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Formula One Season 2012
(1284 posts, started )
Quote from BlueFlame :They still had to beat their team-mates.

you don't have to be at your peak to beat your team mate.
Quote from Mustafur :you don't have to be at your peak to beat your team mate.

Well, you do have to be better than them at least.
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(SCA-F1) DELETED by SCA-F1
Quote from BlueFlame :Well, you do have to be better than them at least.

One of which was older then Mansell, besides in those times teams put all there resources to the first car and the second driver got the scraps.
Also just because a driver may not be at their Peak doesn't mean they can't beat someone who is, there is still a thing called TALENT.

Blueflame why do you post before you think?

Or is this your actual thought out opinion?
Quote from SCA-F1 :Complete tat

If we all read words and comprehended something else entirely like you the world would be a joyous place to be indeed.
Quote from SCA-F1 :Then take ur head out of the sand and look at the screen instead of resorting to such simplistic terms. Of course u can never be completely accurate with opinions, especially as a spectator but we're 18 races into this season now, and there's a lot u can pick out from trends and actually watching them drive as Isaac already mentioned. Don't be so dismissive now just cos it suits u.

If u want to be really picky: just before R14, Grosjean had outqualified Räikkönen 9-5, whilst Alonso was 14-0 ahead of Massa in the qualifying comparisons. Go to 2008/9, and Massa often outqualified Kimi when they were team-mates, so what does that tell u... I know that's a bit of an ambitious claim seenas a lot has changed since 3 years ago, but qualifying is still very important nowadays and a good indicator of outright pace - even if it doesn't decide the race. What makes it more difficult to understand is Kimi - a world champion, losing out to rookie Grosjean in pressure qualifying situation.. why should he get outqualified so often by a rookie if he's such a great and deserving champion? Things like this are what separate him from Alonso and Hamilton. This leads onto..:

You are correct that Kimi has never been the fastest qualifying driver. The reason he's so great is his race pace. Another thing is that to me it seemed in 2008 and start of 2009 like Ferrari actually did everything like Massa wanted. Once Massa was injured Kimi won with acar that hadn't received any upgrades in months and was supposed to be 1.5 seconds slower than the top teams.

Also try to understand that Kimim ade mistakes in the beginning of season simply because he hadn't driven a car like this in 2 years and it took time to get him comfortable with the car. There is a reason why almost every single driver fail after having a year or two break from driving F1.

I would also like to note that Grosjean is actually a really fast driver in terms of qualifying speed. He's just not as good driver in the races. Kovalainen kicked Hamilton's ass in qualis and Mclaren had to put him to lousy pit strategies to keep him behind Hamilton, still no one sees Hamilton as slow driver. There are countless examples like this you don't use as they affected to some drivers whose personalities you like.
Quote from Juzaa : Once Massa was injured Kimi won with acar that hadn't received any upgrades in months and was supposed to be 1.5 seconds slower than the top teams.


0.5s behind Brawn and Red Bull at Turkey - which is as good as reference track as any.

Also, Kimi's debut year at Sauber had him in the 4th or 5th best car, not a Caterham which races in a sub-class of F1. Much more like a Mercedes or (LOL) a Sauber.

Kimi is a good driver, very quick when he has clear air. There's nothing wrong with him per se and he's a World Champion. What I don't understand is where this mystique that surrounds him has come from. Why do so many people cream themselves whenever his name is mentioned? That's nothing to do with stats or comparing him with other drivers, that's an emotional response and I don't see anything in him that would drive that.
Kevin Magnussen fastest in this mornings Formula 1 test at Abu Dhabi.
Lunchtime: Magnussen (1:42.651), da Costa (1:42.717), Prost (1:45.318), Frijns (1:45.878), Razia (1:46.793), van der Garde (1:48.193).


Unreal.
Go on cousin!
Quote from Storm_Cloud :0.5s behind Brawn and Red Bull at Turkey - which is as good as reference track as any.

Also, Kimi's debut year at Sauber had him in the 4th or 5th best car, not a Caterham which races in a sub-class of F1. Much more like a Mercedes or (LOL) a Sauber.

Kimi is a good driver, very quick when he has clear air. There's nothing wrong with him per se and he's a World Champion. What I don't understand is where this mystique that surrounds him has come from. Why do so many people cream themselves whenever his name is mentioned? That's nothing to do with stats or comparing him with other drivers, that's an emotional response and I don't see anything in him that would drive that.

True, but in Germany more than 2 seconds off the pace in qualifying (in both Q2 and Q3). It still remains a fact that Räikkönen won at Spa with a car that had received no modifications since the dawn of time and at the moment if I remember right the car was supposed to be over a second slower than the rest as they had implemented new parts and Ferrari had not 1.5 seconds may have been slightly too much. Remember that Turkey was 2 months before Spa. And it's not about Spa either as he was 3rd in Monza and 4th in Suzuka with the same car that was 0.5 seconds off the pace in Turkey and two seconds off the pace in Germany.

Why there are so many Kimi fans is probably explainable by his attitude. He doesn't care about anything else than driving and almost never made mistakes due to pressure (Iceman). Besides who wouldn't like his comments in the last race? The team was distracting him so he said what he thought. There's no act in anything he does. You either like it or don't but you can't deny his skill.

Also to note at that time 4th or 5th best team meant something completely different than it means now as the gaps between teams was huge. This year both Sauber and Mercedes could be classified as capable of winning cars (even though technically Sauber hasn't won a race). Sauber in 2001 was nowhere near that.
Quote from Intrepid :Sorry I mean cameras/winglet thigns, whatever the **** they are called.

Who knows how load/pressure is distributed through a wing when it ocntacts with something like a tyre or a distance board (how did he hit that? that's karma from when BUtton nearly hit him when he randomly stamped on the brakes behind a S/C a few races ago)

If this was 'normal' movement the mechanic would be thick as shit to try and lift it from that point and then revert to the centre of the nose to place his hand.

Could be, lets see what comes of it. ScarbsF1 certainly thinks its interesting!

E: Actually, there could be something in the fact that the supports could be broken, but I don't think the nose should move like that, especially with the ripples in the carbon?
Quote from CSF :Could be, lets see what comes of it. ScarbsF1 certainly thinks its interesting!

E: Actually, there could be something in the fact that the supports could be broken, but I don't think the nose should move like that, especially with the ripples in the carbon?

true, carbon is not soft in any ways.

must contain some plastic, so much for Non-movable aero.....
Exactly, it shouldn't move like that.

Someone also posted this:



Could it be that Red Bull have found away to use the nose to move the un-aerodynamic camera pods while at high speed?
The nose-cone is just a piece of thin carbon-fibre bodywork which floats a long way out from the front end of the crash structure. It's not rigid, so it will inevitably flex. There isn't really any trickery involved and Red Bull is certainly not the only team with that sort of setup. I'm not surprised to see flexing around, especially when the car is bouncing on the kerbs.

Look at the McLaren, for example. You can visibly see the dip in both the nose-cone and the front wing (put a ruler across the screen when the nose is highest and compare its position when it dips). The nose-cone begins to flex quite steeply about a foot forward of the antennae.

(Taken from autosport.com)
Hmmmm, yes, but one is under braking, where as one is flexing all over the place over a small kerb. I'd like to see a slow mo McLaren/other car gif over a kerb. I'm sure someone will do that at some point.

Also that image is from 2011, before the current changes to nose dimensions for 2012.
Quote from CSF :Hmmmm, yes, but one is under braking, where as one is flexing all over the place over a small kerb. I'd like to see a slow mo McLaren/other car gif over a kerb. I'm sure someone will do that at some point.

Also that image is from 2011, before the current changes to nose dimensions for 2012.

The nose dimension changes aren't really relevant to this discussion.

Also, the McLaren is not under braking. The high nose position is just before DRS activation at the beginning of a straight, and the low position is at full speed with DRS. The dip in the nose is due to the extra speed and its resultant downforce on the front wing.
Oh, I always thought they took those gifs from the first braking spot, my bad. Doesn't change the fact I'd like a look at the other cars under similar loading to the Red Bull.
Yes, that would be interesting.
Quote from Storm_Cloud :0.5s behind Brawn and Red Bull at Turkey - which is as good as reference track as any.

Also, Kimi's debut year at Sauber had him in the 4th or 5th best car, not a Caterham which races in a sub-class of F1. Much more like a Mercedes or (LOL) a Sauber.

Kimi is a good driver, very quick when he has clear air. There's nothing wrong with him per se and he's a World Champion. What I don't understand is where this mystique that surrounds him has come from. Why do so many people cream themselves whenever his name is mentioned? That's nothing to do with stats or comparing him with other drivers, that's an emotional response and I don't see anything in him that would drive that.

Well, because there are fans (alot of fans), who look at a driver as a person, as well as his speed. He stands out in stuff he does (in F1 terms anyway), people see he does shit that "normal" people also do. That is appealing to people. And he is always the same. He is not like so many others who change their faces every time they are in front of a camera. Like Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel just to name the protagonists. Thats why Button and Vebber are such cool guys, when they speak you believe them. When Vettel or Alonso speak on TV, you just wanna punch them in their Fu***** face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk1GnB331WQ
http://community.evo.co.uk/forums/thread.cfm?threadID=87917
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBMRsY_UI4E

Thats why Kimi has so much fans, and other shittards may be as fast they want to be, but they will always be just that, fast and nothing more. Like what you want, my 2 cents .
Which is absolutely fine - people like who they like. I see little more than a Nick Heidfeld that drinks and swears, but that's just my opinion.
Ugh, you just reminded me of the irritating Nick Heidfeld fans that sprung up when he was booted out of Formula One at the end of 2009. Suddenly some were claiming he was a superstar that was somehow unlucky not to have won multiple championships. The same people were thinking he was in with a shot of a Ferrari drive for next season.
Quote from CSF :Ugh, you just reminded me of the irritating Nick Heidfeld fans that sprung up when he was booted out of Formula One at the end of 2009. Suddenly some were claiming he was a superstar that was somehow unlucky not to have won multiple championships. The same people were thinking he was in with a shot of a Ferrari drive for next season.

in the end it all came down to Mclaren choosing Kimi instead of him that made them dream.
so much tl:dr, this damn thread is now a debate and there is no point going on
ALL these posts are dumb because apparently everyone is experts in formula one and even knows how good a car is by looking at it.
Having a debate on a forum! THE IDIOCY!

If its tl;dr for you then clearly you don't have the interest/attention span to be involved in the discusion so why post? Sometimes you have to make a long post otherwise you don't back up what you're saying with facts. But seeing as most of your posts are just a picture with nothing decent to add it would imply you're too stupid to be able to understand that.

Seeing as you act like a 5 year old on teamspeak on a pretty regular basis, I know this is true.
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(aroX123) DELETED by Flame CZE : Can you ever make a post using normal language?
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(SCA-F1) DELETED by SCA-F1
Im a finn and I think that Räikkönen is a insolent brick. What did I win?

Sure he knows how to drive fast and I cheer for him every race but still sometimes his behavior makes me want to strangle puppies.

Formula One Season 2012
(1284 posts, started )
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