Ok 
Could it be? Did they just break the self sustaining feedback loop of silliness? Hold your breath, I think we just became witnesses of an historic event...
Don't you start!!! Besides, whilst Andy and I have settled up, there is still the explaination from the other guy (genuinely, I am sorry, but I can't remember your username), who states that controls change so much over races, that braking in a racing car is different, and that racing seats aren't supportive enough. Once he's realised that controls don't vary (noticably), braking is the hardest thing to master, but the technique is the same, and that when racing you have a nicely supporting racing seat, then I'll be totally happy.
Anyway, I'm off to the pictures to watch a film about robbing a bank. Or something. Cheerio.
Anyway, I'm off to the pictures to watch a film about robbing a bank. Or something. Cheerio.
Ok - we'll just check this thread tomorrow and watch it oscillate some more.
Okay. No point posting though if you're not going to contribute to the thread. People can post about how they wished they didn't have to read my post all they like, but it won't shut us up, and by doing so they've read my posts anyway. Put me on ignore if you don't like it, and ask people not to quote me. Problem solved and we can all be happy little unopinionated munchkins where everyone is right, and there is no such things as losers. Or babies, as they are commonly known.
Not directed at you xaotik. Or Andy.
Not directed at you xaotik. Or Andy.
You have a point.
1. Agreeing to disagree and backing down or rolling over are two completely different things. But if you really think those two are basically the same or even remotely related, it would certainly explain your inability to do the former.
2. There's nothing wrong with discussing what you believe with people. Calling other people's beliefs "rubbish" however, is plain rude.
3. Unfortunately, being stubborn and bossy, does seem to get you more respect with quite a few people, than being mature and realizing that there's a point where further discussion is pointless. Simply letting the discussion rest and not replying anymore is much too often interpreted as a sign of having run out of arguments and therefore being the "looser" of the argument. Often very wrongly so.
Grow up, Tristan.
My topic is not the american presindentiel ,
No change basic subject
No change basic subject
if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle........
I think your reading to much(extra words) into Tristans posts.
that'll be all
*backs out slowly*
Hi.
i have one question: I always thought brakes can overheat in racing cars. I'm sure australian v8 cars overheat if driver is not care. Correct me if im wrong
i have one question: I always thought brakes can overheat in racing cars. I'm sure australian v8 cars overheat if driver is not care. Correct me if im wrong
I think it's more historical. There were some very significant improvements in the last 30 years or so, and I think mid-to-late 90s the improvements were pretty well exponential. Basically, the overheating brake egg was once and for all cracked with ceramics and such stuff. That's entirely from memory and from watching motorsports on TV, though, and could be completely wrong. I don't think brake heat is a problem in race cars today though.
The otherguy nisskid probably fell asleep at his keyboard as it would have been about 3am at his last post
I have an off topic question for you tristan, in the aussie v8 supercars they have, like most race cars, a number of adjustments that the driver can adjust and also futher adjustments that a pit crew can adjust. What factors besides tyre wear, fuel load and track condition would cause you to make an adjustment?
I'm pretty sure I recall hearing that atleast one driver was making brake bias adjustments on the fly for each section of the track at bathurst, I'm guessing that would be for the uphill and downhill sections.
If it's only tyre wear, fuel load and track conditions that would be the primary reasons for adjusting setup (ARB, brake bias, etc) then from your knowledge which one of these has the greatest impact in real life and would cause you to need to adjust on the fly?
I was in a pick up race the other day 53 laps and was on a setup I knocked up in the qualifying session before the race began. With that setup I was in the top 4 out of a field of 10 or so and times were close. During the longer race though the car balance changed on me alot, was well balanced for the first 10 - 15 laps but then my lap times started to drop until I was unable to put in a lap time that was within 1.5 sec of what I could do consistently at the start
I believe it was my tyre choice and the way the tyres heated over time that caused it. Basically went from a nicely balanced set to an understeering dog. I should of realised what was happening more quickely and adjusted the ARB on the run 
I wish in the future we can setup so that brake bias and ARB etc can be adjusted by POTs, that would be great for when I build an sim cockpit 
They still do very occassionally but only when the track conditions are extreme, the most common problems you see in the aussie v8's is tyre problems. Flat spots, and delamination.
id claim thats one of the reason why watching racing has become so boring
Yep that along with endless full course yellow safty car periods, endurance racing just isn't what it used to be
it's more like a whole bunch of sprint races now 
im not wasting my time trying to argue with you anymore, its clear that from what ive seen and what others have said about you that its not going to go anywhere. looking at how you talk about brakes tells me pretty well how little you really know and how you cant seem to grasp even the most simple concepts, and with the seats, how you just change your argument to something not even relavent, i talked about racing the XRT in LFS, and how ud have to compare that to racing a stock car like the XRT in real life, u said the stock seats would cope, now ur saying that they would only cope with its application aka driving around the streets, how the hell is that relavent?
seriously, i could keep poking holes in your argument all day, but your just going to respond with some reply that will just infuriate me at how much you have either missed the point, or simply just chose to ignore anything ive said and make up something urself.
ok, anyone else want to have a proper discussion? lol
yeh, that image from before about not going to bed because someone on the internet was wrong came to mind. haha
seriously, i could keep poking holes in your argument all day, but your just going to respond with some reply that will just infuriate me at how much you have either missed the point, or simply just chose to ignore anything ive said and make up something urself.
ok, anyone else want to have a proper discussion? lol
yeh, that image from before about not going to bed because someone on the internet was wrong came to mind. haha
I don't mind multi-posting when you're fast and furiously discussing things, but I think you could make an effort now. I've cleaned up for you before. Show some respect for the forum, and post once addressing multiple posts.
(nisskid)
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by nisskid : tidying shit up
actually the question was stupid, because there are so many variables that he didnt discuss that would dramatically affect the result. the personality was just one, this would affect how the driver would use the information they have learnt. without this extra information its hard to make a proper answer. and even so, the question didnt really touch on my argument, i never said that LFS wouldnt help, i said that it they wouldnt be able to transfer all their knowledge straight from LFS to real life, and be a awesome driver their first day out.
maybe in F1 and open wheelers, the braking issues dont become as apparent, but youve got to understand, the weight these cars have is nothing, they run massive brakes, massive ventilation, high tech brakes, this makes it a hell of a lot easier to over come brake heating issues.
in full car racing, the most popular type of racing, they have to stop a lot more weight, now as i tried to explain to ur friend, bigger mass means a few things, most relevant here being momentum, and grip levels, more weight going in a direction, means it needs more force to stop it, more weight pushing the tyres to the ground means the tyres have more grip. this means the tyres are able to take larger loads of force, so the braking force can be a lot higher, unfortunately this extra grip and braking force is canceled out by the fact that there is more momentum to wipe off, so the brakes still have to be under load for longer periods of time. this means that the brakes are braking with more force, aka the pads being pushed against the disk harder, and longer. this means a lot more brake heat.
in modern day racing, overheating and failing brakes are still a very apparent issue in full size car racing, especially in divisions where there are rules and regs regarding brake restrictions etc. hence why you see big ducts made to feel cool air to the brakes.
alright wait up, its just i see a post, reply, then see another one later and reply to that. im in a hurry too, was meant to leave for our local drift comp like 20 mins ago lol
I think you don't actually know what you're talking about, tbh nesskid. That's the honest truth. I think you're just stating what you THINK MUST be the case, as if it were fact. I don't think you've anything to back it up because I don't think the position is defensible. Brake overheating is not something that happens in normal racing these days. People kit out their race cars with brakes that are adequate for the job, and there's no technological reason for that not to happen. Only irresponsible behaviour, exceptional circumstances, or numbnuts taking their roadcars to trackday with sub-par parts on their vehicles.
tell that to the v8 supercar drivers exeptional circustance are fairly common here They have even gone to the extent of water cooling brakes on the v8's and some are hitting higher than 900deg C and yes they are suffering brake fad towards the end of the race.
Have they considered losing some fat off those things?? Are they a bit backward in that championship?? If brake fade really is a genuine issue in V8 supercar, then okay.. but it really ISN'T supposed to be an issue these days. There's got to be something wrong with the make-up of that series, surely? Not being funny or anything, but have they tried alternatives to wrought iron chassis? 
[ed] posted primarily in jest.. I've enjoyed the V8s when I've seen them screened over here.
If brake fade really is a genuine issue in V8 supercar, then okay.. but it really ISN'T supposed to be an issue these days. There's got to be something wrong with the make-up of that series, surely? Not being funny or anything, but have they tried alternatives to wrought iron chassis? [ed] posted primarily in jest.. I've enjoyed the V8s when I've seen them screened over here.
I would have taken it jest anyways
Yesterday the incar temps were arround 60deg C for the drivers, they use dry ice machines for cooling there racing suits, ontrack temps this morning hit 40deg C in the F1 qualifying so you can bet the bitchaman was around 55+ deg C, things can be abit more extreme here than what you would call normal in Europe
When they race in Hidden valley Darwin they often have issues also, and a few other tracks are also very tough on brakes and tyres.
As I said extreme conditions are what we consider normal here
Why would you damage your car if you are a good driver?
This is completely opinionated, but I always thought that racing required a good hand-eye co-ordination. Of course, I am not a racer, nor do I even have a wheel for Live For Speed. (just yet.
)Its also a complaint in rally racing.
Ive heard modern F1 drivers complain of "long pedals" too. I don't think its as non existent as you make it sound.
Sure we have the technology...but race cars aren't built above and beyond what they have to be. Expense, complexity and weight have to be taken into consideration so not every race car is strapped with all the brake cooling possible.
You may not see people flying down runoffs with no brakes...but braking performance is effected through a race, The drivers just have to compensate. And Ive still seen plenty of races where one team or another is complaining about brake temps.
It depends. It's all about balance and predictability isn't it. If your car is understeering you could play with tyre pressures at the next stop or soften the front anti roll bar. Perhaps even raise the rear ride height to adjust the roll couple. The thing about cars is that there is no one correct way to adjust for something - everything has a knock on effect, and it's a case of driver/engineer preference as to how each problem is tackled.
Yes, gradients change the required brake bias when you're pretty good. I personally tend to find a bias setting that works for the track and leave it there. Most of the time the bias setting works at all tracks. That's the difference between professional drivers and mortals though.
I've not done very long races, but I'd imagine the fuel load can make a big difference depending on where the fuel tank is and how sensitive the car is to ride heights. Tyre wear is fairly limited, but tyre temperatures have a huge effect. Even in my races it's not uncommon for one end to 'go off' before the other requiring changes of line, adjustments to bars on the fly and that sort of thing. Track conditions do change too, but you need quite big changes to feel it (or be a very very good driver). Wet racing is an obvious example, where you might consider softening a lot of things.
AS you can see, it's quite hard to think of changing bar settings whilst driving. But it would probably have helped. Softening the front bar would change the front:rear ratio of load transfer, reducing it at the front and hence increasing grip by reducing the load difference between the tyres.
You can't race a stock car in real life. LFS would teach you how to drive that sort of car - how it handles, how it recovers, which tyres wear, and how it responds to setups. But in real life you'd have a racing seat, so that's not up for comparison. At all. Ignore the interiors of cars in LFS as they are not representative of a car used for racing.
But I think it is you that have missed the point. You seem to think that because LFS has road seat in the XRT that you'd only be able to learn anything about a real life XRT with road seats. And I think that that is twaddle.
You've also missed the point of the comparison. Lets say the SAME person in alternate realities. They have the same personality. The same abilities. The same reactions. In one reality he learns how to race in LFS, in the other one he learns how to race in real life with limited track time. In which reality does he do better.
Actually, you DID say that LFS won't help at all, and that non of the skills are transferrable. Which is why I'm still here typing. If you admit that LFS can and does teach you a hell of a lot of the principles of race driving then we can finish here.
Forget about high end professional series. Stick with grass roots because that's more relevant. Ever watched, say, Club MX-5 racing? When did they have braking problems through heat? What about equivalents of the Clio Cup? Nope. When you start to push the envelope a bit, like in F1 or Aussie V8s then you are going to reduce the thermal capacity of your brakes as much as possible to save weight, to reduce unsprung weight and so on. Beginner racing (and please don't forget this is what we are talking about) does not have braking issues if the car is vaguely sorted properly. Curing excessive brake heat is easy if you are willing to carry a bit more weight or spend a bit more money.
But they are going slower in the first place. They generally don't need more pad clamping force. The change in momentum isn't vastly different. It really isn't (at grass roots racing, which don't forget we are talking about, not F1 or DTM). In fact I'm not convinced you really understand how brakes work.
Name one series where braking is a problem and the annual budget is less than £15000?
In F1 of course it is. Grammes make a difference at that level. Whereas any single driver on this forum would not notice a 1kg change in unsprung weight. In F1 they run the thinnest discs they can. They are limited in brake size by sensible wheel and tyre regulations. They trade off brake cooling for ultimate aero efficiency (again, something no one here would be able to feel), and work 'on the edge', with minutes factors of safety (relatively). It is not fair to compare braking technologies in F1 with the sort of braking someone going from LFS to real life would experience.
Simple Question : LFS = REAL LIFE ?
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