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All gone to shit in Ukraina, what now?
(630 posts, started )
Quote from Racer X NZ :

Nuland with the Nazi's



Both guys on the left and right are jews.
Several new governors are jews, including one of the most powerful jew of Ukraine (or even Europe) - Kolomoyskiy.

Yeep, nazi's everywhere...


FFS, it just one group of oligarchs fighting against the other, that upset the balance of stealing to much, period.

Nobody really care about people and exploiting nationalists\nazi\whatever is just the way to control people.

Now try reading an earlier post of mine.
Quote from [RF]-art555 :Both guys on the left and right are jews.
Several new governors are jews, including one of the most powerful jew of Ukraine (or even Europe) - Kolomoyskiy.

But Klitschko has to be a Nazi then, I mean come on He speaks German, he has to be

I find that appointment of those oligarchs a little dangerous, their net of (financial) influence is too tight in my opinion, but apparently from what i read the Ukraine' people like those appointments, and both guys stand for a united, independent country. Would they keep that new position or do they lose them during the next election? And when are those planned to take place?

btw:
Quote from flymike91 :Getting past the rumors and half-truths, it seems to me there are a few benefits that could come out of this for Ukrainians. If this power play works out in favor of the West, corporations are already working to develop energy infrastructure for Ukraine to be less reliant on Putin. Oil shale jobs are paying young men six figure salaries in the US as well as creating local economies full of well paying jobs where few or none existed. Added to the fact that frakking throughout Eastern Europe would be a serious blow to Russia's influence over its former vassals, it also provides employment when it is needed the most. Everyone from scientists and researchers to roughnecks and computer technicians can get in on energy production and increase the power and wealth of their whole country and themselves.

Russia is not offering energy infrastructure and frakking technology to Ukrainians because they don't have it to give, and wouldn't if they did.

It seems really really far fetched to assume that neo-nazis are going to form the next Ukrainian government when there are thousands upon thousands who do not agree with that philosophy...where are neo nazis in majority power anywhere? It sounds like a myth, or giving whole credit for the overthrow to one group that was involved among many.

I think the whole neo nazi accusations that are getting thrown around is typical Eurotype name calling. They aren't advanced enough to call rivals ...Stupid Mother ----- or Worthless cock sucker or a whole slew of names we Americans like to call out when calling someone out.

I dunno. This is a fight between the Haves over crap and they'll wind up using the Have Nots do all the fighting. Nobody gives a damned about the Ukraine people. All they care about is the resources and the pipelines.
Those poor bastards. All they're doing is replacing one group of thugs with another and one other country of thugs hates the new guys.

You know, it's too bad all us idiots that are low men on the totem pole won't get rid of these ****s that higher up on it. They all suck anyways and I have no use for them. We "elect" them and they screw us over. Every time.
Notice I didn't specify any country as it applies to all of them.
Humanity is at a state of development to where if we could just cull the undesirables, ( the islamofascists, the neo nazis and greedy idiots that think they need to control stuff in general) we wouldn't even need these governments. They've pretty much out lived their usefulness

Putin.... You know I was hoping we could trade Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton for him and have the guy as Governor of Texas. He has to be better than the two clowns running now.
Quote from Racer Y :I think the whole neo nazi accusations that are getting thrown around is typical Eurotype name calling.

This is site of our Supreme Council of Urkaine, this link is a proposition of changes they about to do.
w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=49832


If you click on Порівняльна таблиця 22.02.2014 you will get comparison chart.
If you use google translate this is the point they want to remove.
If it goes trough, there wont be punishment for this anymore.

Protip: it has something to do with this www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6vx7k0nNnA

Quote from Anonymous(almost) :This is site of our Supreme Council of Urkaine, this link is a proposition of changes they about to do.
this is the point they want to remove.
If it goes trough, there wont be punishment for this anymore.

I agree it reads fishy on its own, but their is a long explanation script linked on that main site too. The way I read it the old law could be used to impeach someone by declaring his action or whatever fascist/neo-Nazism without any precise definition for those two.
Quote from main part :Bill ohm "On Amendments to the Criminal Code of Ukraine concerning the abolition of the rules is to express an opinion on objection or excuse the crimes of fascism " expected to abolish Article 436-1 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine (CCU) on the n th ublichn objection or excuse the crime of fascism, neo-Nazi propaganda ideology, production and (or) distribution of materials, which are justified ochyny evil Nazis and their supporters.

Article 436-1 MCC aims not only to fight against the Patriots Ukraine and history teaching Ukrainian liberation struggle, as well as against people who simply dare to expose aloud any doubt at least some of the information that is related analysis of fascism or neonatsyskoyu ideology.

The absurdity of Article 436-1 of the Criminal Code is that the Ukrainian legislation does not have a legal definition of the concepts b "fascism" or "neo-Nazism" that is a single point of view on historical events connected with the struggle for independence of the country in the 40s of last century .

It should be noted that under Article 436-1 of the Criminal Code and fall as members of the Communist Party of Ukraine who claim to be heirs of the Communist Party since before World War II, the Soviet Union actively collaborated with the German Nazis (or the Nazis). Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and joint parade of Wehrmacht and the Soviet Army in Brest in 1939 were the culmination of this collaboration.

In view of the foregoing, there is a need to abolish Article 436-1 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine
.

Not really convinced, we use words like "fascist" and neo_nazism" because they have a certain meaning behind them.
Beside, they could just precise what "fascism" and "neo-nazism" is, the reason they removing this law is this guy, you could see them carrying his picture and this organization.

Slogans like "Hail to the nation, Death to the enemies", "Ukraine above all", "Hung commies" (now that I think about its funny how this law supposedly was removed to protect commies), "Hail Bandera".
Earlier I posted vids where two leaders of maidan, Aleksandr Muzychko and Dymitro Yarosh openly stated they hate russians, jews and commies.

Because of this, your explanation is not that convincing to me.

The good thing is, stuff like this communicate really well who is coming to power, the bad thing, they are fully aware that world is getting "troubled" over this fact and they want to ban using those slogans during their marches.
Nevertheless, the fact that even Tiahnybok is screaming those slogans is proof enough that even if they try to hide it for now, there are reasons to be worried.

Also, what do you guys think about this http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
I know its RT but I think they are pretty neutral, at least compared to some other news outlets.
It's confirmed in other media and it's a leaked phone call between Estonia foreign minister Ermas Paet and Catherine Aston. I'll post the phone conversation when I'm on a PC.
The snipers that shot at the crowd were hired by the Maidan leaders. They were not Ukraine police.
It has also been confirmed by the Estonian Foreign Ministry.

It had been a rumour for a few days but hadn't been confirmed till now.
Quote from Racer X NZ :It's confirmed in other media and it's a leaked phone call between Estonia foreign minister Ermas Paet and Catherine Aston. I'll post the phone conversation when I'm on a PC.
The snipers that shot at the crowd were hired by the Maidan leaders. They were not Ukraine police.
It has also been confirmed by the Estonian Foreign Ministry.

It had been a rumour for a few days but hadn't been confirmed till now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

It has been confirmed by Estonian Foreign Ministry that the phone call is real, not the fact that snipers were hired by the Maidan leaders. If you actually listen the phone call then Urmas Paet is giving an overview of what he heard during his visit. So basically these are still rumours as there is no proof of anything.

Ukraine is pretty f**ked up right now. Economy is in the toilet. Massive corruption. None of the politicians have the people's trust, etc. BUT Russia has no right to move his troops into a sovereign country. Especially under false pretext. There was no threat to Russians in Crimea. Until now it had been the calmest part of the country and no-one would dare touch them anyway as there is a Russian navy base there. Some Ukrainian politicians might be corrupt but they're not complete lunatics. Putin just saw his opportunity to claim strategically important territory when Ukraine was in turmoil.
Stop talking nonsense, people. I am actually really interested in how people even from the other side of the planet act like they know geopolitics of Eastern Europe very well. Let me make it clear for you: overthrown **** Ukraine's president was a dumbass, who had no skills, no orientation in geopolitics and couldn't do a shit to put Ukraine into a progression. V. Putin being a total ****, but way more clever than the former ****, manipulated Yanukovych and was actually gettin Ukraine more, and more close to its collapsion due to actions, dictated by Kremlin and took by Ukraine's finest idiot.
Luckily, bright minds have come into the play and Yanukovych got eliminated. No way the current new government is neo-nazi, neither is fascist. Why the **** that government should be called like this? Just because they turned down the communist, mankurt government? Let me remind you something. What about 90's era of uprisings of nations that declared a desire to be free from Soviet Union and start their own countries. Fortunately, they all together finally turned down Soviet Union and became free. So, let me ask? Should all those nations be called neo-nazies or fascists? Because some of yours statements makes me think that Central-Eastern Europe is full of neo-nazies, or fascists. Just stop, please. This is a ridiculous scenario and makes no sense. All I see nowadays that happens with Ukraine is the same scenario, related to those 90's uprisings - the bright minded Ukrainian citizens wants to get free from Russia. I don't see nothing wrong in that.
Quote from seniecka :Stop talking nonsense, people. I am actually really interested in how people even from the other side of the planet act like they know geopolitics of Eastern Europe very well. Let me make it clear for you: overthrown **** Ukraine's president was a dumbass, who had no skills, no orientation in geopolitics and couldn't do a shit to put Ukraine into a progression. V. Putin being a total ****, but way more clever than the former ****, manipulated Yanukovych and was actually gettin Ukraine more, and more close to its collapsion due to actions, dictated by Kremlin and took by Ukraine's finest idiot.
Luckily, bright minds have come into the play and Yanukovych got eliminated. No way the current new government is neo-nazi, neither is fascist. Why the **** that government should be called like this? Just because they turned down the communist, mankurt government? Let me remind you something. What about 90's era of uprisings of nations that declared a desire to be free from Soviet Union and start their own countries. Fortunately, they all together finally turned down Soviet Union and became free. So, let me ask? Should all those nations be called neo-nazies or fascists? Because some of yours statements makes me think that Central-Eastern Europe is full of neo-nazies, or fascists. Just stop, please. This is a ridiculous scenario and makes no sense. All I see nowadays that happens with Ukraine is the same scenario, related to those 90's uprisings - the bright minded Ukrainian citizens wants to get free from Russia. I don't see nothing wrong in that.

I'm guessing that the new Government really isn't going to be much better than the last one.... But a neo-nazi regime? LOL I think what has happened is that since this was pretty much a coalition of personality cults that took over, there's bound to be extremist elements in the mix. Those types usually have the loudest mouths and get picked up more on the microphones, but I don't believe this new group of thieves are necessarily Nazis.

Russia....
You know, you're right, after the cold war and the Balkans, I'm pretty clueless to the mechanics of Eastern European Politics.
But It seems to me that even after Boris Yeltsin got hammered and jumped on that tank, the West still did things that were antagonistic towards Russia.
We have a lot of y'all former Warsaw Pact countries now in NATO, Your countries made all these changes and reforms and was welcomed with open arms. Same with the E.U. Now Russia was pretty much doing the same thing as the WP countries and liberated Soviet Republics - yet no one asked them to join NATO.
Now of course something like that is out of the question, but in the 90's? Even in the early part of this century?

One thing no one seems to realize is Putin pretty much made Obama burn through a billion dollars we didn't have, just by running a couple a soldiers around and stopping it's discount with the Ukraine. I wonder how much is his antics costing the E.U.?
another anchor "stood up" in Russia Today: bcuz RT is so neutral and not controlled by Putin at all...

Also Abby Martin has given opprotunity to visit Ukraine because of what he said on air...good idea - to be sent to the warzone by the goverment who now dislikes her. She'll be back unharmed/alive for sure.
Quote from seniecka :Stop talking nonsense, people. I am actually really interested in how people even from the other side of the planet act like they know geopolitics of Eastern Europe very well. Let me make it clear for you: overthrown **** Ukraine's president was a dumbass, who had no skills, no orientation in geopolitics and couldn't do a shit to put Ukraine into a progression. V. Putin being a total ****, but way more clever than the former ****, manipulated Yanukovych and was actually gettin Ukraine more, and more close to its collapsion due to actions, dictated by Kremlin and took by Ukraine's finest idiot.
Luckily, bright minds have come into the play and Yanukovych got eliminated. No way the current new government is neo-nazi, neither is fascist. Why the **** that government should be called like this? Just because they turned down the communist, mankurt government? Let me remind you something. What about 90's era of uprisings of nations that declared a desire to be free from Soviet Union and start their own countries. Fortunately, they all together finally turned down Soviet Union and became free. So, let me ask? Should all those nations be called neo-nazies or fascists? Because some of yours statements makes me think that Central-Eastern Europe is full of neo-nazies, or fascists. Just stop, please. This is a ridiculous scenario and makes no sense. All I see nowadays that happens with Ukraine is the same scenario, related to those 90's uprisings - the bright minded Ukrainian citizens wants to get free from Russia. I don't see nothing wrong in that.

are you saying this person is a bright mind ?
Quote from fujiwara :are you saying this person is a bright mind ?

Photoshop, or the girl guides are having a dress up day.
Seemed to be one or two familier faces there.

But no neo nazis, at all. I liked the video of these people explaining to the remains of the parliament what they should vote for, and what would happen if they didn't.

I think the English translation is, " Please, take our guns, please take our knives. We are peace loving and see no further need for them"
Close ?
Quote from Yuri Laszlo :Here's some peace loving people setting alight the office of the Communist Party of Ukraine for no reason other than **** you and your internationalism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrUMKDkarvg

i stopped watching at the moment when i read this under the video: "Ukrainian Neo-Nazis and fascists, supported by the EU and the USA..."
Quote from -NightFly- :i stopped watching at the moment when i read this under the video: "Ukrainian Neo-Nazis and fascists, supported by the EU and the USA..."
stereotypical...

And the above above video of the US supported neo nazi's lecturing Rigio about how they will vote was just a difficult fact that should be ignored ?

Even western media is getting up to speed on whats actually happening. A MUST READ from the guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/com ... xpansion-ukraine-fascists

And, welcome to the new Ukrainiane parliaments concept of democracy. Please remember, the Crimea is a seperate part of the Ukraine controlled by it's own parliament, always has been. The Ukraine govt is an illegal coup with no legitimate mandate. These are all facts.

The Crimea parliament has moved their referendum forward to 16 March, to give the people a choice about their future. For those of you concerned about democracy, you should fully support this. The Crimea is giving the people the right to choose, without US Neo Nazi's producing guns and knives and controlling their choice. I can't wait to listen to your disagreements about this freedom.........

So, here are the 'revolutionary leaders' disagreements with democracy. !

"The new Ukrainian government has declared the referendum illegal and opened a criminal investigation against Crimean Prime Minister Sergei Askyonov."
And....
"Senior EU officials denounced the idea as "completely illegal" while British officials said they would take their cue from the interim Ukrainian government, which deems the referendum anti-constitutional."

And the assets the IMF wants to take are located where exactly ?

"European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said the assistance, to be discussed by European Union leaders at a summit in Brussels on Thursday, would require widespread reforms by the new Ukrainian government and the signing of a deal between Ukraine and the International Monetary Fund."

So, this is a 'peoples revolution?'

Here's a run down on Ukraines new rulers........
http://www.theguardian.com/wor ... raine-olexander-turchynov
Here's a point about their new PM "He has played down his Jewish-Ukrainian origins, possibly because of the prevalence of antisemitism in his party's western Ukraine heartland."

Would the US ever work with Nazi's ?, here's an article from the Guardian in 2004.
http://www.theguardian.com/wor ... sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
"The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that (George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush) the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy."
And this is very conservative.
"But the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year,show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power."
And that's excluding the info regarding his activities in the 30's and the funding of the Nazi's into power.

This one is completely unsubstanciated, just some info that is supported by other unrelated happenings.

"The question unanswered until now is who deployed the snipers? According to veteran US intelligence sources, the snipers came from an ultra-right-wing military organization known as Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian People’s Self-Defense (UNA-UNSO),” Engdahl writes.
Intelligence sources quoted by Engdahl say UNA-UNSO “is part of a secret NATO ‘Gladio’ organization, and not a Ukraine nationalist group as portrayed in western media.” UNA-UNSO members are NATO mercenaries fighting “dirty wars” in Lithuania, Abkhazia, Khazar, Chechnya, and Kosovo. They were behind the Soviet coup d’etat in the summer 1991."
"Evidence has accumulated demonstrating the Euromaidan movement was artificially created by the architects of color revolution – the State Department, USAID, and the Soros NGOs – and this movement, consisting in large part of sincere yet duped Ukrainians attempting to effectuate political change, was cynically used to install a preferred minion in power, namely Arseniy “Yats” Yatsenyuk, a central banker. Yats is, as the Nuland-Pyatt conversation revealed, the preferred choice of the State Department and, thus, the financial elite.
The Gladio element was introduced when the Euromaidan movement stalled and the coup seemed to be in danger of losing momentum. Past color revolutions have relied on lower levels of violence and, to a large degree, non-violence, but as the so-called Lotus Revolution in Egypt revealed (as did other elements of the Arab Spring), violence is a key and often preferred component of the order of chaos strategy. The so-called Arab Spring, as well as the Maidan coup in Ukraine, have not brought democracy, as claimed, but disorder, ethic and religious strife, and widespread violence and mass murder."

Google Gladio if you want to know about this.

This one is just for the LOLZ.
Which country is this image from ?, when ?, and what were the people in the image doing ?

The worst answer gets to buy me a copy of Goat Simulator, enter at your own risk. All entry's assume a knowledge of the penalty for losing.....
Loser is chosen by me.
No correspondence will be entered into.
#95 - Dmt
Quote from [RF]-art555 :I tend to not declare my opinion on things I'm not clearly informed or not seen by myself. Good advice for anyone.

This is the same thing that many Ukrainians tell me.




So I just went thru the posts of Nightfly... Amaizing how informed you are and spreading the shi* around...

People, please dont be a victim of any kind of media source.
Quote from Dmt :This is the same thing that many Ukrainians tell me.




So I just went thru the posts of Nightfly... Amaizing how informed you are and spreading the shi* around...

People, please dont be a victim of any kind of media source.


And all that internet war will result in nothing...
-
(-NightFly-) DELETED by -NightFly-
Excuse the translation, it's c#@!

"The village is situated on the plain Chongar eponymous peninsula. It is south of the Kherson region, right on the border with the Crimea. Chongar windy so that gusts knocked down, there is still snow in some places. At a distance of twenty kilometers along the road are two powerful roadblock. In Sivash, the water closer to the Crimea - Russian flag stands camp of several tents. It dug into the ground BTR make minefield. Inspect the machine carefully: do armed men in army uniform and a blue camouflage uniforms with the word "Militsiya." The camp has even field temple.
Twenty kilometers - like camp Ukrainian troops. Dug APCs sandbagged emplacements, tents under the national flag. Inspection is not so strict - in the trunk do not look. Senior says that most soldiers machines without a shop.
Between checkpoints - two villages: Chongar and Mykolaivka. Residents of several days panic - there are rumors that the local mines exploded dog, and be on the front line, villagers do not want to. In Chongar Wednesday closed school: web locals pathetically talking about the impossibility of "learning under fire APCs." On the track, both the village put on the blue and yellow flag: they decorated a bus stop and a pointer to Nikolayevka. Nevertheless, life goes on, it seems, as usual: men today are busy buying flowers, paying no attention to the military or journalists."


Short answer, "Yes, yes it is"
Quote from Racer X NZ :And the above above video of the US supported neo nazi's lecturing Rigio about how they will vote was just a difficult fact that should be ignored ?

I don't know, Racer, if you know nothing about soviet/postcommunistic propaganda... or on contrary, you are well trained...
I can list you "fascist" Ukrainians:
- Arsenij Yatseniuk, Yulia Tymoschenko (Batkivshchinna party)
- Leonid Kuchma, Rinat Akhmetov (Party of Regions - former party of former resident Yanukovych impeached by them also)
- Vitaliy Klitschko (UDAR party)

Accusations of "fascist menace" is like soviet psychiatry term of "symptomless schizophrenia" used for dissidents (political oppositon to system was sign of mental disorder). It can be used for any opposition.
It is quite disturbing because Russian fascist Vladimir Zhirinovsky, member of Russian parliament, was active during antiUkrainian campaign much louder than few of "Right Sector" on Maydan.
And as you can see it is quite dangerous when it can legitimate military assault on another country. Or can be alleged reason of assault on opposition or president - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2 ... sh_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash

Quote :

This photo is from pre-nazi times when right hand salute was way of pledging to American flag and constitution. It was changed to hand on heart after nazi coup in Germany.
Anyone seen this before ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM6gNDoZu2M
Fatherland Party Sergey Pashinsky found with a sniper rifle in his car in mid feb.

Quote from AndRand :I don't know, Racer, if you know nothing about soviet/postcommunistic propaganda... or on contrary, you are well trained...
I can list you "fascist" Ukrainians:
- Arsenij Yatseniuk, Yulia Tymoschenko (Batkivshchinna party)
- Leonid Kuchma, Rinat Akhmetov (Party of Regions - former party of former resident Yanukovych impeached by them also)
- Vitaliy Klitschko (UDAR party)

Good, but I think you may have missed a few.

Dmytro Yarosh, Right Sector neo-Nazi commander who said “our revival begins with our Maidan,” is now second-in-command of the National Defense and Security Council (covering the military, police, courts and intelligence apparatus).

Andriy Parubiy, co-founder of the fascist Social National Party, which later changed its name to Svoboda. He is the new top commander of the National Defense and Security Council.

Ihor Tenyukh, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda party, now Minister of Defense.

Oleksandr Sych, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda, is one of three Vice Prime Ministers.

Oleg Makhnitsky, member of neo-Nazi Svoboda, now Prosecutor-General (Attorney General), and has immediately set out to indict the leaders of Crimea who do not want to live under the new order in Kiev.

And let's not forget Oleh Tyahnybok who is the leader of Svoboda, of which he was also a co-founder when it was known as the Social National Party. Now he is one of the most powerful figures in the country.

While Tyahnybok sought to moderate Svoboda’s public image beginning with the name change in 2004, a speech he gave the same year showed just how paper-thin that cover was.

Speaking at memorial to a commander of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UIA) that collaborated with the Nazis and massacred tens of thousands of Poles, Jews and communists, he called for Ukrainians to fight the “Muscovite-Jewish mafia” which he claimed were running the country.

Tyahnybok praised the UIA and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists led by Stepan Bandera, who “fought against the Russians, Germans, Jews and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.” (For the terms “Russians” and “Jews,” he substituted extremely derogatory slurs).

In 2005, Tyahnybok signed an open letter to Ukraine leaders denouncing the “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry” who, he claimed, wanted to commit “genocide” against Ukrainian people.

There can be a very fine line between Nationalism and Fascism.

And well done with the image, your correct. It's known as the Bellamy salute. Used in America from 1892 to 22 December 1942.

EDIT: Just come across this, which is sort of confirmed by a Ukrainian Govt source. Who knows. Certainly not a confirmed fact but it will be interesting to get an official denial or confirmation.
http://3rm.info/44198-nochyu-i ... otym-zapasom-ukrainy.html
A source in the Ukrainian government confirmed that the transfer of the gold reserves of Ukraine to the United States was ordered by the acting PM Arseny Yatsenyuk.

Then theres this, http://www.theguardian.com/wor ... illions-yanukovych-russia

All gone to shit in Ukraina, what now?
(630 posts, started )
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