The online racing simulator
Idea: LFS Donations
(75 posts, closed, started )
Quote from PaulC2K :And its still worth every penny Todd.

Thanks.

Quote :Out of interest, are you guys aware that your early-ish testers still have the 1yr unlimited licence?

No, I had no idea. You sure? I'm not too worried about it quite frankly, but maybe need to have the guys take a look at it.

Quote :im pretty sure i did the last time i looked although seeing as i spent 6mth with a dodgy USB lead and only got it fixed when spotting Peter in Turin back in June... and how come its always him im seeing and never you?

Ah, yes, it's just bad timing I think. The new guys are in Slovakia and we so far have not all gotten together in the Netherlands to work (Trencin, SK, instead a couple of times per year). The last event I went to I think was the 1/8 Euros in Luxembourg. This was quite some time ago though. Probably before we released V1, come to think of it.

Quote :
Personally i wouldnt have a problem paying for additional content

<snip>

I'd be happy to pay for additional content too. Whatever they put out and want to sell I'll most likely buy In the mean time though, there is so much content already that I still haven't even driven all the tracks, much less in reverse, nor have I had serious seat time in all the cars. So I've got plenty of unexplored areas in LFS for quite some time yet. On the other hand, additional content is always welcome.
Quote from garph :We could use the money to buy 1000 monkeys and some old computers and see if they can finish LFS!?

Nah.

All you'd get is another Need For Speed sequel.
No.

They set the prices, if they failed to plan properly its not our fault, its theirs. They dont have a publisher pushing them and making them stick to a schedule, we have to assume that role if we want to see anything finished from them. We basically have taken that role anyways, we are funding their development literally, paying for a beta ffs, what else you want?

Give them extra money for something they should be doing anyways? you might aswell go get some kneepads and kneel under scawens desk.
Quote from jtw62074 :
No, I had no idea. You sure? I'm not too worried about it quite frankly, but maybe need to have the guys take a look at it.

Just checked now and it says my licence is expired, however im pretty sure that for a few of the events early last year (maybe late 05) i was able to join the event without any hassle. I guess theres the possibility it was taking track purchased credits i had from my account rather than using an extended/expired 1yr licence.

I dont know if theres a specific way to check short of clicking on 'Register Now' and seeing what happens (which could be it takes a credit without asking for confirmation, meh sod it!... okay i'll try with a track ive bought!! i thought Amstetten was Heemsteade or however its spelt, looks similar from the pic)

YEY, Paulie wins!
Quote :Information
You have a valid VRC Racing License and are registered free of charge. Success!

and a quick check of my balance, still says 28 credits

Quote :Racing license statistics
28-11-2004 - 01-01-2006 Expired

My credit purchase shows added credits from tracks, but none removed (but then it does say 'purchase history' so maybe it doesnt all activity).

If you need me to run any test then drop me a PM and i can check things for you whenever you need confirmation of any changes etc.

Paul
Quote from RMachucaA :No.

They set the prices, if they failed to plan properly its not our fault, its theirs. They dont have a publisher pushing them and making them stick to a schedule, we have to assume that role if we want to see anything finished from them. We basically have taken that role anyways, we are funding their development literally, paying for a beta ffs, what else you want?

Give them extra money for something they should be doing anyways? you might aswell go get some kneepads and kneel under scawens desk.

I hope thats not suggesting that if the unthinkable happened and progress was stretched further than they could manage that you'd rather see them fail than try to help them out?
I can understand to a point that they're in complete control and they could just effectively hash-job it to get it finished within 'budget' rather than run out of funds and be left with an incomplete product, but the way you put it almost sounds like you'd have no sympathy and wouldnt want to offer help of keeping things going, you'd done your bit and that was your role complete.
Each to their own i guess, and i'd agree the community shouldnt be almost held to ransom to finish their project if they've just took their time and its their fault its incomplete, but i would hope that people would understand both sides of the arguement whether some chose not to pay while others feel people should help.

Hopefully that scenario will never arrise though, though i have to wonder just how they are coping on the budget side of things. When you consider that progress is far slower than originally anticipated (possibly assumption, not sure thats been said officially, but i'd bet they never expected 2+ years between stages) so thats one heck of a strain on the original plans for developement. I dont know how involved Victor is these days, so maybe thats one aspect its had where it was felt Vic's part needed to go to lift some strain on the purse strings to help subsidise the project.
Im just quite suprised we havent seen or heard anything on the proposed Rally Pack from about 2 years back, it was commented on yonks ago and seems to have vanished quicker than a fart in a bathtub. I would have thought such projects might have been released as addon packs for minimal fees (maybe rally as a freebie as it was originally intended to be distributed openly).

I dont know what Eric is up to these days (not many people do since S1 and frequent progress reports are no more) to know just how much work he has on his plate when compared to Scawen who (i think) is left to do everything non-model/gfx based.

Still, its all 2nd guessing assumptions based on the little tid-bits we pick up isnt it.
Quote from Yaamboo :Here PC games are 29,90 euros.

Are we living in the same Finland?

Last time I purchased a new PC game (Supreme Commander) the prices for new games were hovering around 50€ mark.
Donations...damn I offered to fund LFS but they never replied! haha

LFS is 3 guys remember. Perhaps they dont want any extra money because then we would expect faster updates. We would demand it if we've already paid for the services.

They are watching and listening to our suggestions for this, suggestions for that...no matter how stupid some are. When they get to them, you'll know because it will be released.

I wouldnt push it, because they might turn around and say screw you all, cant make everyone happy all the time and call it quits. Its 3 guys...3 guys, not a corporation.
Quote from Motordirex :Donations...damn I offered to fund LFS but they never replied! haha

LFS is 3 guys remember. Perhaps they dont want any extra money because then we would expect faster updates. We would demand it if we've already paid for the services.

They are watching and listening to our suggestions for this, suggestions for that...no matter how stupid some are. When they get to them, you'll know because it will be released.

I wouldnt push it, because they might turn around and say screw you all, cant make everyone happy all the time and call it quits. Its 3 guys...3 guys, not a corporation.

Plenty of people have paid for S3, you dont hear them demanding S3 be released do you? I paid up my £36 before S1 was released, and i'd bet maybe a thousand others did around then.

If you'd been around longer than a month you'd have realised this is nothing more than the usual goings on here, people are always asking when the next feature is coming out, someones always making the suggestion that we should have spinners, NOS and fatboy exhaust pipes, and basically 75% of the posts on here are repeated nonsense. If the Developement team took any of this to heart they'd have ditched LFS before it even hit S1 stages let alone now.

This specific thread that you've chose to post in, saying 'Perhaps they dont want any extra money because then we would expect faster updates' is about the suggestion that if they paid more would it speed up progress, so yes i guess if the dev team did take people up on that offer then a few people would kinda expect faster updates, thats what the idea would be not to pay to speed things up while they take just as long.
Its people throwing ideas around, not making demands, just tossing ideas back n forth as to ways they could help, in this case it wasnt really going to work as it goes against what the Dev team have always stood for, progress at their pace, not at the whim of customers or publishers.
Quote from PaulC2K :Plenty of people have paid for S3, you dont hear them demanding S3 be released do you? I paid up my £36 before S1 was released, and i'd bet maybe a thousand others did around then.

If you'd been around longer than a month you'd have realised this is nothing more than the usual goings on here, people are always asking when the next feature is coming out, someones always making the suggestion that we should have spinners, NOS and fatboy exhaust pipes, and basically 75% of the posts on here are repeated nonsense. If the Developement team took any of this to heart they'd have ditched LFS before it even hit S1 stages let alone now.

This specific thread that you've chose to post in, saying 'Perhaps they dont want any extra money because then we would expect faster updates' is about the suggestion that if they paid more would it speed up progress, so yes i guess if the dev team did take people up on that offer then a few people would kinda expect faster updates, thats what the idea would be not to pay to speed things up while they take just as long.
Its people throwing ideas around, not making demands, just tossing ideas back n forth as to ways they could help, in this case it wasnt really going to work as it goes against what the Dev team have always stood for, progress at their pace, not at the whim of customers or publishers.

No need to get upset but you went from one direction to the other.

If people have paid for S3 already, cool, good for you, how can I pay? I wouldnt be demanding its release even if I paid, because Im an understanding and open minded individual. Others on the other hand, arent. I was just putting myself in the shoes of the developers, and of all of a sudden all these donations started flooding in to hurry up the next phase. The demands on improvements are alot as it is, and some are just outrageous! Now the same people with these stupid ideas have already donated money to have their lame improvements implemented...no thanks!

I say buy the S3 license for its release, then take what they give you based on their own creations and some positive input from the community.
Yes, and we have not actually what we paid for S2. Considering that S2 is a full version, the current one is not, rather S1.X or something, even though it says S2 Alpha. I'm not complaining, just saying that people can't really complain if they bought S3 before they even had S2. It's taking risks; as Indiana said, the devs could be put in jail for whatever reason tomorrow and people would most likely never see that money back or S3 at all.

That said, I'm the first one to complain of the way Scavierge (good insight, Tristan :tilt work, but I understand that we can't change it, just give opinions hoping that one day they will change things. Also, as Vykos said, the developpment is absolutly not related to money. What would you want them to do? Produce faster because they're richer? No... what people would want them to do is hire somebody else to help doing LFS, which is not going to happen because they just don't want to.

Also, appart from a few people that have helped in the development of LFS, they have never accepted donations of any kind, would it be money or work. If you go asking them if you can help Scawen or Eric, they'll most likely not answer. The only time it happens is when they need help with something side-related to LFS like websites, or when something really outstanding that creates a general cheer in the community comes up (DaveWS' sound pack that becomes official).

As for the question of who owns what, they indeed own it, and we're allowed to use it. Considering that LFS is 95% multiplayer and 5% hotlapping (and hotlapping is only interesting if you compare your times with others, so it can actually be considered multiplayer, it looses all it's sense without a database of times), if the LFS Mserver died, LFS would simply die. So we own the right to play, only. Other games, where you play in single player, you own the finished product, but not the code of it. You own the CD, but not the information contained on it.

Another thing, we can count ourselves lucky that LFS is actually not completed and actually not as popular as some other games. If it was the case, Scawen would most likely have no choice but to create patches on a more regular basis or he'd lose everybody, and we'd most likely have to pay to get the best servers possible, and continuous updates. In some ways, LFS is very similar to MMO, it IS a MMO, but not as massive as other games, something we should be grateful for up to a certain point (there's a balance to achieve between having people to play with and a game that becomes over-populated, inevitably falling in some kind of money making pattern).
Quote from Motordirex :No need to get upset but you went from one direction to the other.

If people have paid for S3 already, cool, good for you, how can I pay? I wouldnt be demanding its release even if I paid, because Im an understanding and open minded individual. Others on the other hand, arent. I was just putting myself in the shoes of the developers, and of all of a sudden all these donations started flooding in to hurry up the next phase. The demands on improvements are alot as it is, and some are just outrageous! Now the same people with these stupid ideas have already donated money to have their lame improvements implemented...no thanks!

I say buy the S3 license for its release, then take what they give you based on their own creations and some positive input from the community.

Ummm, not getting upset, nor different directions, just telling it like it is.
This forum has the same stupid topics repeated day in day out, LFS progress is done at the pace of 3 people - their pace and their methods. if 3 people say they'll do things faster for more money then its probably only fair to actually do things faster when taking that money. the dev team 'listen' to the 'when is it coming out' and similar day in day out and are still hear 5+ years on, i think a thread where people are offering to donate to help isnt likely to be the straw that broke the camels back.... and i think that covers everything, oh and plenty of people have paid for more than they've received, some like myself back in 2002 and while i'd love to have a completed S3 with everything the dev team have planned for it, i'd want it how they'd want it - done correctly, but the majority of people know the score and accept it (part reluctantly, part in agreement) but theres always going to be people wanting the world tomorrow and those people havent put the Dev team off getting this far.

To be honest/accurate nobody has actually paid for S3, whether they think/claim they have or not (yeah, even though i just claimed i did in the last post) as S3 upgrade has no price on its head yet, what you can do is send them money and that is put into your account, its a non refundable amount which you can use it for whatever you chose thats LFS related, whether its licences, uber LFS SMS messages or to access premium pubstats, i have £11.99 thanks to damn Pubstats taking something like 0.000001 from my £12 (damn you pubstats!! ) so i'll have to send another quid (or more) in order to get S3 someday.

If LFS ended tomorrow, maybe you could argue about not getting S2, but nobody would have a leg to stand on regarding S3, it doesnt exist and they have never taken a penny for it. The only great loss would be on the potential of LFS, not a financial one to the community.
There is a method to protect software from the dangers that people are worried about here (i.e. the developers stopping development for whatever reason), but this is usually used for larger projects.

Games are sometimes protected, but in this case (as money isn't the driving factor) it's debatable if it is a viable option. Would the community be willing to pay an annual subscription for LFS if there was such protection (to cover the costs)? Would the devs want to take advantage of such a service?

I think this should be a decision for the Devs to take - I bought the license knowing it was a very small team, and the risks associated. It'll be heartbreaking if LFS was to stop before completion, but I've had way more than £24 of fun out of it.

I mean, £24 will get me about 220 miles on the bike, I've done 7976 miles (so far) in LFS. If that were miles on the road, that would cost £870 in fuel alone. Not only is it a cheap racing sim, you actually save money (and CO2 emissions) while driving!

It doesn't get much better than this!
Also, how many times have you "died" in LFS? I reckon if damage modelling is ever beefed up that would be a nice statistic to log on LFSW.
Trust me if I could I would donate myself to help the development of LFS because right now theres only 3 people working on it.

And its the quallity of a game from a 80 person crew.

I can't imagine if they hired like 30 people to help with it...

Heck with that many people S4 might be a possibility.
Quote from GruntOfAction :Trust me if I could I would donate myself to help the development of LFS because right now theres only 3 people working on it.

And its the quallity of a game from a 80 person crew.

I can't imagine if they hired like 30 people to help with it...

Heck with that many people S4 might be a possibility.

As I said earlier in this thread, and as Vykos point out too, if you'd give money to the devs, they will not hire an extra team member with it. The devs decided to work with the team they have now, and I don't think the community has ever influenced them in doing so. LFS development is totally not money related.

Oh, and S4 has apparently been considered in the early development of the game, but that idea has been dropped a while ago to three stages instead.
:bump:

Let's really make a real donations, our developers maybe needs more motivation.
The money can work as money for other programs, etc, possibly we can show to devs, that we trust to them

I could donate 10$.

Let's discuss.
Nah, I am pretty sure LFS Devs doesn't need motivation which would come from as money/donations. They are working all the time, they are not having time to spend some money. However, any money they receive is pretty much they will accept greatly, but it does not increase the speed of developing LFS.

Well, when I get a salary, If I will also receive some extra, it is 100% possible I will donate, however, only 0,01% possible I get some extra lol


EDIT: lol this post was 2009th from me as early 2009



EDIT: and this summer, I am pretty busy however, not much LFS atm :/
Quote from UnknownMaster21 :snip

+1

I think that the biggest motivation for the devs would be the people stop whining on the forums and go to track...

LFS is "dead", not because the devs talk more or less, or if we get more cars or not... It is dead because people don't want more to race...
Quote from Si Mclaren :LFS is "dead", not because the devs talk more or less, or if we get more cars or not... It is dead because people don't want more to race...

Donations can be salary of devs for answering Forum questions
Quote from Si Mclaren :

LFS is "dead", not because the devs talk more or less, or if we get more cars or not... It is dead because people don't want more to race...

LFS racing is dead.
Same tracks, same cars, same physics for loooong time.
Boring for good, old racers. They are racing at other sims (or not racing at all).
-
(Si Mclaren) DELETED by Si Mclaren : 2 posts made one
Quote from Speed Senna :Donations can be salary of devs for answering Forum questions

I prefer Scawen answering only if he wants/have time, not for money...

Actually he said millions of times that he stopped reading (and posting) on the forum to get more concentrated on the physics...

Quote from vourliotis :LFS racing is dead.
Same tracks, same cars, same physics for loooong time.
Boring for good, old racers. They are racing at other sims (or not racing at all).

Strange, only S2 is boring... There are always good races with FBM/XFG+XRG@BL1, and servers are always busy
A way to "donate" can be to just add money to your LFS account.
:banghead:
Of course we always remember your contribution threads
Closing 5 year old thread.
This thread is closed

Idea: LFS Donations
(75 posts, closed, started )
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