The online racing simulator
Test Patch U11: Fixes / VR updates
(275 posts, started , go to first unread)
Quote from Drifteris :For me it's about the same, maybe slightly less stutters but fps still drops when more cars on screen.

Are you using the beta version of SteamVR, had a few people mention it being a problem, whenever i have used steamVR on other games it constantly ends up stuttering and if i do not close in task manager it can cause stutters while not gaming(browsing ect)
Quote from gu3st :Honestly I don't think it makes much sense for Scawen to implement a third party service like that, given the privacy concerns. Plus it's just work to undo if Discord dies at some point (whcih given LFS' longevity so far, it seems more likely that LFS will last longer than Discord).

I like Discord, but I think third party clients is the right thing for that kind of integration.

It's less than 30 minutes of work to implement it. More time to learn how to use the api than actually the whole process. It's always better to have native support than external programs that do extra stuff. Btw thanks for mentioning my little program. I almost forgot about it! It's nice to have it cause i know a lot of people are looking at what you're playing, so i made it to help others see me and maybe motivate them to join as well and that's exactly the reason i'd love to see it native.
I know that it's not a lot of work, I just feel it's better suited to an external tool like yours as it keeps LFS leaner.
Quote from Scawen :Thanks for the information. That crash (0xc0000005) is a memory access violation.

Unfortunately the offset of the instruction that caused the crash is not within the LFS exe. It might be in D3D or the Pimax drivers (or the graphics card drivers). That doesn't prove that LFS is not at fault but it doesn't prove it is at fault and certainly does mean I can't locate the problem.

I have the same issue again. Also after PItool update (to version 1.0.1.259). :-( But other VR-games (like Fruit Ninja or Vanishing Realsm) work fine. BTW: Reinstallation of the current NVIDIA drivers does not solve the issue this time.

If I'm not mistaken other drivers also have pimax headsets. Nobody else has problems?

I still post the deb.log.
May 24 18:06:15 LFS : 0.6U11
May 24 18:06:15 timer resolution 1 ms
May 24 18:06:15 read config
May 24 18:06:15 get command line
May 24 18:06:15 preinit d3d
May 24 18:06:15 started Direct3D 9Ex
May 24 18:06:15 number of adapters : 1
May 24 18:06:15 adapter 0 - valid modes : 57
May 24 18:06:15 load font
May 24 18:06:15 -----
May 24 18:06:16 max texture size 16384
May 24 18:06:16 can do shadows
May 24 18:06:16 can do multi tex
May 24 18:06:16 load language
May 24 18:06:16 initialisations
May 24 18:06:16 human system
May 24 18:06:16 tables
May 24 18:06:16 helmet
May 24 18:06:16 controllers
May 24 18:06:16 load objects
May 24 18:06:16 start intro
May 24 18:06:16 end of initialisation
May 24 18:06:17 Controller 1 (Logitech G27 Racing Wheel USB) :
May 24 18:06:17 Added 5 axes
May 24 18:06:17 Blackwood
May 24 18:06:23 Next LOD
May 24 18:06:23 Next LOD
May 24 18:06:24 Next LOD
May 24 18:06:24 Meshes : 40
May 24 18:06:24 init sound
May 24 18:07:11 open VR

And the application error event:

Name der fehlerhaften Anwendung: LFS.exe, Version: 0.0.0.0, Zeitstempel: 0x5e90a6d7
Name des fehlerhaften Moduls: unknown, Version: 0.0.0.0, Zeitstempel: 0x00000000
Ausnahmecode: 0xc0000005
Fehleroffset: 0x38ea0613
ID des fehlerhaften Prozesses: 0x1668
Startzeit der fehlerhaften Anwendung: 0x01d631e540bfb21a
Pfad der fehlerhaften Anwendung: D:\LFS\LFS.exe
Pfad des fehlerhaften Moduls: unknown
Berichtskennung: 7c7ef346-1c23-472c-9b0d-1ffacedcf6b2
Vollständiger Name des fehlerhaften Pakets:
Anwendungs-ID, die relativ zum fehlerhaften Paket ist:

I will report to the pimax forum as soon as possible.
-
(THE WIZARD DK) DELETED by THE WIZARD DK : offtopic not needed
I've got a rift cv1 and tried the patch. I start the game with LFS.exe /rift=on, I've reset the nvidia settings and the game stutters a lot. Oculus does not show dropped frames, but it's not smooth at all.

This is a recording of using the rift (and keeping my head still)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHNMQNn-bEA
Attached images
LFS-Version.png
I'm sorry for the late feedback. In the meantime LFS works again with my Pimax headset. But I'm not sure, which step resolve the issue. Perhaps reseting Nvidia settings? Normaly I do not change GPU/driver settings in the control panel.
Quote from MaartenB :I've got a rift cv1 and tried the patch. I start the game with LFS.exe /rift=on, I've reset the nvidia settings and the game stutters a lot. Oculus does not show dropped frames, but it's not smooth at all.

This is a recording of using the rift (and keeping my head still)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHNMQNn-bEA

LFS is not able to run smooth with 60Hz or 90Hz because the tickrate is 100Hz.

Scawen please tell your "Motorsports", that 600 Hz are enough and they should change their systems from 1000 Hz Tickrate to 600 Hz Tickrate. I bet LFS will otherwise never be smooth.

And why run LFS out of 50 Hz Vsync after some minutes? Other Games stay in Vsync everytime.

Hoping LFS learn to stay in Vsync with DirectX 11.
Ok, I was under the impression the rift would work great because there is even a rift start parameter. This news article suggests it works great https://www.lfs.net/news/1022 maybe something's changed.
seems that you are new to the party but no, this jerking has not been addressed yet. Its in the works though and I guess it's top priority because VR is going to be eehh.. Never mind, not going to start that discussion again Smile
Would be nice if it was stated on the front page that there is no vr support (yet). By reading your sarcasm, vr is probably not gonna be here in the foreseeable future. Thanks for the info.
? LFS has one of the best VR support of any sim out there. The reason for the stutters is a mismatch between the physics engine's update cycle (100hz) and the headset's FPS (90hz, 80hz for Rift S).
Quote from MaartenB :Would be nice if it was stated on the front page that there is no vr support (yet).

That would be not correct. There is VR support (some say it's one of the best between all racing sims),it's just not as perfect as you would like due limitations of both VR devices and LFS software. (read the post above which exact limitations)
I'm not gonna argue, I appreciate the efforts made, it looks promising. I'll come back if it's in a state that works for me. Thanks for the support.
Quote from MaartenB :I'm not gonna argue, I appreciate the efforts made, it looks promising. I'll come back if it's in a state that works for me. Thanks for the support.

Considering very many had come to LFS due to it having what is claimed by so many as the best VR support for a racing sim id say the issue is with your end of things.

Quote from cargame.nl :seems that you are new to the party but no, this jerking has not been addressed yet. Its in the works though and I guess it's top priority because VR is going to be eehh.. Never mind, not going to start that discussion again Smile

been around 10 years now believe it or not so i doubt it will cease to be a thing for a long time
Quote from MaartenB :I'm not gonna argue, I appreciate the efforts made, it looks promising. I'll come back if it's in a state that works for me. Thanks for the support.

Hope you don't hold your breath looking for something that works better than LFS for VR.
Quote from MaartenB :Would be nice if it was stated on the front page that there is no vr support (yet). By reading your sarcasm, vr is probably not gonna be here in the foreseeable future. Thanks for the info.

LFS was very early adopter of VR support and it was breaking limits in many aspects, pioneering the UI, real mirrors, etc... Calling this "no vr support" feels to me just like straight insult to the developers (who already got their flak back then, because people were like "Yo Scawen, wasting time with VR instead of tire physics, aren't ya?!", so now you come from the opposite side Big grin ).

Unfortunately LFS got to its limit of "quick returns" because its physics simulation works at 100Hz, basically the only frequency which is not friendly to VR displays. It's a known issue and Scawen is aware of that and stated he will tackle it... at some appropriate time. (this is not an easy issue to fix, basically he has to either rewrite physics engine.. something being considered also due to other reasons, not just VR... or adding interpolation layer between physics and graphics to smooth the transition between positions ... either way we are talking rather about weeks/months of work than hours/days)

While other sims added VR support too and eventually made changes to surpass LFS in some areas.

So if you are coming *now*, your perception may be skewed and think the others are ahead... but it was for long time other sims just catching up to the level of VR support in LFS.
Quote from Ped7g :LFS was very early adopter of VR support and it was breaking limits in many aspects, pioneering the UI, real mirrors, etc... Calling this "no vr support" feels to me just like straight insult to the developers (who already got their flak back then, because people were like "Yo Scawen, wasting time with VR instead of tire physics, aren't ya?!", so now you come from the opposite side Big grin ).

Unfortunately LFS got to its limit of "quick returns" because its physics simulation works at 100Hz, basically the only frequency which is not friendly to VR displays. It's a known issue and Scawen is aware of that and stated he will tackle it... at some appropriate time. (this is not an easy issue to fix, basically he has to either rewrite physics engine.. something being considered also due to other reasons, not just VR... or adding interpolation layer between physics and graphics to smooth the transition between positions ... either way we are talking rather about weeks/months of work than hours/days)

While other sims added VR support too and eventually made changes to surpass LFS in some areas.

So if you are coming *now*, your perception may be skewed and think the others are ahead... but it was for long time other sims just catching up to the level of VR support in LFS.

I wouldn't say any sims have surpassed LFS in VR. For both ACC and iRacing you have to turn your settings down so low that LFS looks better, yet LFS still feels "right". The UI in ACC is messed up at times (for some reason the menu is always 45deg to my left by default) and iRacing's mirrors don't function like real mirrors do.

LFS does everything better than other sims when it comes to VR.
Except being able to produce a smooth video.. Quite essential.

If as a community you need to tell newcomers that its by design and that this sim is ahead so much in time.. Is just... No words.

Hilarious.
Quote from cargame.nl :Except being able to produce a smooth video.. Quite essential.

If as a community you need to tell newcomers that its by design and that this sim is ahead so much in time.. Is just... No words.

Hilarious.

When other sims struggle to even maintain 90 FPS on most machines at low settings... LFS still has the advantage
Quote from cargame.nl :Except being able to produce a smooth video.. Quite essential.

If as a community you need to tell newcomers that its by design and that this sim is ahead so much in time.. Is just... No words.

Hilarious.

When it comes to VR, your comments mean nothing as you have a biased unfounded view, you do not like VR and one of a few that feel the same, while the masses prefer it. I have many thousands of hours gaming including with VR and Racing sims from A.C and Pcars 1+2 also Iracing and none of them provide an easier and more comfortable experience than with LFS.

Any of the issues with LFS in VR are also present without using VR. This "smooth video" issue you state is something i have read about but honestly not noticed apart from if you focus on the scenery which also happens with non-vr
What my opinion about VR is has exactly zero to do with it. The problem is that you have a biased view on everything related to LFS. If the next release involves blue colored grass you still would rave about it. But, setting the whole "you this - you that" discussion aside..

1) New user comes with stuttering video
2) community replies, its normal, by design. In general this sim is ahead of its (VR) time. It does everything better then anything else on the market
3) new user says, well if its being seen like that then I'm out of here

Pretty bad order of events. The only structural reply would be; it's a known issue and being worked on. Not something like, ah ye.. Well.. Everything else is great, just buy it.

On a personal note, its stated nowhere that I do not like VR. Don't speak for me, you are not in a position to do that. Nobody actually. If you are confused or have questions, ask. /out
Quote from cargame.nl :What my opinion about VR is has exactly zero to do with it. The problem is that you have a biased view on everything related to LFS. If the next release involves blue colored grass you still would rave about it. But, setting the whole "you this - you that" discussion aside..

1) New user comes with stuttering video
2) community replies, its normal, by design. In general this sim is ahead of its (VR) time. It does everything better then anything else on the market
3) new user says, well if its being seen like that then I'm out of here

Pretty bad order of events. The only structural reply would be; it's a known issue and being worked on. Not something like, ah ye.. Well.. Everything else is great, just buy it.

On a personal note, its stated nowhere that I do not like VR. Don't speak for me, you are not in a position to do that. Nobody actually. If you are confused or have questions, ask. /out

The video stuttering has only ever been a problem for me personally when i tried to use open VR instead of the occulus setting meaning it opened steamVR which really hits performance

You say on a personal note it's stated nowhere that you do not like VR ! Look through all your comment's regarding VR in the past and it gives it away that you don't like it

Look at the following video's and see if you notice any stutter bad enough that it would ruin the experience greatly.





From what the OP makes it seem like he experienced, it's more likely something not being set correctly.
I have no issue to accept LFS is currently not ideal for VR because of the 100Hz physics clash with headset refresh rates. And I can also easily accept some person may feel about this strongly and consider that as show-stopper issue for them.

But saying LFS has "no VR support" is in my eyes just pure insult as it does plenty of VR support already and doing many things very well. And especially as LFS was *first* racing-simulator to have decent level of VR support, way before the other big names managed to adjust theirs sims.

So I was just trying to explain that to MaartenB, that his words are technically way too much incorrect (although I guess it was meant to mostly deliver how he feels about it, so I guess LFS devs could handle it and take it as feedback, which is always important and thank you MaartenB for at least commenting about it).
LFS is by far the most convenient and comfortable experience I had in any racing games in VR. You basicaly just sit on your fat ass with your wheel and the tiny (useless with 99% of other games) oculus remote controller and click the LFS icon from your desktop or from the oculus panel and Voila. The virtual keyboard from LFS works with the Oculus controller so you don't even need a keyboard and mouse.

The refresh rate is an issue if you are looking 90 degrees on your left or right while driving, something I had no idea was an issue before I read about it from others. Correct me if I'm wrong but the same issue exist for monitor users depending on their refresh rate settings. Maybe if Scawen could make LFS physics runs at 180hz that could help much.

Test Patch U11: Fixes / VR updates
(275 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG