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Why is the net so poor on FZ50 setups ?
(25 posts, started )
Why is the net so poor on FZ50 setups ?
Hi guys; We are curently running the season III of our league (17 weeks long nevetheless..) and the chosen car is FZ50. In the same time, I am poor at making setups.. so I just use what I can find hence the problem: for this car, not so many out there. Why is that ? (yes, I've tried the clasics, setupgrid or teaminferno). Anyone has some nice setups to share for this "naughty" car ? (SO4, SO5, KY1, KY2, ...) Thanks in advance.
PS: using mouse or wheel / races of 15 and 30 minutes long
Nobody drives the LRFs because they're too hard and most people are complete ****ing girls.

That's basically the problem.
Quote from thisnameistaken :Nobody drives the LRFs because they're too hard and most people are complete ****ing girls.

Not only that, but the FZ5 is totally unbalanced comparing to the LX6. It barely matches the RAC, but is a lot tougher on tyres, which is a critical point when it comes to long races.
#4 - Bean0
You can use the Hotlap Analyser on LFS World to see a lot of setup parameters for the uploaded hotlaps. This would be a good starting point, obviously you would need to adjust to make the setups better for extended periods rather than 1 fast lap.

Also, depending on the track, the FZ50 can compete with the LX6...we have done OK in races ranging from 90 minutes to 24hrs
It strongly depends of the track I guess... Indeed the FZ5 can keep up more or less on places where top speed matters more than handling... Now if that dop 24h thingy was hosted at something like fe4 instead of as4r, you would have suffered quite a lot in the boat
First of all, thank you for the answers.
Ontopic:
There will be no change regarding the car: it is this one and no other for this season (still 11 rounds to go). And in the same time, I really like the FZ. I am having difficulties to believe that out of tens of thousands of racers out there aren't a few with good setups.. to share .
The tracks I am after:
SO5 - SOUTH CITY - Town Course
FE3 - FERN BAY - Gold
AS5 - ASTON - Grand Prix
KY2 - KYOTO - National
WE1 - WESTHILL - International
AS6 - ASTON - Grand Touring
SO6 - SOUTH CITY - Chicane Course
KY3 - KYOTO - GP Long
FE4 - FERN BAY - Black
AS7 - ASTON - North


Anyone ? Of course I could really start getting into setup making.. but I suck. And don't have enough time between two rounds for hours and hours of testing.. fine tunning on the other side.. it's ok.

Thanks for the tip Bean0, I shall give it a try
2 decent setups for FE3 - Fern Bay Gold. Don't remeber exactly how they both arrived on my drive (one of them is from Harry..), hope the creators won't mind for sharing. For the very good out there, should allow you to go under 1:33.xx. With decent drive, they are ok for 30 minutes races (didn't test them for longer).
Attached files
FZ5_FE3_setup1.set - 132 B - 632 views
FZ5_FE3_setup2.set - 132 B - 587 views
Aston Grand Prix (AS5), anyone ?
Thank you, Silver, I was editing my post .
Found some for south city, aston and westhill. Just not the right way around, well all you should need to do is change the camper&pressures.

All are basically made by me. Don't usually share my sets in any setupfields, but passionately making them.

These should help somewhat...
Attached files
FZ5_fe3r race1.set - 132 B - 738 views
FZ5_ky2 race.set - 132 B - 803 views
FZ5_ky3 ok.set - 132 B - 800 views
FZ5_so4r quali.set - 132 B - 577 views
FZ5_so4r race.set - 132 B - 896 views
FZ5_we1r quali.set - 132 B - 670 views
FZ5_we1r ok.set - 132 B - 631 views
Thank you Jouman, I was starting to loose hope . If I understood corectly, for those on reverse, I need only to "mirror" the camper and pressures. Great !
=)))))pls look
Quote from luchian :Thank you Jouman, I was starting to loose hope . If I understood corectly, for those on reverse, I need only to "mirror" the camper and pressures. Great !

Not necessarily. Running a track in reverse can give certain corners a very different character, requiring different damper rates or even a different overall spring/ARB balance. That's largely down to feel, though. This is especially true in the case of pleasant increasing radius corners, which turn into viscious decreasing radius corners in reverse. That's part of why I love WE1R, though. It's also why so many people hate FE4R.
Two setups ok for 30min race; can go under 3:15 on Aston Grand Prix; how much under ? Depends on you.
The first one is a little modified version of Silver's AS4, in order to get a better cover for tyre wear, the second one from a pretty fast driver, Raoul.

Still wanted :

WE1 - WESTHILL - International
AS6 - ASTON - Grand Touring
SO6 - SOUTH CITY - Chicane Course
FE4 - FERN BAY - Black
AS7 - ASTON - North

Reading the above post, Westhill is back on wishlist.
Attached files
FZ5_AS5_Silver_314.set - 132 B - 537 views
FZ5_AS5 Sprint 315.set - 132 B - 761 views
And now the most dary demand of all: a RALLYX setup for the FZ5 ?
Can't do nothing to change it, it is the only car of the season. (fern bay 5, if that counts) .
I once fell in love with Fz50 (some time ago)
...and I immediately started to tune and fine-tune setups on my own.

Sadly most of the stuff is quite old and/or lost in migration...
...so I started to develop something for aston grand touring (see attachment)

But beware: it is a first alpha kind-of starting-point, meant to be driven with your head, balancing tyre-wear. Optimised for handling through the tighter chicanes in 2nd gear (no lower), reasonable acceleration but not theoretical top-speed.

Focus is by far more on the handling front and on steering-feel. I used my G25 at about 80 to 90 % force set in the driver and between 75 and 85 inside lfs. 720° of rotation as this matches the on-screen wheel and is relatively close to what real-world cars would offer when lightly tuned.

But beware: still with open diff. As I said: something to drive with your head rather thand your lead-foot. It can be driven with confidence however, whether with a full tank of fuel or from 10% down to empty. You will be able to nail your laptimes regardless of fuel-status. Just don't run dry, of course

So there it goes. This was purely done on a whim and is not considered final as of yet. Lots of players, lots of tastes. Fine-tune it to your liking (I mean it, this is important). Don't expect a man's car to do the driving for you. YOU have to know your way around the car, not the other way around!

Simple - YOU have to do the driving.
After all: Isn't this the essence of participating in / dealing with a racing-sim?
Attached files
FZ5_z31_AsGT_3^c10.set - 132 B - 839 views
Quote from luchian :And now the most dary demand of all: a RALLYX setup for the FZ5 ?
Can't do nothing to change it, it is the only car of the season. (fern bay 5, if that counts) .

Seriously dude:
Start with the standard-rallyX-set, modify the anti-rollbar first until you feel that it's right for you, adjust spring-rates and damper inbound/outbound later. Make sure that your wheels don't topple over after each of those changes, they should stay at a constant still-angle within certain limits of variation whether suspension is totally compressed/decompressed.

...This is basically how it's done. Through refinement.
Also diff-settings can have a huge impact on your personal success howling the beast around a track. This way you will get to learn the car better and aquire a deeper understanding about what it likes and what it loathes you to do and treat it right...

...hopefully I didn't write any nonsensical bla, right now. I'm not a native english-speaker, after all
Quote from DrBen :...hopefully I didn't write any nonsensical bla, right now. I'm not a native english-speaker, after all

Mate, you used acquire correctly in a sentence [altho spelt wrong :P] - 95% of Americans on here couldn't even do that
IMO, for AS6 or AS7, you can use AS5 setup with some modification on cambers/tyres pressure, it's a child game
Quote from DrBen :I once fell in love with Fz50 (some time ago) ..and I immediately started to tune and fine-tune setups on my own.

same here, I love this car.

Quote from DrBen :Sadly most of the stuff is quite old and/or lost in migration...
...so I started to develop something for aston grand touring (see attachment)

Shall give it a try, thank you.

Quote from DrBen :But beware: it is a first alpha kind-of starting-point, meant to be driven with your head, balancing tyre-wear. Optimised for handling through the tighter chicanes in 2nd gear (no lower), reasonable acceleration but not theoretical top-speed.

But beware: still with open diff. As I said: something to drive with your head rather thand your lead-foot. It can be driven with confidence however, whether with a full tank of fuel or from 10% down to empty. You will be able to nail your laptimes regardless of fuel-status. Just don't run dry, of course

The reason I started this thread is because I am not good at setuping. The example given, don't know to tell the diference between different types of differentials (funny words play)
Single thing I am good at, is fine tunning brakes to my liking to obtain stability on the braking.

Quote from DrBen :So there it goes. This was purely done on a whim and is not considered final as of yet. Lots of players, lots of tastes. Fine-tune it to your liking (I mean it, this is important). Don't expect a man's car to do the driving for you. YOU have to know your way around the car, not the other way around!

Simple - YOU have to do the driving.
After all: Isn't this the essence of participating in / dealing with a racing-sim?

Indeed it is, indeed it is

Quote from Kova. :IMO, for AS6 or AS7, you can use AS5 setup with some modification on cambers/tyres pressure, it's a child game

Most probably you are right.. will tell you after today's round
on the right track, me thinks... (!)
Quote from luchian :same here, I love this car.

cheers mate - and welcome to this semi-exclusive kind-of "club"

Quote :The reason I started this thread is because I am not good at setuping. The example given, don't know to tell the diference between different types of differentials (funny words play)
Single thing I am good at, is fine tunning brakes to my liking to obtain stability on the braking.

That's more than good news. It means you're on the right track. You DO understand brake-balance is important. And in truth there is no "right setting for every occasion". Brake balance is one of the most important factors when it comes to controlling a car, it makes a difference big enough to be faster or slower than the other guy who races with exactly the same set up except for this single setting.

Brake balance determines the choices of driving "styles" that you can chose. Sometimes one has to adapt quickly and without choice: think about a broken suspension-arm or a blown-out wheel... ...Brake balance is "off-balance" in a glance, once it hits you(...)

Balance is the most important thing. If you think a little further you will notice: good balance means good "handling". Good handling is when the car retains a good amount of responsiveness. From my point of view, very few "Hotlap-sets" still retain that responsiveness. Responsiveness means you can alter your driving style a little and still keep tight control of the car even in situations that get a little fuzzy, very suddenly. Like emergency braking to avoid that crashing pair of contestants. That's why a little touch of forgiveness is needed.

I try to tune a car so that it feels tight enough to really "race with the best of them" but not necessarily to beat their lap-times. If I can come close, I'm delighted - true. But if I can keep them in-check with clean driving, I always tend to enjoy things even better. That's why I want my car to handle, not to win drag-races or indeed: HotLaps.

So I started talking about balance. I always try to refine my wip-setups for maximum on-line stability. Sometimes in the process I discover faulty lines that I had already taken to heart previously and have a hard time relearning parts of the track. Actually this happens quite frequently. It is in those moments that I _stop_ searching for optimum speed and lapt-times and start thinking about handling, again. For me this is the most clear indication that I have already reached the point where going even faster means un-race-able handling. That's when I stop with the basic rules of "harder, stronger, tighter" and - sometimes - even take one or a few things "one-step-back", again.

This is how I got faster. Through improving my intimacy with the car in question. That's done through refinement and long evenings spent with my brain spinning in the red-line rather than my pixels dancing "help me, I'm too slow, gimme some good set-up, please".

No offense there, your call for help was comprehensive and justified. I hope this insight into my thoughts helps you to decide for yourself which footsteps YOU want to follow. Maybe you have a buddy in a team you're in that is better at tuning sets than I will ever get. I'm not real-life mechanic, after all. But I know a well-behaving car, when I'm at the wheel of one. In fact, I now know more about driving dynamics and road manners of cars than I will probably need on the road for my entire life (and then some). That's thanks (to a much higher part than anything else) to the enjoyment that lies within LFS and (in some specific parts) "Richard Burns Rally".

=============

Hint:
Since I developed this thing starting with a random old set AND using an open differential from the beginning... ...maybe you want to try a viscous diff first, then a clutch-pack later on. Porsche's GT3 of some model-year used values like 45% lock on-power and above 60% lock off-power. And that car often gets described as snappy on the edge and ready to bite your head off, like a snake. In my mind that's the usual journalist-post-recognition-marketing-speak that you will read in car-magazines that don't have good drivers as their employees. Think about it, what kind of differential will be more forgiving and may indeed be the better way to assess the effectiveness and efficiency of a suspension set-up than the other. "Viscous" or "clutch-pack"?

And why do all other cars with rwd other than mussle-cars NOT have a welded-type, locked differential?

Cheers,

Heiko
Hey, deep insight mate. I carefull red your post, and I must say I "feel" you but the truth is that I cannot dedicate as much time as I would like to LFS, and more, in our championship, we have a round each week where the other coleagues are unforgivenable (does this word even exists ?). Nevertheless, I shall start experimenting more, and play with the settings. Let's say that I understood how to setup the brakes, but could use some hints to reduce tyre wear, for starters .

Cheers,
Lucian
Quote from luchian :Hey, deep insight mate. I carefull red your post, and I must say I "feel" you but the truth is that I cannot dedicate as much time as I would like to LFS, and more, in our championship, we have a round each week where the other coleagues are unforgivenable (does this word even exists ?).

let's say I think it exists - it does so in German, at least. But rather than literal I will try to match the meaning in this case with another word: "erbarmungslos" (derived from '[comes back at you] without mercy': "ohne Erbarmen").

Quote :Nevertheless, I shall start experimenting more, and play with the settings. Let's say that I understood how to setup the brakes, but could use some hints to reduce tyre wear, for starters .

Cheers,
Lucian

As I said, you're on the right track. Let's say diff-type and settings determine how aggressive you can accelerate. It's about the same in effect as what you know about the brakes. You can brake once and hard, relying on the fact that the set is pre-set not to cook your tyres...
...or you can brake with more than just one impulse, e.g. to counter some bumps in the road right in front of your turn-in-point --- or indeed rhythmically to get the car sideways in a controlled fashion, maybe helped by a little special steering-technique (what indeed rally-drivers and drifters both use for different results).

A diff-setup is determined by two factors, mainly: average power-loss in the corncers (that's why I chose to use open diffs for set-development) and the way you want the car to react when using the gas. That has to do with overall weight-shift balance and your preferred way to steer a car (be it fwd, rwd or awd) with lots of adjustability on power or less.

Hint number 2: Watch Keiichi Tsuchia's "Drift Bible" on youtube. I watched it like 20 times already. And still learn new stuff that I didn't learn previously!

...talking about time to spare; Sadly that problem seems to affect us in an equal manner. Whatever you do: Make it fun!

Cheers,
Heiko
South City - Chicane Course (SO6), good to go under 1:12.xx
Kyoto - GP Long (KY3), good to go under 2:45.xx
The above lap times are reported to my level (average racer), they don't necesarily state the real potential of the shared setups. Please DO let us know if some of you manage to reach better times, and how much better.

LE: Forget to mention that I did take a look at Drift Bible. Only 1 time watch for the moment. Thanks Heiko
Attached files
FZ5_SO6_112.set - 132 B - 564 views
FZ5_KY3_245.set - 132 B - 602 views

Why is the net so poor on FZ50 setups ?
(25 posts, started )
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