I have been playing LFS for a few months now and have loved it.
However when im going round Aston or Blackwood i just wish that i could drive an FXR round Silverstone or Spa, or Theglen anything really.

I feel that its a real disadvantage that LFS has against Rfactor and GTR
Im not sure what the costs are about building real tracks in games i know there is a fee or major tracks.
However there are so many tracks for Nascar 2003 and Rfactor that people have made themselves and surley they dont have to pay anyone for it.
I realise that the developers really dont want the source code or the net code to fall into reivals hands and i understand that. but if they could create a track building programme this would be a huge boost to the game.
I have got a lot of my fellow sim racers into the game but the sceptics play the game and ask "are there any real tracks" i awnser no and there is a sigh from them like well thats it then i'll go back to Rfactor or Nascar 2003 etc

So first do all real tracks want a fee if they are put into the game or just the major ones?

Second would it be possible to build a programme that will let people do tracks without revealing LFS secrets?

what do you guys think and know on the matter?

rfactor has the same amount of real tracks as LFS has real cars, afaik.

Yeah like this one

And these
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/RF/downloads/4607
this is my point they are not major tracks so could LFS stick them on for free

well, those are both unofficial addons with a quality of design (especially the Nordschleife) which are way below, what i call "buyworthy". rfactor itself hasnt got real tracks, except one maybe, and the PCC-Mod is called mod, because it's a mod, and not original content of the game. So please stick to the facts, or write it in other words:
e.g.

Quote :

rfactor is cool, cause you can use addon tracks, which you cant in LFS

got it?

BTT: I love a very good fantasytrack more than a WIP Mother which is quality wise below GPL-releaseyear standard.

ive played Rfactor at a freinds a lot not liked it as much as LFS
i never said it was cool that was a lie!
you must agree though if they can build tracks for the game like Brands or The Norris ring for free it would be a bonus

I don't really understand what all the hype is about real tracks. We're still racing a simuator and the experience is the same right? As long as the physics etc are great I don't really care where I run the cars. Real cars would be higher on the priority list in my books, and that directly affects the experience more than a track would because the virtual car is what's responding to your interactivity. Either way though, the physics is what makes a sim for me regardless of the skin on top of it.

Quote from Simon Savage :

you must agree though if they can build tracks for the game like Brands or The Norris ring for free it would be a bonus

are you sure you want such bonuses?
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9988/charade212qq.jpg
http://forum.rscnet.org/attach ... d=342047&d=1136933280
http://forum.rscnet.org/attach ... d=341665&d=1136807546

Well, real tracks are real tracks. Having some "small" and "unknown" real tracks would fit perfectly in LFS. But I guess they need more work than building a fantasy one. And which one to have?

One way to have good quality in addon tracks would be to make it frustratingly (new word) hard to use the editors and get the track running. Like the way you make tracks for GPL. N00bs can't handle it but skilled track makers can make miracles with those

Quote from Hyperactive :

One way to have good quality in addon tracks would be to make it frustratingly (new word) hard to use the editors and get the track running. Like the way you make tracks for GPL. N00bs can't handle it but skilled track makers can make miracles with those

Or implement some kind of system to LFSWorld that a new addon track needs a authorization from the devs to get it run online. Or something. That would keep the quality very high (maybe too high).

The "oh my god how the hell do you do this" factor works well in GPL's case, as only the most dedicated fans can be stuffed making tracks for it. It's a long, painstaking process and a right PITA That being said, the count is now (with only about 10% fantasy tracks) +400 :O Also, every last tool and utility used by GPL track (and car) editors has been created by fans and not released by the game's producers, so it's very much been a labour of love (or obsession) by the community.

Maybe, one day in the future, the LFS devs will release mod tools but it won't be soon, that much has been made clear. I'd love to see tracks like Lime Rock, Falkenberg, Adelaide, Bathurst, Brands Hatch etc in LFS but LFS is still a WIP. I would much rather see LFS completed before any mod tools are released IMHO, that is more important right now than real tracks or the ability to include them.

Slightly OT: I've also heard that rFactor's popularity is being adversely affected because there are so many mods out there and only a few are of high quality ... but I don't play rF so that's only what I've heard..

The point of having real tracks is obvious... you get to race on the same tracks as the ones you go to in the real world. Plus, if you ever do get to track your real car, you could practice first (get to know the track anyway). It won't make the racing any better or worse, that is definitely true.
I miss having them, but would not sacrifice the quality of the tracks we have now for more "real" tracks.
This is dreaming for sometime way in the future, but there are a lot of tracks that get used for regional SCCA events here in the US. It would be cool to have an SCCA module with a bunch of those tracks plus some of the car models used by the SCCA. (Please don't get me wrong, I am very satisfied with what we have now. )

Of course this has been discussed many times in the past. The dev's are on the right path now and these discussions are not going to change that anytime soon.

Real this and real that. If someone builds blackwood does it make it any better?

To me it's just a matter of design, doesn't have to be built since it doesn't improve it. Hermann Tillke makes worse tracks (boring) than Eric anyway It's the same thing with cars, I doubt that someone drives MRT and RA exclusively just because theyre real?

Sarcasm aside, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the true classics (because of the design, not because they're real) though but it's not that big deal to me.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Well, real tracks are real tracks. Having some "small" and "unknown" real tracks would fit perfectly in LFS.

if they are unknown then whats the advantage over fantasy tracks?

lets be honest if someone had changed the scenery surounding blackwood (is that right name?) and told you it was "tchyzchol race way" from eastern russia most of us wouldnt have a clue

posssibly given the one name that keeps coming up, what we do want is the ultimate challenging circuit, 14 miles 147 corners up and down ideally set in a german forest.

now im sure this could be developed given time as a fantasy circuit but do you really want to spend 7 mins on one lap, imagine if you have a first lap shunt, crawl 14 miles or go direct to pits and be about 1/4 hour behind

id have thought a fantasy track about 6 miles long with the more famous parts of that other track copied would be better and the same could be done for other tracks eg how about "slitherstone" a large, wide mostly flat track with very fast bends and 1 mickey mouse section, "copewell perk" a smaller version of our 6 mile fantasy track with lots of gradients, " seconda railway" fast track, sandy run offs with a very wicked "corkscrew" type corner, you get the idea

Maybe the Fifth gear crew could give the rights to use their test track for free, or some small amount of money.. I really love their test track, and it would be great for comparison with the show..
If it's up to me, i would like LFS to stay closed for any kind of addons and modifications, till S3. Even then, i wouldn't like to be totally opened. I would prefer that Eric do one real track, say every 4, 5 months, and charge it how much it takes( to cover licence price) because man is brilliant. I would really pay the amount of money as much as comunnity agrees on, for Eric's version of some famous track.

Quote from deggis :

Or implement some kind of system to LFSWorld that a new addon track needs a authorization from the devs to get it run online. Or something. That would keep the quality very high (maybe too high).

That would require way too much effort from the devs, imho, of course.


Getting real tracks would just add to the experience. Driving XRR at AS4R isn't just as nice as driving XRR at Keimola or Bathurst could be. Mentally.

It is the same thing you can have when you are watching an F1 race for example. You can see that the drivers take the same line in that one corner as you just did few hours ago in your sim. It would be just nice, add to the experience.

...And that would allow us to compare some physics and stuff between LFS and RL.

don't see what 'real' tracks has to do with anything myself. Quality tracks however, that's important. Each to their own I guess. Knowing I'm simming on a 'real' track design doesn't aid my experience in any way, it's all racing.

Real stuff isn't vital at all, but racing at Mt Panorama in XRRs would just rule

I think for S3 LFS should do the same as with it's cars. Take existing tracks and move parts of them into the game, just too few to be lawsuited to hell .
There are so many great corner-combinations, tricky turns and interesting sections out there that it's a pity LFS has so few of them.

Vain

a horrible tought flashing by:

(there's no real track because we would find out how the REAL physics and the simmed physics differ.)

huarrr (frightened)

How would real tracks help you find that out? Cars don't respond differently on different tracks...

That's the main reason I'd like to see a real track in LFS: comparison between the sim and real life. Of course, this would require painstaking attention to detail not only with the track, but with the car (exact suspension geometry, tire pressure, weight, corner balancing, etc). Not to mention you would require tons and tons of data from the track. Not just insim type data, but ambient temp, wind, track temp, track surface grip at different points, dirt/rubber on the track, etc.

Even if you had a real track and car in LFS, ALL of those factors would have to be correct to get a comparison to real life.

Quote from micha1980de :

a horrible tought flashing by:

(there's no real track because we would find out how the REAL physics and the simmed physics differ.)

huarrr (frightened)

Please Micha... stop with those noncence posts please..

Real tracks won't improve my LFS experience one iota. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

I'd just see RL tracks as a bonus. I won't be disappointed at all if SEV decide to stick with fictional tracks or not release any mod tools - I have no skill in that area anyway The stuff we have now is great! Any game that can keep my interest for nearly 3 years - despite my tiny attention span - must be doing something right

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Maybe the Fifth gear crew could give the rights to use their test track for free, or some small amount of money.. I really love their test track, and it would be great for comparison with the show..
If it's up to me, i would like LFS to stay closed for any kind of addons and modifications, till S3. Even then, i wouldn't like to be totally opened. I would prefer that Eric do one real track, say every 4, 5 months, and charge it how much it takes( to cover licence price) because man is brilliant. I would really pay the amount of money as much as comunnity agrees on, for Eric's version of some famous track.

That would be easy to do by the community. All we need is a huge car park.