estate for a certain oil pipeline.

Quote from xaotik :

Fire watches and such were set up even in ancient Rome since it had active patrols all during the night - but that was probably military controlled or something. In the Americas the idea of bucket brigades was pretty widespread from early on I'd think - both Franklin and Washington had a thing for actual organized fire brigades too (this time kudos go to the TV series "Rescue Me" for the reference that made me look it up). Makes you wonder what sort of uniform got the kink going for guys in powdered wigs.

Those private Roman fire brigades would turn up to a burning building and cheerfully offer to put the fire out - for a hefty price. If the building owner couldn't pay, the building simply went up in smoke.

Alternately, the firemen would offer to buy the building from the owner at well below its actual value. Once they'd bought it, they would either put out the fire in their brand new building or let it burn down so they could build something else on their new vacant block of land.

That's why we need socialised & publicly funded fire brigades, police force, nursing & public school teaching staff etc - the crap pay & conditions and the constant fobbing off by their governmental employers ensure that only people who actually care about people & want to save lives, protect property, preserve the peace & educate children take those jobs

Where I live, the fire department is completely funded by donations and staffed by well trained volunteers. Weekly Bingo games, 50/50 raffles, personal donations, and (here's the American culture coming) gun raffles are what funds our fire departments. It costs the tax payers nothing and it costs you nothing unless you volunteer your donations or participate in the fund raising events.

The US isn't all big cities and big money, you know....