The online racing simulator
LFS vs Papy (GPL, NR2003)
(18 posts, started )
#1 - JeffR
LFS vs Papy (GPL, NR2003)
Might as well complete the list of LFS versus other sims here. Although I haven't seen a LFS versus NFS, I don't think that there will be one.

Grand Prix Legends - Ignoring the trainer's it was originally a one car class game, but now there are 1965 and 1969 (downforce) mods. But for me, I'll restrict the comparason to the original 1967 F1 car physics. The high power (400hp) low weight (1300lbs), no downforce, and huge slip angles (10+ degrees) made this sim unusual. Granted that interest has waned quite a bit, but I still run some hotlaps every now an then. GPL was the first sim where I learned about induced understeer. There is a quirk in the physics of at least the Lotus when braking balance is around 53% (front), and possibly requiring a minimal amount of toe out at the front, where braking hard and steering one direction causes the car to yaw the opposite way gplrs.wmv, but for the most part the game seems to have the right feel. The cars are difficult to handle at the limits, but not unreasonably unstable. Sample dual view video:

gplrngs.wmv

Nascar Racing 2003 - I like the Trans-Am cars and all the add-on road course type tracks the most, but I did spend about 6 weeks on and off checking out the open servers online, which is mostly racing the high speed, restrictor plate, ovals, which ends up with a lot of cars bunched up together and a lot of wrecks, and the occasional win, but at 30 minutes or so per race, it's time consuming. Still there were about 300 players online during the week, and about 500 players during weekends (don't know what it's like now). Regarding the standard cars on ovals, there's been some feedback from real racers that state that NR2003 is very close. I haven't found any real quirks with the physics of NR2003. Sample video - Trans Am mod, viper at willow springs, quad view:

nrwsvp.wmv

LFS - Since versions S2 Alpha S and later, the tire physics are very good. I like the addition of the faster cars to the game. I haven't driven all the cars, but I do like the FO8, LX6, and the BF1. I made a couple of dual view videos:

lfsblf1.wmv
lfsslzg.wmv
Theres no point in comparing these games with each other imo. They have all different goals and therefore its totally useless. Its like comparing Apples with Fishes. You can eat both but why to compare em?
Useless provocative spam take 32.
None of the links working?
#5 - Gunn
Quote from JeffR :Might as well complete the list of LFS versus other sims here.

Why? These topics are among the worst on the forum.
Quote from JeffR :Grand Prix Legends - Ignoring the trainer's it was originally a one car class game, but now there are 1965 and 1969 (downforce) mods. But for me, I'll restrict the comparason to the original 1967 F1 car physics. The high power (400hp) low weight (1300lbs), no downforce, and huge slip angles (10+ degrees) made this sim unusual.

Indeed. GPL was and still is a great sim, one of the best games I've played.

There is still a GPL community and there are even graphics, cars and tracks updates. And also some online racing

Some links:
http://gplea.rscsites.org
http://www.f1legends.ch/index.php (great site, maybe the best one, but in french only)

Some pics:
http://www.f1legends.ch/update ... na/images/laguna_shot.jpg
http://www.dixierunners.speedg ... mrocks/images/mon_04a.jpg
http://www.f1legends.ch/update ... /spa/images/spa_scott.jpg

But I won't compare GPL with LFS though
Any simracer should own both GPL and LFS.

Though probably less complex, GPL does quite a few things right. In fact, I'd say it would be a really good test for LFS to have a 400hp 600kg 1967 F1 car..

Now, the Lx6 has about that weight.. with half the power.. and look how easy it is to get the back out on that.. I imagine a 67 F1 car in LFS would be ideal in highlighting potential issues with physics and tyres. GPL does a pretty good job imo, the cars are certainly drivable, and when the back steps out a bit, you can apply 'logic' (some opposite lock, and perhaps some less power) to safe the thing..

Recently I've been making the bold statement that GPL does less 'big things' wrong than most new sims. Not many agree with that though..
#8 - jtr99
Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :
Recently I've been making the bold statement that GPL does less 'big things' wrong than most new sims. Not many agree with that though..

Count one more in the "agree" camp. I think this is a great way to put it.
Another one in the agree camp here.
I'm with you, Niels. Where it really counts - the big things - GPL has it in spades. Especially with the '65 and '69 mods which have greatly addressed things like slip angles (a long-standing gripe) and downforce (a new addition which works fantastically). The new '66 mod will have lift high-speed lift included too Those modders never stop finding ways to improve that ancient game :up:
Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :Though probably less complex, GPL does quite a few things right. In fact, I'd say it would be a really good test for LFS to have a 400hp 600kg 1967 F1 car..

Now, the Lx6 has about that weight.. with half the power.. and look how easy it is to get the back out on that.. I imagine a 67 F1 car in LFS would be ideal in highlighting potential issues with physics and tyres. GPL does a pretty good job imo, the cars are certainly drivable, and when the back steps out a bit, you can apply 'logic' (some opposite lock, and perhaps some less power) to safe the thing..

Doing such a car is indeed a good physics test. I tried this in mine and it worked quite well. Even ripped GPL's sounds and one of the backgrounds for it

http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/ToddSimGPL1.wmv

Would be interesting to try it in LFS too though, for sure.
Nothing can compare to GPL, not even LFS. There was no LFS 8 years ago, was there? I want to get the full version of GPL, but my parent's don't trust paypal (don't ask me why), so I can't get it off ebay. Too bad there is no GPL Fairy!

Now, what I really wanna see is 1960's F1 cars in LFS.
Paypal isn't vital to ebay with, it's just that people find it easy and relatively safe to use online as it's linked to peoples actual bank accounts/credit cards (if you have your own account you could set it up - I think you may have to be 18 though, I'm unsure).
True, some sellers only accept Paypal (for speed and convenience's sake mostly) but then many others will happily accept direct deposits into their bank accounts or cash transfers via Western Union or even bank cheques/postal orders (if you're in the same country). Ask a seller what they're happy with if you're not sure.
Quote :None of the links working?

My web site was running slow and I asked to be switched to another server. Ipower did this but without warning. I'm in the process of restoring my web site currently, but with cable modem upload speed of 1mb/s (about 140kilo-bytes per second), and about 7GB of data to upload it's going to take a while. I'll get the gpl stuff up next.

Update: gpl and lfs stuff is restored now.

Quote :lfs vs xxx threads

Something to chat about while we wait for the next release. The developers have been busy with real life lately, so it's slowed things down a bit. Considering the age of the Papy games, they really aren't competitors. And the Sold Out version GPL can be purchased for less than $10 online. You can also get the GPL 2004 demo for free.

One thing, is that most will agree that the graphics in LFS are better than the graphis of GPL. I also included the reverse steering video (which will eventually be back up) to show a quirk in GPL's physics.

A better title for this thread would be Papy games, a nostalgic look. As the only reason I did a LFS vs ... was to complete the list of LFS vs ... games. Most have been ISI games, but the Papy games should be included as well. Also maybe some expert with both games could offer constructive advice for LFS.
vs N2003 is a tough one btw as ovals + nascars = so extremely different.. N2003 has some input lag, GPL doesn't.. I don't think the mods for N2003 work and they might not be fair to judge the N2003 engine with. I'd say the GTP mod is really not good for example. It almost has worse snap back than ISI sims: something definitely very wrong there. Still, NASCAR N2003 seems realistic and it seems that in the simracing physics gods scene Kaemmer is still the one to beat.

I briefly tried the GPL65 mod and wasn't too impressed, though it was too brief a try. Same goes for the 69 mod, tried briefly, but this did impress me. Perhaps I just need at least 2/3hp/kg to weight ratio

Can't wait to watch Todds vid, they have been impressive and most of all seem free of the (imo) weird things that
a) happen in ISI stuff without the user having any influence
b) can happen with LFS although normal driving inputs can actually do something about them..

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :vs N2003 is a tough one btw as ovals + nascars = so extremely different.. N2003 has some input lag, GPL doesn't.. I don't think the mods for N2003 work and they might not be fair to judge the N2003 engine with. I'd say the GTP mod is really not good for example. It almost has worse snap back than ISI sims: something definitely very wrong there. Still, NASCAR N2003 seems realistic and it seems that in the simracing physics gods scene Kaemmer is still the one to beat.

I briefly tried the GPL65 mod and wasn't too impressed, though it was too brief a try. Same goes for the 69 mod, tried briefly, but this did impress me. Perhaps I just need at least 2/3hp/kg to weight ratio

Can't wait to watch Todds vid, they have been impressive and most of all seem free of the (imo) weird things that
a) happen in ISI stuff without the user having any influence
b) can happen with LFS although normal driving inputs can actually do something about them..


Pretty much agree and disagree. The cars in GTP feel more like nascars than what they are, but I still wouldn't call them snappy. Compared to LFS the cars in GTP are quite easy to throw around, but at slower speeds GTP feels a bit like ISI sim, wheels spin + low speed = dangerous but just a bit careful and it won't bite, hard. GPL has no lag, Nascar has some, agreed there.

The GPL has still few things which so many other sims are missing. These are credibility and feel. LFS, GPL and nascar certainly have the best feel. When you lose the rear, you can feel it going off before it really does, unlike in some <guess which> games where you are thinking wtf just happened.
Quote from jtw62074 :Doing such a car is indeed a good physics test. I tried this in mine and it worked quite well. Even ripped GPL's sounds and one of the backgrounds for it

Todd, you are so hardcore. How do you drive with the complete absence of landmarks in that thing?
Memorize the heck out of the track The video isn't as clear as it is on my monitor of course. That was actually 1280x1024 res with no video compression or anything, so the corners aren't really as totally blind as they look.

LFS vs Papy (GPL, NR2003)
(18 posts, started )
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