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As I was driving around yesterday, it occurred to me that most cars have the engine upfront (what a revelation, eh?), and when you have a crash that visually damages your front bodywork in LFS, it will most likely affect the engine in some way or another.

So what I want to suggest is that whenever you get, say, 2 or 3 hits on the front end resulting in bodywork damage (since LFS can already "detect" that), your race is over. Same could apply to the roof damage, or if you flip.

The idea/advantage here is that you don't need to calculate the effects of the crash on the entire car and each individual component. You just get screwed, plain and simple.

I realize that this type of approach could make for some frustrating racing, particularly on demo servers, but hopefully this will make people drive more carefully.

I also want to mention that I see this as a temporary "fix" and would wholeheartedly welcome an accurate damage model. But as the latter is no easy feat, I'd be willing to stick it with a simplified one for the time being.

Cheers for reading

Yes, that was mentioned in some threads...
IMO that should've been implemented a loong time ago, just like false starts "should've" been, but unfortunately it wasn't.
I bet it's a very simple code with a HUGE affect on the racing and community... Such a shame that those kind of things needs so long to be implemented...
Watching that video of new Porsche Mod for rFactor, the "damage testing" with thousands of parts flying over the track, it gets you thinking...

And yet again i am not asking for that right now, just a simple "Engine die > 30, 40 mph hard impact"

Counting the number of hits isn't the way to do it. Possibly an rF style impulse required to kill engine could be a bit more realistic and maybe if there's mesh damage into a defined collision box with the engine bay, but that too is a bit random and not necessarily reflective.

Quote from ajp71 :

Counting the number of hits isn't the way to do it. Possibly an rF style impulse required to kill engine could be a bit more realistic and maybe if there's mesh damage into a defined collision box with the engine bay, but that too is a bit random and not necessarily reflective.

Your points are all valid. In fact, I would very much prefer that something like that is done. But the whole idea of this thread is to suggest something very basic, that's simple to implement in the short term, before the proper damage model is complete (and that, I understand, will take quite a while).

You don't necessarily have to count the number of hits. You can do with just one, for all I care, above a certain threshold speed, as Boris has suggested. The point is, even something basic like this could be better IMHO than nothing (current suspension damage doesn't really count).

^^Those suggestions are very basic and easy to implement (particuarly measuring the impulse). I don't think the Devs would want to do something more basic because there philosophy is do it right the first time or don't do it at all otherwise you end up with something rather thrown together with gaping holes in it.

Quote from ajp71 :

I don't think the Devs would want to do something more basic because there philosophy is do it right the first time or don't do it at all otherwise you end up with something rather thrown together with gaping holes in it.

Ah, that argument again?
So damage is perfect now, as well as the cockpits? no, no, everything is perfect, otherwise it wouldn't be in the game

False starts are also far from perfect but it's better now than before, it's a small step to more realism and that's what we need, realistic "temporary" implementations that can be easily done..
We need people to be carefull when driving, but that's curently not the case, they know they can get away with it, you would see if they would cut those Fern Bay chicanes once the tires gets half a meter in their engine or their suspension falls off for riding those half meter curbs..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Yes, that was mentioned in some threads...
IMO that should've been implemented a loong time ago, just like false starts "should've" been, but unfortunately it wasn't.
I bet it's a very simple code with a HUGE affect on the racing and community... Such a shame that those kind of things needs so long to be implemented...
Watching that video of new Porsche Mod for rFactor, the "damage testing" with thousands of parts flying over the track, it gets you thinking...

And yet again i am not asking for that right now, just a simple "Engine die > 30, 40 mph hard impact"

link to that vid?

Quote from spanks :

link to that vid?

Here it is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bret5V85QvQ

While the crash itself isn't that realistic (there are, what, 10.000 parts there? ) and tires and parts are controlled by remote control afterwards, i think it's better than no damage at all, at least those cars don't work anymore after the crash and you can hit the fallen parts..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Here it is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bret5V85QvQ

While the crash itself isn't that realistic (there are, what, 10.000 parts there? ) and tires and parts are controlled by remote control afterwards, i think it's better than no damage at all, at least those cars don't work anymore after the crash and you can hit the fallen parts..

That's pretty badly done damage although at least it has a semi-realistic attempt at it unlike most mods, when real cars crash a thousand whole body panels don't fly into the air and then bounce down the track like a bouncy ball. He needs to sort out the mass and springiness (can't remember which setting it is) of those parts, or far better use proper mesh damage which very few mods use.

This is a better attempt at crashing 911s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... ;mode=related&search=

Quote from ajp71 :

That's pretty badly done damage although at least it has a semi-realistic attempt at it unlike most mods, when real cars crash a thousand whole body panels don't fly into the air and then bounce down the track like a bouncy ball. He needs to sort out the mass and springiness (can't remember which setting it is) of those parts, or far better use proper mesh damage which very few mods use.

This is a better attempt at crashing 911s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... ;mode=related&search=

The key parameters to be modeled in a part-to-track collision would be mass of the parts and the elasticity of the impact (=1 - elastic and the part rebounds perfectly; =0 - inelastic and it stays attached to the track). To be completely accurate, you'd need to mesh every part and use a finite element code to determine its spring constant, natural frequency, etc. This will determine how the part impacts the ground, how it deforms, etc. In other words, one heck of a computing mess.

In any case, both of the videos show better crash damage than what we currently have. But the key aspect is that after the crash, the cars are left stranded on track or in the gravel trap, whether it is by means of a damaged engine, or because the wheels fell off. If the Devs could just accommodate that aspect into the game, I'd be pretty happy.

It's hard to imagine that you could just transform the existing (crappy) damage model into something rivaling reality in one step. You have to take small steps to get there, and IMO, this is one of those steps.

Quote from Speedy Pro :

It's hard to imagine that you could just transform the existing (crappy) damage model into something rivaling reality in one step.

Save the breath, nobody listens(cares)...
We could have those things 2 years ago... easily. I don't judge Scawen, just sometimes i don't understand his actions..

GTR2 has engine stalling, i am sure it's CRAP and simple, but who cares, you let go the clutch while in gears, car jerks and stalls... good enough for me...
So people say why do we need incomplete things, well WHY NOT? I want the car to DIE when i hit the wall hard, car could easily stall, 2 days of coding.... one thing is certain, there would be a lot less City Cruising Jamaica Babylon kids driving around in indestructible cars..

It'll be done when it can be done right.

Quote from Breizh :

It'll be done when it can be done right.

Great news, thanks!

My pleasure

Quote from Speedy Pro :

In any case, both of the videos show better crash damage than what we currently have. But the key aspect is that after the crash, the cars are left stranded on track or in the gravel trap, whether it is by means of a damaged engine, or because the wheels fell off. If the Devs could just accommodate that aspect into the game, I'd be pretty happy.

Most rF mods don't do that though, these are exceptions showing what can be achieved most are LFS style crash into anything and keep on going

Have you tried RBR, technically and eyecandywise crashes are nothing that special, a bit of pre-made body damage some different textures (including broken windscreens) and some sound effects as well as the obvious suspension damage evidence. It's just the way it delivers the hole experience it really leaves you feeling like you've just wrapped a car round a tree rather than lost on a computer game, in the same way that GPL can be rather exciting even if it does have fairly stoneage graphics technology, but still looks better than rF or LFS with the better mods IMO.

Haven't tried RBR, but I used to play GTR2, which does include "damage". The wheels/bodywork fall off, engines blow (either from downshifting too fast, or due to overheat, AFAIK), tires get punctured, etc.

While it didn't feel 100% authentic, it still made me watch where I was going and how I was going. Starting back from the pits all over again, should I have a crash, didn't feel compelling enough. So, perhaps, I pushed the car less than I do in LFS (of course, can't compare the vehicles, but still), and when I was driving with AIs I also made sure I kept some room for error.

Again, to each his own. Some people don't want to see anything short of stellar damage, on par with LFS's chassis/tire physics. But for some, like me, even a small step in what we think is the right direction would be much appreciated.

Why not do it the quick and simple way. Have a bounding box defined inside the engine compartment that represents the engine extent.

As we already have car bodies that deform the test for engine death becomes a test to see if the car body has been forced into the engine space bounding box. Then any damage big enough to deform the front end beyound slight damage will end your race.

Its simple, clean and should not take much to implement. It also fits in with the current damage implementation and has room for expansion so when engines can overheat you would have separate bounding boxes for radiator and engine so radiator damage becomes possible.

No cheats or bodges just a clean easy system that is lightweight.

iv noticed that u dont get side impact damage i.e Doors most u get is around the doors there are alot of side impacts but i neva see any damaged, but i think it would be a good idea to have the engine affected in someway

I found rFactor's engine damage pretty realistic at times. In a few racing simulations I can bash the car in headfirst and get little engine damage, where in rFactor, I got a engine failure

It'd like something similar in LFS.

+1 I Agree, some sort of temporary damage code would change the way everybody drives.

also, -Speedy Pro, buy the game, it will help suport the devs in making the game better faster stronger.

Quote from legoflamb :

+1 I Agree, some sort of temporary damage code would change the way everybody drives.

also, -Speedy Pro, buy the game, it will help suport the devs in making the game better faster stronger.

I don't mean for this to sound as an excuse, but anyway...I absolutely LOVE this game, I'm completely hooked on it, and I will definitely get a license in not so distant future. It's clear to me that it's worth the asking price and all that. Money isn't the issue. The reason I'm still demoing it out, is that I don't think I'm "good enough" for better cars/better racing just yet. Yes, I'm decently quick and more often than not can hang near the top of the pack, but I feel like there's still room for me to grow as a "driver", even in an XFG. But as I've said, I will get a full version with time.

It would be nice that you get problems running on that debris also, hitting wheel at 150kph should not result only light bump sound, it should cause some damage to the car too

Wouldn't mind at all if LFS would have even this kind of poor damage: