Quote from deggis :

I just tested, first running without CSR and then with it, no difference in FPS. Though I watched a replay instead of actually playing but I guess it makes no difference as it plays exactly the same sounds in replay too (and it doesn't play sounds for other player cars).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vYczmOkQowE

I agree that this CSR is far from perfect - though it's only 0.3 alpha version - but at least it makes you feel like driving a noisy HP beast. That's most important thing. I guess the sounds can be improved a lot just tuning the samples, currently in most of the cars it feels like the engine is always on low RPM and it doesn't start to "scream" until it goes over the red shift light.

What dump valve noise is that? or is that part of the CSR?

Niggle mode: In GPL you do get the arm to actually change gear visibly, it just doesn't play back on replays.

Quote from Robster230 :

What dump valve noise is that? or is that part of the CSR?

yes.

Quote from Woz :

How much vid ram does your card have?

It has 128MB.

In rFactor performance is so much depending from track and car too, there is so many tracks that I can't drive races as GFX power just is not enough, there is awful lot of ppl that look only to pretty graphics and everyone is making mods and tracks only that thing on mind, so optimizing is not very common practise.

I at least try to do my stuff so that it runs well with slower computer, well I have to as my temporarily card is so slow

My Kantti mod is perhaps lightest for rfactor, but defineatly most ugly, it still drives pretty ok for a mod that was made in 12 hours, but intention was not realistic mod, but just something to have fun with
42fps today at back of starting grid with 1280x1024 DX7 full details at Botniaring and 20 AI cars, was impressed as GFX card is really slow.

I'm just waiting WHEN I can start modding LFS, until then rFactor is only one that gives even bit of sensation of car behaving like car should.

Many mods have very weird physics and still they are told to be realistic, with more work (They work with big name mod for almost a year, to make all things I'm talking about it could take two years...) those are possible to make behave much better, for example gravity issues (gravity always not feeling to be pulling down) are usually caused by mods with wrong parameters.

Also rFactor default cars have flaws in that department.

CSU1, I think your problems had nothing to do with game, but distribution of game, really can't judge game solely based on that

I also decided to download rfactor after leaving it alone for a long time (lfs is just too good to leave alone lol), I stuck all the graphics up to max with 16x AF and 4x AA, my gfx card generally doesnt struggle with anything but i did notice at points it dropping to the 30fps range which was a shocker :o

I run a 4000+ 64bit athlon, 256mb geforce 7 7600GT and a gig of ram.

I was generally facinated with the graphics and the sound, the physics arn't too bad but the uphill rally climb is almost bar impossible to control, even with a 40 degree steering range to control the oversteer and understeer. I almost feel like you need a 80 degree angle to control anything :o slip and slide absolutely everywhere, so i gave up with the rally (don't have this problem with LFS and have some serious fun :] ). The tracks arn't too bad, the tire physics seem not to bad here, but could do with some definate improvement, doesn't compare to the traction of LFS. It just doesn't have that 'feel' you get with lfs when taking a corner. The most ridiculously annoying thing with this, is you literally have to fight the steering wheel to get the absolute centre (where you get all the FF effects in rfactor, like the bumps in the road etc etc). with the FF strength on full i was tired after about 5 minutes of racing :o Okay, i might not be too fit, but the majority of this was trying to keep the steering wheel centred I would say the main attraction to rfactor is the graphics and sounds, as they are quite simply astonishing, however, the gameplay just doesn't match LFS. Rfactor has that strange arcadey feel, but i think with a years more development perhaps, it quite possibly could be up for a match against the current LFS in concerns of gameplay. But hey, LFS in a year Don't get me wrong, i think rfactor is quite a good game/sim, but for me personally, i would choose lfs over it.

Just my pennies worth :-) Everyone to their own tbh.

Did you guys noticed how different the samples work in rFactor and in LFS with CSR??
Today i was testing the Seat Leon Mod, and i noticed that when you aply like 30, 40 % of throtlle, the sound is like you released it totally.. like on idle, but in LFS the sound is there, it really matches the revs you're at... totally similiar with LFS synthetic engine..
In rFactor there is same sound till about 50% throtlle, and only when you press it all the way, it sounds good..
I mean, when you say go through some corner where you only need half of throtlle, the sample will fool you, because no matter what, you will hear the same sound like it is bellow 50%.. it's just silly..

I have noticed the same thing in GTR2... weird though. CSR must blend multiple samples better, you can notice the difference clearly even when you turn off LFS's car sound. Though I don't agree that it's totally similar with the synth engine, because it just technically can't be.

Quote :

Today i was testing the Seat Leon Mod, and i noticed that when you aply like 30, 40 % of throtlle, the sound is like you released it totally.. like on idle, but in LFS the sound is there, it really matches the revs you're at... totally similiar with LFS synthetic engine..

Quote :

I have noticed the same thing in GTR2... weird though. CSR must blend multiple samples better, you can notice the difference clearly even when you turn off LFS's car sound. Though I don't agree that it's totally similar with the synth engine, because it just technically can't be.

I was thinking that LFS maybe outputs the sound in a slightly more sophisticated way than other sims/games which use samples. I can understand how Tweak and some others are maybe feeling concerned, or trying to sound a warning- that LFS may be getting dumbed down with the CSR/sampled thing... but I'm betting that it's the output information, not how you render it- sample/synth, that's really important.

Wish I could get the proper story on how sounds in LFS are generated. At the moment, I think it's a pretty basic system (simple tone controlled by pitch) and samples fit within that system rather well, but I bet Scawen has a bigger unfinished plan regarding the synthesised route... and maybe samples won't work within that system.

Also, with CSR, the samples must be blended, but that's fine. To me it sounds better and more natural than a regular tone running through the whole system, but then it depends on the quality of the wavs and their relation to one another. Some of the CSR car sounds I really love, some I don't, and some- I'm getting used to.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Today i was testing the Seat Leon Mod, and i noticed that when you aply like 30, 40 % of throtlle, the sound is like you released it totally.. like on idle

Maybe it's the gas pedal that fools you, not the sound? ISI engine has this strange pedal mapping "feature":

Quote :

My gas pedal has a big dead zone, how can I fix this?
Assign the brake pedal axis first and then the gas pedal axis.

http://www.10tacle.com/gtr-game/en/index.php?FAQs#8

Quote from Electrik Kar :

(...) I think it's a pretty basic system (simple tone controlled by pitch) and samples fit within that system rather well(...)

Wrong, i think it simulates every explosion inside the engine like a real engine, not a simple tone controlled by pitch

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Wish I could get the proper story on how sounds in LFS are generated. At the moment, I think it's a pretty basic system (simple tone controlled by pitch) and samples fit within that system rather well, but I bet Scawen has a bigger unfinished plan regarding the synthesised route... and maybe samples won't work within that system.

The system is a little more complex than that. The best way to explore the sound system is to download LFSTweak (If there is a version for U) and play with different engine sizes in cars.

This will allow you to see the real flexibility of the LFS sound engine.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

but I'm betting that it's the output information, not how you render it- sample/synth, that's really important.

Not to sound argumentative, but that doesn't make sense. The output information is a direct result of how it's rendered. Maybe I don't understand what you're saying though

Quote :

Wish I could get the proper story on how sounds in LFS are generated. At the moment, I think it's a pretty basic system (simple tone controlled by pitch) and samples fit within that system rather well, but I bet Scawen has a bigger unfinished plan regarding the synthesised route... and maybe samples won't work within that system.

The information is there if you look at old interviews. There is a "combustion sound" that LFS uses based on engine firings, and is affected by various conditions. With the advent of S2 there was also an acoustic downpipe simulation added to the engine. It's FAR more than a tone affected by RPM

If you do mess with LFSTweak, note how erie it is to be able to create any engine config (V10 / FLAT 6 etc) of different sizes and have it bear striking fundamental resemblance to the real engines. That really is a feat, even if it needs work to make it sound "prettier" as it is right now.

A simple "tone/pitch buzz thing" would not be able to accomplish what you can discover in LFStweak, and that's only with the settings Fonny was able to discover - there's likely a lot more involved than we know about.

Alright! Now I'm starting to get some answers!

Thanks guys.

I didn't understand that the normal sounds were being generated in this way. Actually, now that my memory's been jogged, I did read about this some time ago, about how the engine tone is created in the same way that combustion works, but when I started listening to the engine critically, I didn't really hear anything other than a 'basic regular tone'.

My argument, which seems to have deflated somewhat , is that the synth sounds and the CSR sounds were using the same data, ie, simple pitch data, to process the final sound. But it looks as though this is not the case (even though it kinda sounds like it :razz.

I'm still curious as to how deep the synth engine goes at present- can anyone fill me in on the details of the 'various conditions' which are dynamically altering the combustion sound?

And I'll much around with LFSTweak. Sounds like a rather cool instrument!

It was S1 with LFSTweak that made me admire the current sound.. err.. engine. A "V" engine sounds like a V.. A boxer like a boxer.. A straight 5 does have a good hint of that fast Focus or old Volvo 850s.. At low revs they are all quite believable.

I have no clue how it works but the engine sound engine certainly gets the basic physics quite right which I find fascinating. Of course the 'pop' an engine makes is only the base, which is where LFS currently seems to stop. In reality the exhaust is pretty complex and pretty important to the sound produced.. And of course everything will start to vibrate and make noise..

Anyway much like the 'rest' of LFS, I like what is currently there as the thought behind it seems the proper one. Of course one man can not program fast enough to make all the aspects of the sim better in a few months or even a few years..

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Alright! Now I'm starting to get some answers!

Thanks guys.

I didn't understand that the normal sounds were being generated in this way. Actually, now that my memory's been jogged, I did read about this some time ago, about how the engine tone is created in the same way that combustion works, but when I started listening to the engine critically, I didn't really hear anything other than a 'basic regular tone'.

My argument, which seems to have deflated somewhat , is that the synth sounds and the CSR sounds were using the same data, ie, simple pitch data, to process the final sound. But it looks as though this is not the case (even though it kinda sounds like it :razz.

I'm still curious as to how deep the synth engine goes at present- can anyone fill me in on the details of the 'various conditions' which are dynamically altering the combustion sound?

And I'll much around with LFSTweak. Sounds like a rather cool instrument!

I think once you play with LFS tweak you will start to see the real depth of the LFS sound engine. Create a big engine and it does sound great.

I think that if brake and gearbox sounds were added to the mix it would create a far more realistic sound scape in LFS.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

I'm still curious as to how deep the synth engine goes at present- can anyone fill me in on the details of the 'various conditions' which are dynamically altering the combustion sound?

And I'll much around with LFSTweak. Sounds like a rather cool instrument!

I'm every bit as curious about the inner workings of the sound engine as you are . They've traditionally been somewhat tight lipped re: the details. I know that (whether directly or indirectly) the amount of torque a particular firing is generating influences the sound. With an FXR or XRR at a standstill, bring the revs up to 6K or so. Then while keeping the brakes on (heel / toe is necessary) slowly increase the throttle while letting the clutch out. Not to move the car, but watch the boost pressure come up and you can hear the engine sound generation changing all the way up to full boost pressure. This basically has the implication that in the future if there is a valve problem or fuel delivery problem the (sound) engine will handle this and you'll be able to tell if certain things are wrong with the (car) engine. (Of course this experiment will fry the clutch in LFS someday )

I've asked before how it's possible for the LFS engine to generate sounds on the fly accurately enough (already) to sound like their RL configuration counterparts. The H4 sounds like one. The H6 sounds like one. The V10 sounds like one etc, enough to be instantly recognizable as in RL. This is done just by telling the (sound) engine how many cylinders and how they're configured. I realise it has to do with figuring out which pulses are more dominant for a given config but I still think it's pretty cool.

I don't care if I sound like a fanboy to some people, I really think LFS is an outstanding project even as it is. And no I'm not saying the sounds are so amazing they blow me away, I'm saying that I think how they're done is a real acheivement that can only get better.

As for people who insist glitz, glamour in "sims" makes them "1337" (a la GTR2...)..... It's like heading down to the bar and picking up some hottie bar fly chick with fake boobs and daisy-dukes, and getting a quick romp in the hay; leaving you with nothing more than an itchy crotch and an empty wallet in the morning. LFS is more like the medium-pretty girl who has character and substance underneath... You should marry LFS, it can only get better with time like a good marriage, because it's not built on superficialities. The bonus with LFS is that one day it'll turn into the hottie just to finish it off. Conversely, the "sim whores" of the world have no hope of ever having the substance they lack which is tragic indeed.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

It's like heading down to the bar and picking up some hottie bar fly chick with fake boobs and daisy-dukes, and getting a quick romp in the hay; leaving you with nothing more than an itchy crotch and an empty wallet in the morning. LFS is more like the medium-pretty girl who has character and substance underneath... You should marry LFS, it can only get better with time like a good marriage, because it's not built on superficialities.

lol classic signature stuff...

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I'm saying that I think how they're done is a real acheivement that can only get better.

I think a lot of us agree with this

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

As for people who insist glitz, glamour in "sims" makes them "1337" (a la GTR2...)..... It's like heading down to the bar and picking up some hottie bar fly chick with fake boobs and daisy-dukes, and getting a quick romp in the hay; leaving you with nothing more than an itchy crotch and an empty wallet in the morning. LFS is more like the medium-pretty girl who has character and substance underneath... You should marry LFS, it can only get better with time like a good marriage, because it's not built on superficialities. The bonus with LFS is that one day it'll turn into the hottie just to finish it off. Conversely, the "sim whores" of the world have no hope of ever having the substance they lack which is tragic indeed.

Now thats a good way to explain LFS


To make it on topic:

Does any one know, if rfactor will ever support mouse??

hmmm BBT, If I continue that analogy S3 would be quite a monster if it was female....

Quote from _rod_ :

Now thats a good way to explain LFS
Does any one know, if rfactor will ever support mouse??

rFactor has no mouse support and no keybord assistance like LFS.
I have both licences, but after driving with rFactor a while I prefere LFS.
LFS is more fun, better to drive and rFacor is difficult to join online hosts becouse of all the modifications.....

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

As for people who insist glitz, glamour in "sims" makes them "1337" (a la GTR2...)..... It's like heading down to the bar and picking up some hottie bar fly chick with fake boobs and daisy-dukes, and getting a quick romp in the hay; leaving you with nothing more than an itchy crotch and an empty wallet in the morning. LFS is more like the medium-pretty girl who has character and substance underneath... You should marry LFS, it can only get better with time like a good marriage, because it's not built on superficialities. The bonus with LFS is that one day it'll turn into the hottie just to finish it off. Conversely, the "sim whores" of the world have no hope of ever having the substance they lack which is tragic indeed.

Dude! :headbang: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :ices_rofl

It's been cut and pasted enough already, but, BBturbo, nice post

I haven't had the time to check out LFStweak as yet, so I don't really have anything else to add..!

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

As for people who insist glitz, glamour in "sims" makes them "1337" (a la GTR2...)..... It's like heading down to the bar and picking up some hottie bar fly chick with fake boobs and daisy-dukes, and getting a quick romp in the hay; leaving you with nothing more than an itchy crotch and an empty wallet in the morning. LFS is more like the medium-pretty girl who has character and substance underneath... You should marry LFS, it can only get better with time like a good marriage, because it's not built on superficialities. The bonus with LFS is that one day it'll turn into the hottie just to finish it off. Conversely, the "sim whores" of the world have no hope of ever having the substance they lack which is tragic indeed.

Jeff, man, that is amazing

yep BBT said it.


-Ill put that quote on my dsktop pic.