IIRC, real Group C cars (and many other turbo racing cars) had adjustible turbo pressures.

If the F/XRR were to have variable pressures (most powerful generating 500 brake), it would help even the class up as the F/XRR would have that extra 10hp when needed and also in leagues with safety cars the pressures could be turned right down to save fuel. Maybe the FZR needs worse fuel economy as well ...

Why? Everyone would just run at maximum boost all the time. FZR engine develops no more power than other engines, given equal efficieny (it doesn't vary that much for well setup engines) then fuel usage should be very similar.

To the general issue of class balancing, of course I'm in favour for that.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Why? Everyone would just run at maximum boost all the time.

It depends on the race length. If it was slightly longer than a full boost tank, most would use less boost in quiet bits so a stop won't be needed.

Wouldn't that just be the same as not flooring the throttle (though admittedly more precise)?

Quote from Bob Smith :

Wouldn't that just be the same as not flooring the throttle (though admittedly more precise)?

No, it would be sensible. It's like saying "why do Indycar/CCWS/I think F1 cars have them know use the fuel mixture - surely throttle control would be better".

Quote from duke_toaster :

It depends on the race length. If it was slightly longer than a full boost tank, most would use less boost in quiet bits so a stop won't be needed.

a sitation where as what you described can decide a race is quite rare, but could make interesting differences for a fuel constrainted race.

Quote from JJ72 :

a sitation where as what you described can decide a race is quite rare, but could make interesting differences for a fuel constrainted race.

Good point, maybe a /fuellimit system would spice up LFS racing in the more unbalanced classes.

Maybe a server side option to lower fuel tank capacity for individual cars (I'm not in favour of accelerated fuel use or accelerated tyre wear but smaller tanks could be justifiable), but there would be issues with PBs and so-on.

I think there must be a way to avoid changing the physical stat of the car but just limiting the volume of fuel you can start with from the server side, which would eliminate the problem with mismatches.

think about it, it's actually quite a nice idea, especially if we have proper engine damage/wear simulated.

For that we'd need engine/turbo damage model. Run the boost at full al the time, your turbo blows up. SO you'd need to find the right balance.

maybe be a turbo lag option, turn it down for the short tracks, and open it wide for the long tracks, like westhill.

Ehm, turbo lag option? I can't say I'm a turbo specialist but how on earth (sorry ) can you adjust the turbo lag? I mean, turbo lag is the direct result of the turbo size, speed and the mechanical solution that makes the turbo to spin. The time it takes to get the turbo(s) spinning to the optimum range is the lag.

And as said earlier, the possibility to have adjustable engine parametres needs good implementation as well thoroughly thought out balancing in order to not give one car more tuneable engine than others, making ot faster than the other cars in its class

Quote from Hyperactive :

Ehm, turbo lag option? I can't say I'm a turbo specialist but how on earth (sorry ) can you adjust the turbo lag? I mean, turbo lag is the direct result of the turbo size, speed and the mechanical solution that makes the turbo to spin. The time it takes to get the turbo(s) spinning to the optimum range is the lag.

I don't know about how race cars but variable turbo geometry will reduce lag times and as variable then it will open up at higher engine revs meaning little turbo lag with turbo working through the rev range. Just look (iirc) the new porsche 911 turbo has variable turbo geometry.

As for the evening up the class, i think only the XRR needs to be even with the FZR and the FXR should be more DTM car.

To be honest I have no idea whether variable geometry turbos are used in racing cars.. Since racing cars spend most of their time at high revs, the uses of variable geometry seem quite non-existent to me. From what I know it is quite possible to get the turbo lag minimized with double turbos. Though in rally they use only one turbo so... dunno really

Quote from Hyperactive :

Though in rally they use only one turbo so... dunno really

In rally they run anti-lag systems, so there's no need for another turbine

porsche is one of the few manufacturers that really researched on variable geometry turbos and put it into their production cars, however it's still quite a novel technology that is not widely used, I think it would be quite troublesome to model as well, better deal with the basic first.

Quote from JJ72 :

porsche is one of the few manufacturers that really researched on variable geometry turbos and put it into their production cars, however it's still quite a novel technology that is not widely used, I think it would be quite troublesome to model as well, better deal with the basic first.

My response about the variable geometry wasn't a suggestion as i think it would be extremly difficult to implement in lfs. It was just a response to hyperactive asking about how can you reduce lag.

Variable geometry has been in diesel turbines for quite a while. Petrol engines have a too hot exhaust, that's why variable geometry is hard to make work there. Racing cars would prolly have more heavy duty turbos which more or less goes against variable geometry as that is a sophisticated, 'gentle' ttechnology. For a GTR that's supposed to do endurance races, you want beefy, manly and strong components.

Back on topic... i think the lag was aoriginally brought up as a trade-off for higher boost pressure.

in this case lower pressure = lower lag + lower increase ni HP + friendlier for tight courses.

high pressure = high lag = hgiher increase in HP = a right strong kick in the arse when it's properly spun up

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

...high pressure = high lag = hgiher increase in HP = a right strong kick in the arse when it's properly spun up

And when that happens the FZR is already 200 meters ahead. Two turbos with barely any lag and equal width tyres for XRR, that's where it's at.

Or just shuffle the car classes: FZR class and XRR/FXR class?.

Quote from spankmeyer :

And when that happens the FZR is already 200 meters ahead. Two turbos with barely any lag and equal width tyres for XRR, that's where it's at.

It would be nice to be able to get the XRR on par with the FZR while keeping it a turbo, so maybe that is the solution.

Quote :

Or just shuffle the car classes: FZR class and XRR/FXR class?.

You dont hear of many 4wd gtr cars as they are in the high majority RWD so why not have the FZR and XRR equals, with FXR slower still but have it more as DTM car.
Or maybe reduce the power of the FXR alot so it becomes saloon competitor for UFR and XFR lol.

when you look at fuel consumption, the fzr uses 1/3 more fuel when flat out (oval: fzr 1,2 -1,3 xrr 0,9-1.0) which is the disadvantage of the fzr on longer races. but as most of the lfs races are withouth pitstrategy at all, the fzr would win in most of the cases.

but if you have longer races with the need of pitstops, it can be handy to drive the xrr which might do pit in one time less then fzr...

i don't think a leveling is needed OR that serverside max-fuel option would be handy to level it out on shorter races.

to level out even the fxr with the others you probably need much more HP in that car. allthough the fxr has other advantages, not top speed but with handling AND damage. this sucker is massive as a tank...

Quote from spankmeyer :

Or just shuffle the car classes: FZR class and XRR/FXR class?.

That is another idea, actually. Then add a 3 litre V6 RB6 and make the RBR a version of that in the FZR class.

Quote from Fischfix :

when you look at fuel consumption, the fzr uses 1/3 more fuel when flat out (oval: fzr 1,2 -1,3 xrr 0,9-1.0) which is the disadvantage of the fzr on longer races. but as most of the lfs races are withouth pitstrategy at all, the fzr would win in most of the cases.

but if you have longer races with the need of pitstops, it can be handy to drive the xrr which might do pit in one time less then fzr...

i don't think a leveling is needed OR that serverside max-fuel option would be handy to level it out on shorter races.

to level out even the fxr with the others you probably need much more HP in that car. allthough the fxr has other advantages, not top speed but with handling AND damage. this sucker is massive as a tank...

But in a normal race an FXR or XRR uses the tires well before the fuel tank. We were doing LFS GT on blackwood (3 hours) and had to pit on every 45 minutes due to the tires. We used about 75% of the tank by then i think. FZRs could just use the whole tank.

Adjustable boost pressure and fuel mix would be handy additions, IMO. Binding them to buttons so you could easily change them without having to go into sub-menus would be good. There are several examples of racing series which have required careful fuel management (through adjusting boost pressure and/or fuel mix) in order to be successful. F1 and World Sportscar, off the top of my head, are two high profile examples. In a race series where fuel is limited it can be vitally important to be able to accurately monitor (which is one of the potential caveats of introducing variable boost/fuel mix) and accurately control the situation. When we get wet weather racing it would also be handy to lower boost pressure to provide smoother power delivery and better driveability.