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Switching to RWD
(25 posts, started )
Switching to RWD
I've pretty much got the hang of driving a FWD car now - I can get competitive in the XFG and UF1 (not really tried the FX0 yet though) and now I've got my STCC Bronze, I thought I'd have a go at driving the XRG properly.

However, I'm absolutely rubbish....

I keep spinning the back end out exiting corners (even in the XRG, you don't even want to know what its like in the XRT). Is there some technique I'm missing for RWD cars, or do I just have a heavy right foot? It seems other people are able to exit corners on full or nearly full throttle without peeling away and burying the front into the barrier.
All I can say is take your time and don't overdrive the car, I was in the same position not so long back but I'm gradually getting there.
Also driving RWD car with a mouse is even harder. Hope you have a wheel.
You got to work with your right pedal. In a FWD in LFS, especially with the low powered ones, you can basically just slam on the accelerator in mid corner and the worst what can happen is that you run a bit wide your tires smoking if you don't lift off. But if you try to do slam on the loud pedal just like that in a RWD you will of course spin. It's very important to try to feel when the back is giving up and starting to slide. If it slides or is about to, lift off and change your driving for the next lap. RWDs are also very likely to spin once unbalanced, so you need to be a bit more careful with lines and be smoother than with a FWD.

Throttle control would be the key word I think.
In the XRG you can catch just about any slide with opposite steering lock and still keep the throttle planted. This isn't necessarily the fastest way around the track of course, but it does demonstrate how easy it is to control once you get used to it - there's pretty much no chance of the power catching you out (like there is with its bigger brother).

Remember that it's not possible to take most corners as fast as you would in the FWDs, so try to run at the car's own pace rather than how fast you're used to going. You'll find the speed comes to you over time if you don't push too hard.
Oh yes, forgot the opposite lock. So obvious that we need Kev to state it
Quote from Blackout :Oh yes, forgot the opposite lock. So obvious that we need Kev to state it

Glad to be of little service.

Honestly though, before I started with LFS I always thought that counter-steering was something you used to recover mistakes, not something you could use to offset throttle or brake input to stop a mistake from happening and go a little bit faster, if you see what I mean.
Driving a RWD car in a fast, balanced way is a little about unlearning the good techniques for the front wheel drive. The fast guys turn in very early and use more accelerator to drift out the back end a touch which helps swing the nose more into the corner. With the fwd this would just lead to more understeer and you will run off into the gravel on the outside of the bend. No expensive garage bills here so try it, loosen up the back and be positive on an early turn-in, give it some gas before the apex and feel the car turning in more. Too much and you'll lose the back end. Too little and you'll run it wide. A little opposite lock to straighten out as you exit the bend, gradually increasing the throttle and you're away!
#9 - nihil
Quote from thisnameistaken :

Honestly though, before I started with LFS I always thought that counter-steering was something you used to recover mistakes, not something you could use to offset throttle or brake input to stop a mistake from happening and go a little bit faster, if you see what I mean.

The way that weight shifts is more crucial in a rwd car. Rather than thinking about how much faster or slower you will go by adjusting the throttle or putting on the brakes, think about where the weight will shift on the car, and consequently how that is going to affect grip.

Same with the steering. Stop thinking of your wheel (or whatever) as the device which points you in a certain direction. In a rwd race car, the steering wheel is a corrective device. Use your brakes and throttle to steer - and then use the steering wheel to adjust the direction.

You don't have to be gentle, but you do have to be smooth. When you accelerate out of a corner, squeeze the throttle (its like the trigger on a gun - pull it and you'll just pull the barrel away from the target).... And as you squeeze the throttle, unwind the steering wheel at the same rate.
And tuning in the throttle with the applied steering lock helps a lot. The less your wheel is turned, the more throttle you can apply. People who are going full throttle out of a turn will probably have hit the apex so they have the wheel straightened out almost completely (and they anticipate the rear stepping out). Just practice, you'll get the hang of it sooner or later.
#11 - Jakg
if you wanna learn, the XRG is a GREAT car to learn balance, just slowly give it more throttle until it starts to slide and slowly start to countersteer to hold it back in line - i often go round corners with my wheel dead straight
Quote from Jakg :if you wanna learn, the XRG is a GREAT car to learn balance, just slowly give it more throttle until it starts to slide and slowly start to countersteer to hold it back in line - i often go round corners with my wheel dead straight

Hmm now that sounds really nice, it really does!
from what ive learnt driving my RWD car in real live (toyota mr2 turbo, basically same power etc as the xrt) is that u have to be alot slower on corner entrances and once youve straightend out then u can floor it. take enter the bend in a higher gear to prevent too much wheel spin or accidental power over, on corner exit change down gear if needed.
also heel and toe if ur changing down gears at a higher speed then it should be, this way it keeps ur revs high and doesnt upset the balance of the car before entering a turn.
works for me on live for speed any way lol
RWD requires more gentle driving compared to FWD cars, its good in FWD cars as well but tends to be more needed in RWD cars more IMO. Something which I found very important, especially with the XRT and XRR is that its very important to try and predict when the turbo kicks in because once you really know when the power comes in, then you can maximise throttle usage coming out of the corners.
That, and quick downshifting is not always a good idea, but can help coming around tight corners (where the high differential locking used is usually a problem).
The other thing to note (which I'm shocked that nobody has already said) is practice. If you've only just started you can't expect to be running records yet.

I really like the XRG on the STCC servers. It feels more responsive to the right pedal than the XFG, but it doesn't have so much kick that you spin exiting every corner. You just need to realise that you can't just floor it since your driving wheels are still moving laterally.
Failing that, switch to LSD and reduce the Power setting (this is what I did when learning) until it's at a level you're comfortable with. Then gradually turn it up as you gain confidence with it. You won't win any races with it low, but you might actually finish them
control of the trottle is needed badly in rwd , unlike in 4wd where you sustain the revs or fwd where you try n ot to understeeer see its eazy just practise
Gonna add my 2 pence. I learned to drive the XFG rather effeciently within 3days, it took me more than 2weeks to drive the XRG properly. Although, I only spent 4-5h per day driving.

The XFG and the XRG are basically each others opposites. The biggest difference is in the way one counters oversteer/understeer. I suggest attempting to race a RallyX track to learn countering properly. It's hard, but when you can get around RallyX tracks without spinning you will be able to drive the car rather well on tarmac. What RallyX teaches you is gentle pedalwork, not too hard braking/accelerating, nor to soft. Too little throttle can result in a spin.

A last note, sets might be different when driving KB/W/M. A set I loved with KB, is less than perfect on W.
I am using a keyboard and having immense problems driving RWD's!!
Any tips??
Quote from Alive Ghost :I am using a keyboard and having immense problems driving RWD's!!
Any tips??

Get a wheel. Honestly I tried it once for fun and it was undrivable. Drove a lot with mouse when I was a demo racer but get yourself a wheel.

It makes much more fun to drive and you'll get more confidence in the car which is absolutely important when you drive online.
At OP: I don't understand why you get the problem of the back cutting loose. I find the XFG quite hard to get out, it just doesn't have enough power.

For keyboard and mouse users. I set sensitivity in XP, use .2 center steer reduction, up and down for gas and brake, LMB for gear up, RMB for gear down.
~Bryan~
Quote from theirishnoob :control of the trottle is needed badly in rwd , unlike in 4wd where you sustain the revs or fwd where you try n ot to understeeer

4wd eh? Tried that in LFS, have we?
Doesn't necessarilly mean he tried the RB4 or FXR in LFS .
I agree, hence the question.
Quote from Alive Ghost :I am using a keyboard and having immense problems driving RWD's!!
Any tips??

Quote from Christian Held :Get a wheel. Honestly I tried it once for fun and it was undrivable. Drove a lot with mouse when I was a demo racer but get yourself a wheel.

It makes much more fun to drive and you'll get more confidence in the car which is absolutely important when you drive online.

Well, a wheel is not needed really. I drove the XRG rather well (within 3-4s of WR) on KBn. It just takes loads of training, and then some. In fact, some of the faster times on BL1 with XRG have been set with KB.
Wheel is an easier way to be consitent as far as I'm concerned.

As has been stated in other threads, you have to have a better suited set on KB, as in better suited for the KB-car-track combo, not only car-track.

Which leads to a slight problem with driving the XRG (most experience). The sets from inferno often have locked diff, and positive toe, neither of which I like when driving on KB. Usually I set the toe to a negative number, and switch to LSD. Might also have to take a look at the brakes.
Having brakes set up to lock the tires into skidding the car can be very fast, but also hard to drive.
I used the inferno sets, and other sets I got donated, as a base for my own sets.

As a sidenote, I have abandoned the XRT in favour of the RB4, at least the latter speaks to me.

Switching to RWD
(25 posts, started )
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