The online racing simulator
New Version 0.6T - More robust multiplayer system
(226 posts, started )
do not consider the week working days, it is so much reserved for "standard companies" working only from Monday afternoon to Friday morning Big grin
i am experiencing some lag again sometimes. what puzzles me is this : if i turn off mirrors antialising. it smooths out lag 8not getting rid of it) in a way so i dont get it so much ? how on earth is that related to connections ? i mean. it shouldnt. but i see a clear change whenever i do this. from setting to setting. if i add shaders it goes completely numb on me. but if i set AA to x4 and turns off AA in mirrors. its running rather smooth. if i v sync , i see lines going across my screen no matter if AA or not(and shaders). but i also see here now that this could be th Hz issue someone mentioned ? but form what i tried and see. i see there is some kind of connection for AA in mirrors, towards some lag issues. im aware these are two different things and should not be related in any way. but if reproduced. i get the same results everytime. so my thought is its related to when logging in/out /on / off,going from /to pit/garages. perhaps if cars werent loaded correctly ? im fishing in the dark here. but i find it very weird i cant get a good setting for real. another thing is. whenever i use shaders. my picture gets so dark even my monitor settings cant get it to look as it should. may i suggest a contrast or brightness setting inside LFS aswell ? because shaders can actually darken ALOT. especially on my 600hz deep dark black screen. black is black here. not grey ! i think this is some normal options to have in games. would be great to see in LFS aswell as it seems we get more and more new stuff ingame that could need adjustments towards peoples screens/monitors. (i think i wakely remember someone else also had a wish for this some time ago)
With mirrors enabled the game is effectively rendering 4 views instead of 1, so inevitably this causes rendering time to take longer. Enabling AA will also increase rendering time.

As LFS is single threaded I guess it is not processing any network packets while rendering, so that increases latency.
Quote from PeterN :With mirrors enabled the game is effectively rendering 4 views instead of 1, so inevitably this causes rendering time to take longer. Enabling AA will also increase rendering time.

As LFS is single threaded I guess it is not processing any network packets while rendering, so that increases latency.

oh no you didnt just mention the "curse" ... Latency... Big grin

uhm.. i guess thats it . thx Peter. Smile

it also helped performance a little bit by deleting like 20 GB of single player replays...

somehow LFS like me alot better now Big grin

(i guess i missed deleting those for some years as i really never use them.apparently was set to auto save :/ )
Scawen, I have a question.
in the next version only comes the graphics to with it also comes tire physics?
Today I was asked about this in an LFS community and I did not know how to answer it Smile
Far more probable as per Scawen's posts that there will be the graphical update first (alone), then the tire physics will be in the plan.
Hey, I just wanted to pop in to say I was playing with the updated layout editor today.

I have mixed feedback. I will start with negatives so I can end on positives:-

# Negatives

## A. Fine tuning the height of objects is problematic

Why:

1. When an object is placed with o key, the X, Y and Z controls are not available.
2. Pressing PgUp, PgDown causes the object to deselect and create a new object unexpectedly. You then need to delete the other object.

## B. Selection States are confusing

Why:

When an object is placed with o, it is highlighted as though it is selected, however the move controls are not activated. The movement controls only appear when you click the object, which changes the selection color..?

## C. Losing selection when pressing space is not favorable


Why:

In the new editor, the screen can be crowded with 'Selection hints'. A creator like myself who wants to edit a layout will press Space just to see how the layout looks.

Before hand, when you pressed space again, your selection would be kept and you could resume. Now you cannot and it consumes time to get your selection back again.


Fixes:

1. Unless you can explain a tangible benefit why objects are no longer selected when placed, I suggest undoing this change, and automatically selecting the object when it is placed, like before.

2. Do not forget selections when pressing space - We use this just to see our layout without the visual clutter briefly - not to stop editing.

Okay, that's all my criticism.

# Positives

## The new selection boxes are good.

Keep them because before it could get really confusing to know what you had selected when there are just blue dots and often you would select the wrong thing without knowing.

## The keyboard shortcuts are good

I appreciate being able to raise and lower objects with pgup/pgdown.

Ctrl Z + Y is greatly appreciated too.

I think I'll keep an old copy of LFS around for layout editing now, because the object selection thing is actually a show stopper for someone like me as it significantly increases the amount of fiddling required to get objects into the right position. I really hope you can do something about that.

Have a good one,

Tommer
Just saw this old threat and thought maybe a good idea to build in a check if offical lfs.exe is loaded. Maybe makes it harder to crack the system Wink


Edit: I mean before next update release
Quote from tommer :Hey, I just wanted to pop in to say I was playing with the updated layout editor today.

I have mixed feedback. I will start with negatives so I can end on positives:-

# Negatives

## A. Fine tuning the height of objects is problematic

Why:

1. When an object is placed with o key, the X, Y and Z controls are not available.
2. Pressing PgUp, PgDown causes the object to deselect and create a new object unexpectedly. You then need to delete the other object.

## B. Selection States are confusing

Why:

When an object is placed with o, it is highlighted as though it is selected, however the move controls are not activated. The movement controls only appear when you click the object, which changes the selection color..?

## C. Losing selection when pressing space is not favorable


Why:

In the new editor, the screen can be crowded with 'Selection hints'. A creator like myself who wants to edit a layout will press Space just to see how the layout looks.

Before hand, when you pressed space again, your selection would be kept and you could resume. Now you cannot and it consumes time to get your selection back again.


Fixes:

1. Unless you can explain a tangible benefit why objects are no longer selected when placed, I suggest undoing this change, and automatically selecting the object when it is placed, like before.

2. Do not forget selections when pressing space - We use this just to see our layout without the visual clutter briefly - not to stop editing.

Okay, that's all my criticism.

# Positives

## The new selection boxes are good.

Keep them because before it could get really confusing to know what you had selected when there are just blue dots and often you would select the wrong thing without knowing.

## The keyboard shortcuts are good

I appreciate being able to raise and lower objects with pgup/pgdown.

Ctrl Z + Y is greatly appreciated too.

I think I'll keep an old copy of LFS around for layout editing now, because the object selection thing is actually a show stopper for someone like me as it significantly increases the amount of fiddling required to get objects into the right position. I really hope you can do something about that.

Have a good one,

Tommer

Couldn't have said it any better. I'm also using an older version of LFS only because of the layout editor, which I always found it much easier and quicker to use. I've really tried to get used to the new editor but I simply can't.
I haven't tried out newest one yet properly due lack of interest... but I should not be hard. So... now I gotta try!


EDIT: Indeed, it feels odd and editing will be albeit slower. But not impossible mission!
Quote from RC-Maus :Just saw this old threat and thought maybe a good idea to build in a check if offical lfs.exe is loaded. Maybe makes it harder to crack the system Wink

Well, that's the point of "cracking" process, to remove all similar checks. The more (and more non-obvious, buried deep in the other code) checks you add, the harder the cracking process is (but then also it may get more difficult to make it bug free, or modify some parts of game later, and developing clever-enough checks is often time consuming).

Modern systems like "denuvo" go to a lengths where part of game code is transformed from binary back into custom interpreted language, encrypted and it's being executed inside custom virtual machine provided by the protection framework, using all kinds of self-check, polymorphic self-alteration, and similar (other SW using most of these techniques are rootkits/viruses ... hmm, just saying, not implying anything), to make removal of these checks difficult.

(I'm not asking Scawen to work on these, I believe it's wasted time, if somebody is skilled enough, game designed as LFS (with dedicated server executable available, i.e. all vital code parts are available to regular customers, so the cracker can start there and just remove checks) is sort of "easy" to crack ... makes me just wonder, how somebody skilled enough doesn't feel ashamed, and what is the motivation. The game itself is super cheap already, and you are supporting three (two and half) developers directly, no big corporation, etc... how can people still pirate game like this is beyond my understanding, I would feel so ashamed). (the whole "lfspro" situation is just pathetic, especially when they start to whine on forums, they use all those pathetic excuses, like from a book, pure raw definition of pathetic people ... but they will probably never in their life realize, what they did, so they will never ever understand how dumb they are)
Quote from Ped7g :Well, that's the point ...

I'm not a programmer so I perhaps can't see it in a programmers way. But I understand what your saying.


The question is how skilled are the hackers. So maybe making it bit harder is just enough.

And I don't understand it at all. I mean why spending money hosting a illegal masterserver. Like u say LFS isn't expensive. And this behavior is destroying the comunity.

Really have respect for Scawen. Not sure if I would have had motivation to work further on LFS.
It's the evergoing race between devs and crackers - whatever you do to add more protection,will be cracked at some point anyway,so it's up to devs to decide how much time is worth to hold crackers off for a week or two.
The good part of LFS - you cannot join online hosts without aproved account,so the most important aspect (online racing) is denied to crackers,they're forced to use IP hosts instead,which has some drawbacks to their users (no skin downloads,no stats,no simple click and join method). Unfortunatelly some were able to simulate LFSW to provide online racing in their own environment - again an evergoing battle,where devs were able to shut some of them down.
Anyway - most of the crackers will never buy licence,I have heard many reasons like "I'll never pay money for just a game" (which is the most funny one,as they're usually running the games on expensive hardware purchased exclusively for gaming) or "I have no money","I have no bank card" etc... So the complete riddance of cracking won't bring much earnings to devs.
Also, anything can be hacked, cracked. Nothing is safe. It's just a matter of keeping those ***** in their own crap servers
I don't know how the crack works but if I had to assume then it would be packet sniffing from a real activation, then replicate that on a controlled environment. Also if you say the game is so cheap why don't you buy S3 for everybody? Smile
Quote from benjamin.torres :Also if you say the game is so cheap why don't you buy S3 for everybody? Smile

I could, but I don't want to.
Quote from benjamin.torres :I don't know how the crack works but if I had to assume then it would be packet sniffing from a real activation, then replicate that on a controlled environment. Also if you say the game is so cheap why don't you buy S3 for everybody? Smile

Not so easy how it imagines. It's will give you the oportunity to simulate masterserver but without authorization (login and password) and protection your account. Without that you will get tons of crazy people in servers who you can't ban. For make authorisation you need look deeper into the game. Assembler and debugger this is your friends to a long time...
Just an idea think it's not so hard to aply, but was thinking to use the ident key for the hosters.
Quote from tommer :Hey, I just wanted to pop in to say I was playing with the updated layout editor today.

I have mixed feedback. I will start with negatives so I can end on positives:-

# Negatives

## A. Fine tuning the height of objects is problematic

Why:

1. When an object is placed with o key, the X, Y and Z controls are not available.
2. Pressing PgUp, PgDown causes the object to deselect and create a new object unexpectedly. You then need to delete the other object.

Thanks for the feedback.

The trouble is, you don't yet know the solutions or the correct way of working with the modified editor. Several very experienced layout editing people gave a lot of feedback during the development process. So all the points you mention have already been solved.

For the above point, you need to know the difference between O and CTRL+V.

O: Place a new object - it is not now selected.
CTRL+V (paste): Place a new object and keep it selected.

You can transition (toggle) between the above states by pressing CTRL+C (copy)

This is very useful because there is now a clear separation between the PGUP / PGDN keys either operating on the objects that have already been placed, or the objects in hand that have not yet been placed. Instead of both at the same time as it was in the old editor. Now you have the choice. It was very messy before, even if you got used to it.


Quote from tommer :
## B. Selection States are confusing

Why:

When an object is placed with o, it is highlighted as though it is selected, however the move controls are not activated. The movement controls only appear when you click the object, which changes the selection color..?

I think it would be great if you could read this post, which tries to explain how it works and the reasons behind it.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152-The-layout-editor-changes


Quote from tommer :
## C. Losing selection when pressing space is not favorable

Why:

In the new editor, the screen can be crowded with 'Selection hints'. A creator like myself who wants to edit a layout will press Space just to see how the layout looks.

Before hand, when you pressed space again, your selection would be kept and you could resume. Now you cannot and it consumes time to get your selection back again.

Press SHIFT+SPACE to keep the selection when hiding the buttons.
Now when you press SPACE again the same objects are still selected.
Hello, why can not we change the starting location when we want to be hot lap?
Quote from alireza d1 :Hello, why can not we change the starting location when we want to be hot lap?

You can : shift+u mode will allow to put a new object "start position".
Save the thing (a layout, .lyt file) that you can select when choosing the track.
ok.thanks a lot.
before I can to use [s] boutton but now not to be use this button for this job.
tnx.
Hi all i m new to game
happy new year thanks for the update
i hope we see in near future tire model update and force feedback update
other than that i m enjoy the game so far
cheers Smile
after i set the fov of my 2 monitors i can stop driving !!!!!!
phenomenal racing simulator
congratulations to the developers
Quote from mesfigas :after i set the fov of my 2 monitors i can stop driving !!!!!!
phenomenal racing simulator
congratulations to the developers

glad you have fun, LFS is a brillant simulator, and more is to come in a near future LFS
Be ready for the test patch session in few months Thumbs up

New Version 0.6T - More robust multiplayer system
(226 posts, started )
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