Racing is objective, drifting is subjective.
Enough said; that's the only concrete thing you can say. The rest is preference.
Enough said; that's the only concrete thing you can say. The rest is preference.
YES!
So I better not see you diss my sweet sweet poutine again, Mr. Stampede!
Please folks !
I have stated, that I have nothing against you drifters. As long as you don`t start drifting in my races
Drifting or knitting, I`m just not interested - And I would blame knitting too, if somebody brougth it up in this forum - PUBLIC
It`s fine, if some guys, want to drift, and I`m sure that the devs, will make it better, as the development goes on. They want to simulate everything on wheels - Maby forklift`s and lawnmowers too
Some like the daugther, some the mother, and a few the father ! hehe
I have said what I wanted now, so I`m not comming back, to answer any more critics, of my opinion.
I have stated, that I have nothing against you drifters. As long as you don`t start drifting in my races
Drifting or knitting, I`m just not interested - And I would blame knitting too, if somebody brougth it up in this forum - PUBLIC
It`s fine, if some guys, want to drift, and I`m sure that the devs, will make it better, as the development goes on. They want to simulate everything on wheels - Maby forklift`s and lawnmowers too
Some like the daugther, some the mother, and a few the father ! hehe
I have said what I wanted now, so I`m not comming back, to answer any more critics, of my opinion.
This is a rather lame discussion. Nobody's convincing anybody else of their point and the argument is becoming more and more polarized.
If anything, get one last post in on this thread and let the thread DIE.
I'd rather not have everyone be so angry with oneanother, so I'll say this:
They say drifting is like figure skating- then racing is like speed skating. The two sides both have a great deal of skill, though they are quite often misunderstood. The two cannot coexist at the same time, so they can take turns. Also, neither side should not start arguing against the other, because when you step back and look at it- it's just a bunch of people in tights arguing
If anything, get one last post in on this thread and let the thread DIE.
I'd rather not have everyone be so angry with oneanother, so I'll say this:
They say drifting is like figure skating- then racing is like speed skating. The two sides both have a great deal of skill, though they are quite often misunderstood. The two cannot coexist at the same time, so they can take turns. Also, neither side should not start arguing against the other, because when you step back and look at it- it's just a bunch of people in tights arguing
heres an interesting one:
is drifting a choice like being gay or genetic like being a republican ?
is drifting a choice like being gay or genetic like being a republican ?
Truth be known I've been known to consume an abundance of said... "meal".... No hard feelings there bud... In contrast, I have not attended the Stampede in about 10 years. Seems like a method for us "rich" Albertans to waste wads of perfectly good cash on something. I know a few folks in QC, but they don't represent the stereotype like the few. Always the way it is I suppose; mass misunderstanding like this silly thread. Regardless, keep inventing kickass heartclogging food.... I'll still consume it (along with Guiness - hail the Irish for the best beer ever conceived!)OK - just so you're aware, you are officially responsible for wasting precious Guiness by way of having it forced up my... "oral / nasal conector passage" and out through my nose. The bill is in the mail
and i always though you guys over there only drank water which you actually call beer for reasons which are beyond me and every other european for that matter
i though about pushing it a bit further with:
like being a republican or an inbred (actually that distinction is redundant)
but i decided not to on grounds of being potentially offensive to inbreds
Although I cannot account for the taste of my fellow countrymen, I can testify on behalf of the fact that the only beer worth consuming does not come from this continent. Note the spiffy toque in my avatar. Once my G25 actually ARRIVES (ahem... composure....) you will note the custom Guiness glasses; designed to accomodate exactly one Guiness (properly poured of course). Also note that I do have Irish heritage (grandfather) which may account for my superior taste.
Well... Like many American politics is lost on me.
Still humorous though!
yepp, drifting is just for showoff who know nothing about speed.
look at this n00bs drifting ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92WIsTySD8A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWNrE0wWJPc
now talking seriuosly. there are 2 types of drifting. show drifting, just for showoffs, tyre burning with their asses all over the place. and drifting as a technique of cornering the fastest way posible.
you grip guys forget that in limited grip situations, drifting kicks ass to gripping with RWD cars. usually track cars, have enough geotropic force to increase grip, and then its wise to grip. but thats not the case on every situation.
the most basic definition for drifting would be turning using power. basically you are turning using the 4 wheels, in situations where while griping you would understeer cause your turn with only 2 wheels.
the real drawback of drifting is that it kills the tyres, but thats the price you pay for extra grip.
so ppl talking about drifting without knowing more about it besides 2fast2furious ... well, they should learn a bit more before they start talking.
oversteering and drifting isnt the same thing.
look at this n00bs drifting ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92WIsTySD8A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWNrE0wWJPc
now talking seriuosly. there are 2 types of drifting. show drifting, just for showoffs, tyre burning with their asses all over the place. and drifting as a technique of cornering the fastest way posible.
you grip guys forget that in limited grip situations, drifting kicks ass to gripping with RWD cars. usually track cars, have enough geotropic force to increase grip, and then its wise to grip. but thats not the case on every situation.
the most basic definition for drifting would be turning using power. basically you are turning using the 4 wheels, in situations where while griping you would understeer cause your turn with only 2 wheels.
the real drawback of drifting is that it kills the tyres, but thats the price you pay for extra grip.
so ppl talking about drifting without knowing more about it besides 2fast2furious ... well, they should learn a bit more before they start talking.
oversteering and drifting isnt the same thing.
I think a few of you guys might need to figure out the difference between drifting and powersliding, often a drift is turning more than the angle of the corner, then straightening out back to normal, while powersliding faces you in the direction of the exit of the corner, and no more, which then allows you to exit with more speed than normal. Keep in mind rally drivers get sideways often and they're not drifters...
what you said goes against what many f1 drivers have said. they call it drifting. so what do you have to say about that?
F1? He's talking about rally!! Wad's it gotta do wif F1? I'd like to see F1 drifting... haha, they're RWD after all. This discussion is turing hostile. Again: You all just have to tolerate. Some like drifting, some gripping, some others like rallies... get over it.
"gripping" wtf?!?
those who RACE don't care if the car has traction or not, the whole deal is FINISHING FIRST.
by calling proper racing as "gripping" it does not give any more credibility to the idea that "drifting" is "some kind of racing".
those who RACE don't care if the car has traction or not, the whole deal is FINISHING FIRST.
by calling proper racing as "gripping" it does not give any more credibility to the idea that "drifting" is "some kind of racing".
"geotropic force" ? maybe you mean centripetal force? i'm a physics major, yet i have never met a force called "geotropic".
"extra grip" ? when the tires slide they have less friction than when rolling. So when your tires slide you kill them and you have less traction.
oversteering and drifting is indeed not the same thing, yet you wanted to describe oversteering (cornering using engine power to oversteer through a corner) but you were calling it "drifting".
In any case this discussion goes nowhere, because every one here has his own definition of "drifting" "racing" "oversteering" etcetc.
Yeah, good idea... Since I haven't staked out my claim here, I'll just say I'm a racer through and through. Tried drifting, but I'm crap at it... so far... But as a spectator I'm entranced by it. You can elaborate any arcane semantic argument you like, but competition drifting IS racing - say different and you're wrong. Period.
I've seen this argument again and again, not just on game forums, but in RL too - same arguments, word for word, ad infinitum. I really don't understand the investment some 'racers' have in their opposition to the other sport, and I don't care anymore. I've listened and attempted to rationalise what I hear, but there just isn't any logic - its a faith. Well, more of a superstition really.
On both sides, such blind faith leads to statements that are really better left in the darker recesses of the skull. At the very least, there are a lot of people, drifters and circuit racers, who would do well to understand what the 'traction circle' is, because its in that representation of the forces at play that we have some shared ground.
Liked the rally stuff, so here's some more inspiration to leave it on a sweet note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjkKGisK86E
I disagree (wellwhaddayaknow)
It is lame, but not because the arguement is polarised - it isn't.
polarised would be:
the drifters saying "drifting is great and requires great skill"
the racers saying "drifting is pants and is easy but pointless"
in reality,
The majority of drifters (who are posting) are saying:
"Why do you hate drifting? drifing is great, you just don't understand it" (some are saying drifting makes you faster?!)
The vast majority of non-drifters are saying roughly:
"I have nothing against drifting - I agree that it requires skill, but I don't want to do it as an end in itself - I'm here to race. What I don't like is the attitude of many (not all) 'drifters'."
you see, there is no argument. other than
A Why do you hate it?
B We don't
A But why do you hate it?, its so unfair
B But We don't hate it - really we don't
A I still don't understand why you hate it - you must be stupid...
B We don't hate it, and don't call us stupid...
etc.
yep - it's lame because only one half is arguing - the drifters.... and they are argueing against their false perception of what the non-drifters think...
The truth is that MOST FOLKS WHO DON'T DRIFT DO NOT HATE DRIFTING
If there is a problem its with the part of the drifting commumity that we are most likely to come into contact with - the irresponsible ones who drift in race servers, and love to get into pointless arguements based on false perceptions rather than listening to what people are really saying...
enough for now
Touché.
nice point of view, col
So in an attempt to divert the subject of conversation, why do people hate poutine?
I mean, it's all about gravy and cheese curds. How much better can it be?
HELL! POUTINE CAN EVEN BE MADE TO COMPLY TO A VEGETARIAN'S STANDARDS!!!!! (considering he's not vegetalian).
http://electron.mit.edu/%7Egst ... hotos/plate_poutine_1.jpg
I mean, it's all about gravy and cheese curds. How much better can it be?
HELL! POUTINE CAN EVEN BE MADE TO COMPLY TO A VEGETARIAN'S STANDARDS!!!!! (considering he's not vegetalian).
http://electron.mit.edu/%7Egst ... hotos/plate_poutine_1.jpg
actually they dont
plus tyres always slide if they dont they dont develop any lateral force
Gimp and Irfanview are just two of the completely free software that is available to allow you to reduce the size of your pictures so that when posted in a forum, you can see more than just the top 25% left hand corner .
.If i could understand what you are typing, i would think about it.
Here's what I don't like about drifting:
1) people constantly confuse it with racing and get upset when they're told it's not racing. But the solid fact is this: drift isn't racing. Racing is a contest of speed (as any dictionary in the world will tell you), while competition drift, which is what we're talking about here, is based on points. It isn't racing, but that's not to say it isn't a motorsport. It is, and a very skillful one. However, people need to realise that just because something involves cars, it isn't necessarily a race.
2) people frequently confuse what I'll call "show drifting" with four-wheel drift. 4W drift is a driving technique which involves a controlled loss of traction of all four wheels, and in which all four wheels have the same or similar slip angles. "Show drifting", the back-out variety, is quite different - huge rear slip angle, fronts more or less pointing the right way to control the direction of travel. 4W drift isn't used much in modern racing, but before the advent of wings and slick tyres it was a common and often necessary technique for speed through corners.
4W drift has nothing to with show drifting - 4W drift is about balancing the car and maintaining corner speed to achieve a quick exit. From the start of GP racing up until the advent of slicks in F1 in the '70s, tyre changes simply didn't happen unless you blew one. One set would last you for a whole GP, sometimes a whole race weekend. They were almost as hard as normal road tyres and with no downforce (until 1968) and huge horsepower, grip was minimal. 4W drift was necessary to be fast (watch some GPL alien hotlaps - those guys are constantly sideways, but only as much as required - often it's very subtle).
3) Actually, it's not drifting that I have a problem with. It's people from either side of the track who a) are totally fundamentalist about racing/drift and think the other group are a pack of wankers/fossils or b) can't even agree on what they're arguing about (see "show drift" vs 4W drift). The threads that are started on this topic are always ending up in some childish flamewar or circular argument where the terms of reference are confused to the point of rendering any intelligent discussion impossible. I think if people are going to have these arguments then they should at least be in agreement on the terms they're using! Nothing worse than seeing a decent discussion devolve into a frustrating war over semantics.
To conclude: racing is about speed - first across the line or fastest time wins. Show drifting is about points - therefore not about speed and therefore isn't a race (I think the term "sport" is definitely applicable though).
To be perfectly clear: I like drifting but I don't do it. I try to avoid it when I race as it slows me down (unless I'm 4W-drifting an LX through a quick turn - remember the difference there). I prefer to race because I enjoy it more. To me, speed is more fun I grew up around cars on a big property with miles and miles of dirt tracks through the scrub, so I know how much fun it is to kick a car's rear out and countersteer to avoid trees and livestock Later, when I hit tarmac for the first time, I loved it straight off and instantly realised that, for me, speed is a lot more fun than pretty much anything else you can do in a (moving) car
Col, well said :up:
I now have a strange craving for gravy and cheese.
1) people constantly confuse it with racing and get upset when they're told it's not racing. But the solid fact is this: drift isn't racing. Racing is a contest of speed (as any dictionary in the world will tell you), while competition drift, which is what we're talking about here, is based on points. It isn't racing, but that's not to say it isn't a motorsport. It is, and a very skillful one. However, people need to realise that just because something involves cars, it isn't necessarily a race.
2) people frequently confuse what I'll call "show drifting" with four-wheel drift. 4W drift is a driving technique which involves a controlled loss of traction of all four wheels, and in which all four wheels have the same or similar slip angles. "Show drifting", the back-out variety, is quite different - huge rear slip angle, fronts more or less pointing the right way to control the direction of travel. 4W drift isn't used much in modern racing, but before the advent of wings and slick tyres it was a common and often necessary technique for speed through corners.
4W drift has nothing to with show drifting - 4W drift is about balancing the car and maintaining corner speed to achieve a quick exit. From the start of GP racing up until the advent of slicks in F1 in the '70s, tyre changes simply didn't happen unless you blew one. One set would last you for a whole GP, sometimes a whole race weekend. They were almost as hard as normal road tyres and with no downforce (until 1968) and huge horsepower, grip was minimal. 4W drift was necessary to be fast (watch some GPL alien hotlaps - those guys are constantly sideways, but only as much as required - often it's very subtle).
3) Actually, it's not drifting that I have a problem with. It's people from either side of the track who a) are totally fundamentalist about racing/drift and think the other group are a pack of wankers/fossils or b) can't even agree on what they're arguing about (see "show drift" vs 4W drift). The threads that are started on this topic are always ending up in some childish flamewar or circular argument where the terms of reference are confused to the point of rendering any intelligent discussion impossible. I think if people are going to have these arguments then they should at least be in agreement on the terms they're using! Nothing worse than seeing a decent discussion devolve into a frustrating war over semantics.
To conclude: racing is about speed - first across the line or fastest time wins. Show drifting is about points - therefore not about speed and therefore isn't a race (I think the term "sport" is definitely applicable though).
To be perfectly clear: I like drifting but I don't do it. I try to avoid it when I race as it slows me down (unless I'm 4W-drifting an LX through a quick turn - remember the difference there). I prefer to race because I enjoy it more. To me, speed is more fun
I grew up around cars on a big property with miles and miles of dirt tracks through the scrub, so I know how much fun it is to kick a car's rear out and countersteer to avoid trees and livestock Later, when I hit tarmac for the first time, I loved it straight off and instantly realised that, for me, speed is a lot more fun than pretty much anything else you can do in a (moving) car Col, well said :up:
I now have a strange craving for gravy and cheese.
This thread is closed
Why people dont like drifting in LFS ??
(318 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG