Dont know if it has been suggested. We do already have the option to force cockpit view (i am not a friend of it, you know that), but if we have that option the next consequence should be to have the server-side option to disallow F9 and F10 screen (maybe some things from f12 screen as well)
I mean you cant really see how thick the rubber is when you are sitting in your cockpit or exactly see how the damage is, you can only feel the difference of it in real life

What do you think?

i think this option should be in the hardcore mode if it ever gets implemented

I like the idea of it,it would mean making pit stops ealrier just to make sure of the tires instead of racing till theres 0.04mm of rubber left. I use the F9 screen say everey 3 laps on a longish race just to make sure that the battle im having with another player isnt killing my tires too much.

good idea +1

+1 good idea

Quote from Nobo :

the option

nice.

on the other hand: the damage-indicator doesn't tell you that much anyway... it looks as if, but it doesn't. in race it goes "something's wrong, I gotta pit"

I usually have it activated during the first lap to find out who hit me a bit too hard .

oh yeah, almost forgot. talking about damage & repair: having the option to choose if there's any repairing in the pits would be very helpful too.
I mean, it's really annoying to have your car repaired and lose time although the damage didn't slow you down at all.

What about having the option to disallow all the HUD and instead sending the car's telemetry to an other team member (and maybe voice chat inside LFS without 3rd party programs)? I think it will really help in team races.

- 1

I don`t like the idea, but on the other hand you got a point with that it`s not realistic to be able to see tyre wear or damage.

Good idea as a server option. This could make quite a big difference for endurance based leagues, but even in general it's probably more interesting to have to actually concentrate on how the tyres are behaving, instead of looking at F9 and immediately knowing if you can push more or should ease up.

All this should really be part of the (often requested) hardcore mode.

Yup +1 as a server option from me, infact F9/F10 mode should be removed all together, except in the pits.

Forcing cockpit view was just adolescent bollocks, but this is a good idea. psychometalist's idea is interesting too - would really extend the notion of teamwork within LFS races.

+1 on server option (enabled in pits). Especially in Road cars where you would never have that info to hand.

Makes sense for multiplayer. I'd miss it too much for tuning sets in single player though, so it's fine by me as a server side option. Would certainly add a new element to league racing.

Why not just force SHIFT+F?

I quite like SHIFT+F mode myself, means I can concentrate on the race instead of getting distracted by all the other information. I'm usually faster with all the HUD stuff removed.

Quote from Not Sure :

i think this option should be in the hardcore mode if it ever gets implemented

I thought LFS was a simulator, not an arcade game? There should be no consideration for a 'hardcore mode', it should be that way, period, no option.

All those arcade displays (including map and laptimes) should be removed. They were present in Mario Kart, and of course, that was a sim.

Cars that warrant such displays (GTR spec etc) would have them displayed within the likes of a Motec display, but I guess until the Austin Allegro speedos etc are removed from the GTR cars, people will bitch about not knowing their times and other things.

I don't think LFS will ever be a "hardcore sim", merely a complex arcade racer with decent tyre physics.



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Bob Smith :

Makes sense for multiplayer. I'd miss it too much for tuning sets in single player though, so it's fine by me as a server side option. Would certainly add a new element to league racing.

I agree, would be a nice option for multiplayer. Removing it entirely as suggested somewhere in another post would not be good. One of the nice things about sim racing is, it is just a game, and I like to gather as much info for league strategy in as little time possible since I'm not a professional racer racing in real life. Thus, it is needed in single player/non forced servers so you don't have to run thousands of laps to get ready for a race.

Quote from Ian.H :

I thought LFS was a simulator...

Well, I guess you could remove all HUD elements and arcade stuff, basically only leaving the hardcore mode and forcing it down everybody's throats. The only small, almost negligible downside to this would be that LFS' userbase shrinks to about nKP size, but I guess that's just another minor inconvenience the true hardcore racer has to overcome.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Well, I guess you could remove all HUD elements and arcade stuff, basically only leaving the hardcore mode and forcing it down everybody's throats. The only small, almost negligible downside to this would be that LFS' userbase shrinks to about nKP size, but I guess that's just another minor inconvenience the true hardcore racer has to overcome.

Then I guess it depends on what you want to code.. an 'online racing _simulator_' or an 'online racing arcade game'. I thought LFS had been branded with the former, maybe I need to recheck the web site..........

The smaller user base wouldn't matter to the devs though, as we're told so often, they're not in it to make money, but for the enjoyment of development. So at least that part would be ok. The user's likely to disappear would be lossless compression, I'm sure.. much like firewalling Asia.



Regards,

Ian

Well yeah, like I said: just do it the nKP way and hope a generous sponsor takes pity, because the amount of users you'd have left would definitely not be able to pay for your living costs. Last time I heard ScaGeViEr would love to be dependent on someone else, especially if that someone has the final word about what happens when.

E: Since you added the last paragraph while I was writing, no money is NOT the main force behind LFS. However that doesn't mean it would work without it. The sales of LFS are fortunately good enough to make the development path of LFS possible. Alienating a big part of your user base because you decide to force something instead of providing it as an option sounds like a really good idea. (Yes it is ok for small things like the reset modes, but not for such an elemental part of LFS.)

Imho, F9 and F10 should go and be replaced with proper telemetry in cars that would have such equipment in real life. There should be no option to show damages/etc as hud options or not. It is pure arcade and needs to go as soon as the hud gets updated. Go away, permanently, vanish, disappear, be replaced with better system.

Personally I couldn't care less if someone can't drive a car in LFS without knowing his tire temps all the time, without being able to check the car's condition after every bump and nudge.

EDIT: There is a loon loong way to go before anyone can say that LFS is anything close to hardcore. To my standards, nkp isn't hardcore either. Being hardcore is a chance for me, not a limitation as a lot of people see it. Being hardcore doesn't mean expensive either. And just to add, being hardcore isn't racist either, lololol

Quote from AndroidXP :

Well yeah, like I said: just do it the nKP way and hope a generous sponsor takes pity, because the amount of users you'd have left would definitely not be able to pay for your living costs. Last time I heard ScaGeViEr would love to be dependent on someone else, especially if that someone has the final word about what happens when.

E: Since you added the last paragraph while I was writing, no money is NOT the main force behind LFS. However that doesn't mean it would work without it. The sales of LFS are fortunately good enough to make the development path of LFS possible. Alienating a big part of your user base because you decide to force something instead of providing it as an option sounds like a really good idea. (Yes it is ok for small things like the reset modes, but not for such an elemental part of LFS.)

Of course it wouldn't survive without monetary funding, we both know that.. I was just stressing (pedantically?) the point as that's often used as a line of "defence".

Everyone is happy to take the piss out of the likes of GT being marketed as "the real diving simulator" (don't get me wrong, it's about as far from being as sim as you can get, well, GT2 at least, the last version I touched).. but that's no less funny than LFS' claiming to be a racing simulator either, when it's full of arcade features. Sure, it simulates tyres pretty well, but it's not marketed as a tyre simulator.

It's like car manufacturers building cars that'll top 160mph, and then installing a governor to restrict them to 85mph. 160mph+ looks good on paper and to prospective customers.



Regards,

Ian

IMO it should be a server option to enable F9/F10 and F12. IMO F9/F10 should be scraped by default seeing as no racing team has that information avaliable IRL and the fuel replaced with a more realistic warning light than accurate read out.

Look Ian, I agree with you that LFS'... err, lets call it "simulation of racing" (as in how things actually happen in real racing, including all the procedures, the atmosphere, certain restrictions to what is possible, etc.) is pretty lacking, mildly put. However your stance of not allowing options (no separate hardcore mode, which btw is always only referencing to misc/HUD options, not physics), would mean that both sides could never be satisfied - it would always be a compromise with an inclination to the group that provides most of the monetary base.

I think realistically the hardcore mode is the only way LFS will ever be what some of us currently want it to be, because I'm pretty sure LFS will never completely ditch either philosophy in favour of the other. Being able to quickly and quite arcadely jump into races without much hassle is simply a vital part of keeping a healthy userbase. So provide the option and make both sides happy, or stick to the compromise that keeps you alive and accept that neither or only one side is satisfied.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Look Ian, I agree with you that LFS'... err, lets call it "simulation of racing" (as in how things actually happen in real racing, including all the procedures, the atmosphere, certain restrictions to what is possible, etc.) is pretty lacking, mildly put. However your stance of not allowing options (no separate hardcore mode, which btw is always only referencing to misc/HUD options, not physics), would mean that both sides could never be satisfied - it would always be a compromise with an inclination to the group that provides most of the monetary base.

I think realistically the hardcore mode is the only way LFS will ever be what some of us currently want it to be, because I'm pretty sure LFS will never completely ditch either philosophy in favour of the other. Being able to quickly and quite arcadely jump into races without much hassle is simply a vital part of keeping a healthy userbase. So provide the option and make both sides happy, or stick to the compromise that keeps you alive and accept that neither or only one side is satisfied.

Is it not then, false advertising? Is that not similar to me writing an application and slapping a big hologram in the corner of the site page / physical box saying 'vista ready!' only for someone to buy it, install it and find that it'll load, but won't save settings as I set the data dir to be a subdir of $ProgramFiles?

Granted, I'm stretching this.. but so many here seem to think that you can't get better than LFS for realism, but in truth, there's more realistic already out there and has been for quite some time (although some of the alternatives don't have such good tyre physics). I'm not saying that the more realistic doesn't also have some arcade features (I think most race games have a stupid HUD mode) but LFS really isn't the "cream of the crop" in regards to realism as so many here would love others to believe.

Most here seem to want more and more realism.. yet in the same breath, whinge and bitch about certain "convenient options" being removed (or set as forced server-side options). Amusing, no?



Regards,

Ian

Quote from AndroidXP :

Look Ian, I agree with you that LFS'... err, lets call it "simulation of racing" (as in how things actually happen in real racing, including all the procedures, the atmosphere, certain restrictions to what is possible, etc.) is pretty lacking, mildly put. However your stance of not allowing options (no separate hardcore mode, which btw is always only referencing to misc/HUD options, not physics), would mean that both sides could never be satisfied - it would always be a compromise with an inclination to the group that provides most of the monetary base.

I think realistically the hardcore mode is the only way LFS will ever be what some of us currently want it to be, because I'm pretty sure LFS will never completely ditch either philosophy in favour of the other. Being able to quickly and quite arcadely jump into races without much hassle is simply a vital part of keeping a healthy userbase. So provide the option and make both sides happy, or stick to the compromise that keeps you alive and accept that neither or only one side is satisfied.

How does it make LFS so hard if the F-damage is removed and F-tires replaced with proper telemetry/setup options? Hardcore mode should not limit how easy it is to get into LFS, get online and race against others. The minimap is accetable as is the names over the cars because they are there to be replaced with proper spotter, for example. There are things that happen in LFS but don't happen in real life and therefore there needs to be some sort of considerations what extra is needed. But I can't see how F9/F10 have anything to do with getting more real. The damage hud needs to go. It is totally unreal and useless. The tire temps hud is just a wip, there is a way of doing it more realistically and elegantly without making it too hard or cumbersome. It just needs thought and implementation.

Hardcore mode won't solve imho anything. People want options, not some rigid set of rules. But if you give too many options every server will run with slightly different rules in extremem cases. That doesn't mean single options for different features shouldn't exist. It means that that option to turn something on/off should be avoided everytime when there is a way to make it work without any options. F9/F10 is exactly like that. The way it is done now is wip and imho wrong on so many levels. It doesn't mean that it gets any better if you give an option to turn it on/off.

Quote from Ian.H :

Most here seem to want more and more realism..

...

Actually, it is more of 50/60. People want realism but don't want to change their habbits. The speedo update () was a quality example of that. People wanted the GPS speed meter back, getting the (real) speed from the tranny or gearbox was too hard

What else is out there that is more realistic? I'd love to know, because I think I've played everything worth playing out there. I must have missed one.