Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

So by definition you are saying that ALL professional drivers are better than ALL amateur drivers? Sorry I disagree, that’s simply not true. There are many people out there that call themselves professionals and make a living off certain projects. But that alone does not make them efficient in their jobs.

He was talking about sim developers not racing drivers.

Quote from ajp71 :

He was talking about sim developers not racing drivers.

I think it carries. In all things, the most innovative and extraordinary achievements are driven by passion - paid or not.

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

So by definition you are saying that ALL professional drivers are better than ALL amateur drivers? Sorry I disagree, that’s simply not true. There are many people out there that call themselves professionals and make a living off certain projects. But that alone does not make them efficient in their jobs.

While I agree that being a pro doesn’t make necessary make you any better at you’re job, I do believe that there will be a point where the amateur developer can no longer keep up with/produce the quality that would equal in overall term’s what the pros can knock out. Whether we have reached that point I doubt it. The amateur developer has for a long time been unable to keep up with the big boys, but can still produces classic niche market games (such as Sim-racing) at little cost to the customer, with Iracing I believe we are seeing the first genuine attempt to convert real life racing, (i.e. sanction bodies, organized league’s etc) into computer gaming by a major developer on a level that initially and potentially is very deep. It’s a bold move, and unless they get everything right including the price, that may be a bold move too early.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

I do believe that there will be a point where the amateur developer can no longer keep up with/produce the quality that would equal in overall term’s what the pros can knock out.

we have now reached a point where the amateur independently develped games are much much better than anything the big guns can come up with... after years of almost nothing from the amateurs

Quote from Shotglass :

we have now reached a point where the amateur independently develped games are much much better than anything the big guns can come up with... after years of almost nothing from the amateurs

Apart from LFS, there does'nt seem to be many independt games which could rival it's big market counterparts. Even then, comercially speaking, the big boys wins hands down and whether we like it or not, money is what make the world tick. It's all a bit relative about what you are wanting from a game really, wether it's a serious sim racing, or 20 minutes of mindless blowing the crap out of everbody and everything.

For me two prime examples of both great independant and pro develped games are LFS and COD 4. Each in their own way great, but with one common thing...playbiltiy. If Iracing has this then it could be a decent attempt.

EDIT: due to the nature of independent games, I may be unaware of brilliant games; it was a matter of luck that I stumbled upon LFS to be honest.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

EDIT: due to the nature of independent games, I may be unaware of brilliant games; it was a matter of luck that I stumbled upon LFS to be honest.

same here, I believe I was looking for Forza2 videos, then I saw one of those enchanting little LFS slo-mo movies. Forgot about it, then remebered again in Dec. 07 and never looked back. Luck indeed.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

Apart from LFS, there does'nt seem to be many independt games which could rival it's big market counterparts.

i cant speak for anyone but me but id much rather play a clever but maybe a little rough round the edges indy game instead of quake 23 doom 6 or far cry 4... or most everything the biy guys thow in our direction
the great thing about indy games is that they are the last refuge of game designers... true designers not people who just copy paste whatever another company did

to get you started:
http://www.tigsource.com/features/games1-10.html
http://www.igf.com/02finalists.html
and not exactly independent but made by a smallish team lead by one of the guys that came up with monkey island so if its anything but brilliant id be suprised (havent had time to really play it yet)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co ... punctuation/2-Psychonauts

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

EDIT: due to the nature of independent games, I may be unaware of brilliant games; it was a matter of luck that I stumbled upon LFS to be honest.

Yeah this is unfortunate.

Armadillo Run is a seriously fun peice of work that I would never have known about if KidCodea hadn't brought it up a long time ago (obviously since he's gone... unfortunately gone).

the indy game im looking forward to most is fez... i really hope it makes its way to the pc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVwoTR5kWCQ

The new iRacing footage on sim racing tonight looks pretty dang impressive...

http://blip.tv/file/957906?fil ... SimRacingEpisode17607.wmv

Quote from Shotglass :

the indy game im looking forward to most is fez... i really hope it makes its way to the pc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVwoTR5kWCQ

I know it sounds stupid but I couldn't find what format it is currently being made for?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Armadillo Run

Thank you for mentioning it! It's seriously good.

Quote from Technique :

The new iRacing footage on sim racing tonight looks pretty dang impressive...

http://blip.tv/file/957906?fil ... SimRacingEpisode17607.wmv

Presumably the Radical coming out the pits must have been another car online, doesn't really look like they've got rid of some of the N2003 online issues like the over excessive visual movement you saw when another car lifted or changed gear online which is disappointing.

Quote from ajp71 :

Presumably the Radical coming out the pits must have been another car online, doesn't really look like they've got rid of some of the N2003 online issues like the over excessive visual movement you saw when another car lifted or changed gear online which is disappointing.

Can you elaborate on that? I'm not really familiar with N2003... I didn't see anything excessive. The car coming out of the pits took off a bit harshly but that could have been the driver just releasing the clutch too fast.

LFS on the other hand has lots of funky movement. For instance, in the starting grid, cars are flopping around like they're on hydraulics...

Quote from ajp71 :

Presumably the Radical coming out the pits must have been another car online, doesn't really look like they've got rid of some of the N2003 online issues like the over excessive visual movement you saw when another car lifted or changed gear online which is disappointing.

Looks more like it's going over a bump.

That problem in NR2003 was only on downshifts wasn't it?

Quote from DarrenMarsh :

Looks more like it's going over a bump.

That problem in NR2003 was only on downshifts wasn't it?

I didn't think he was talking about that bump. IMHO, that's why I thought the video looked impressive. I thought that huge laser scanned point cloud was going to be more of a marketing thing because the tracks would be too large/memory intensive if they went into such fine detail. But the radical was bumping around a fair amount on the track

Quote from ajp71 :

I know it sounds stupid but I couldn't find what format it is currently being made for?

hm cant find the info either... but iirc ive read/heard somewhere that its developed for the 360 atm

Quote from Technique :

The new iRacing footage on sim racing tonight looks pretty dang impressive...

http://blip.tv/file/957906?fil ... SimRacingEpisode17607.wmv

Youtube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=J5307LwrEOM

Haven't been following this thread (so maybe old) but there was also another video that shows little bit of gameplay:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Upg6XSVvbmQ

Cockpit view segment @ 1:45. That iRacing guy sounds reeaally slimey btw.

SRT at insidesimracing.tv has the 16min iracing preview. Looks and physics are nice, but its too expensive for me and its restrictive in how and where to race. You better start with your friends or you wont race WITH them for a while it seems.

Quote from SpikeyMarcoD :

Looks and physics are nice, but its too expensive for me and its restrictive in how and where to race.

Exactly my impression after trying it.

Looks are good, Physics are very good (still cant feel the tires as well as i can in nKPro or LFS though), Tracks are very good. (but I've just tried Eastern Creek Laser for rFactor and that feels just as good, and although he didn't pay to do it, from what i gather the price would be a lot cheaper than it's costing iRacing, and ultimately the customer for their laser scanned tracks. iRacings may well be of a higher fidelity, but that is completely wasted on anyone who's never driven, and never will, the tracks in reality. ie: 99% of people)

...and no, i don't mean it's expensive as in breaking the bank, but in relative terms, and for what it offers at the moment, it costs too much.

I have doubts about it being a bottomless pitt.

Quote from xaotik :

In a world where people believe that a god's kid can be born by a virgin woman after being commanded to do so by a lily-bearing angel, I find it hard to accept that you find it hard to accept.

fair point

Quote from The Moose :

Exactly my impression after trying it.

Looks are good, Physics are very good (still cant feel the tires as well as i can in nKPro or LFS though), Tracks are very good. (but I've just tried Eastern Creek Laser for rFactor and that feels just as good, and although he didn't pay to do it, from what i gather the price would be a lot cheaper than it's costing iRacing, and ultimately the customer for their laser scanned tracks. iRacings may well be of a higher fidelity, but that is completely wasted on anyone who's never driven, and never will, the tracks in reality. ie: 99% of people)

...and no, i don't mean it's expensive as in breaking the bank, but in relative terms, and for what it offers at the moment, it costs too much.

if it's not right for moosey, it's plain NOT RIGHT!

Quote from StableX :

if it's not right for moosey, it's plain NOT RIGHT!

Hehe, not really true. Just doesn't suit what i want from the whole package point of view, which is a damn shame because the sim part is top notch, no doubt about it at all.

Has it changed your top sim list. Where does it fit between LFS and nKar Pro. Sim-wise i mean!