Quote from Julppu :

Krhmm... chaos isn't actually random. It just might be complex enough

Oh, one more thing about chaos. It's generally generated with mathematical functions so it's predictable kind of same way as any outcome from mathematical function with given input.

if you are able to break a chaotic system down to the quantum physics that influence its behaviour it will get truly random (at least with our current knowledge of physics which either means that the univers itself is truly random or that quantum theory itself is a chaotic system whos input variables we can neither measure nor do we even know which one those might be)

Quote from skiingman :

Thermal noise is used in natural ways to create natural noise in hardware which is then translated into random numbers. This is the only way to do real random with a computer that I've seen used.

any real world noise is by its very nature not perfectly random

er... wierd people... i think its done now! lol

Quote from Shotglass :

any real world noise is by its very nature not perfectly random

Its as random as random can get, and a lot more random than pseudorandom generators.

Quote from Shotglass :

pretty deep ... i guess the only way to creat a random number is to find a chaotic process whos chaotic nature is a direct cause of some quantumphysical event that has equiprobable outcomes ... apart from that i cant see any easy ways to create a truly redundancy free sequence

ROFL, I dunno why, but this made me laugh a good one today

is this for what i think it is. if so, 14 and 15 lol

you have no clue rob, ha ha ha. its a big surprise

Quote from skiingman :

Its as random as random can get, and a lot more random than pseudorandom generators.

not necessarily ... using a pseudorandom generator you can easily create true discrete time white gaussion noise which is as random as it gets ... but for obvious reason such noise doesnt exist in the real (continuous time) world

Quote from ysu :

...and then find a random person to draw one! :-)

Aww but how random can a person be, once again it can be human preference Why? because you maybe drawn to more females, people with light eyes, fair skin, hair color, curves.. haha way to deep but anywaysillepall

"Numbers" and "randomness" are purely human concepts anyway, so how can we be sure they even exist? A dog, for example, has absolutely no concept of numbers.

If I write 1,2,3,4,5 - why is that not random? It is humans who decided that the sequence of characters 1,2,3,4,5 denotes some sort of order. Why isn't 5,3,9,8,7,1,65,23 just as ordered or random as 1,2,3,4,5?

Whoa, I'm going to bed.

Well if we take it into human terms and not psychology, Ill get into that later Anyways if you say "A dog" thats one dog, dogs is plural we dont know how many unless you say so. The psychodilic part is really, our brain tells us what we see, smell, hear, feel so on... not the senses telling our brain mind you, so in therory everything is made up and Im living a hallucination, kinda like matrix illepall so staying on topic, us humans make up what we perceive logically and random numbers is kinda like being perfect there is no way cause everyone has there own opinion what perfect is. Just my Two cents this hurts my brain

Quote from iannai :

A dog, for example, has absolutely no concept of numbers.

allow me to disagree as ive seen a german shepard picking up numbered pieces of foam. the dog would bring you exactly the number you asked him to.

Quote from Barroso :

allow me to disagree as ive seen a german shepard picking up numbered pieces of foam. the dog would bring you exactly the number you asked him to.

That doesn't mean that the dog can count. In fact, that one works exactly like the old magicians trick where they let kids write a number on a board and the dog tells it by barking: He doesn't actually count, but he is trained to look for subtle signs to stop barking/apporting. Experienced dogs don't even need that, as they an tell if the audience (which was counting) is about to applaude...