Yup!

For some stupid, idiotic reason, I decided I wanted to chock the car in the assembly area before the race - it's on a slope, and I couldn't be bothered to hold it on the brake for 20 minutes, and somehow forgot that I could just put it in gear - how I forgot this, I'll never know!!!

So we chocked it (you know, a triangle of metal behind the wheel to stop it rolling).

As I moved away, the chock stuck to the tyre, went over the top, and I ran over it. This seems to have broken 2nd gear (I was in 1st at the time, so that is odd). I made a mental note to go from 1st to 3rd at the start. But at the start, 1st gear broke and stalled the engine. I think debris must have got in between the gears.

I restarted in 3rd gear and managed to get going - last now. I overtook some people, used 3rd for the hairpin (3rd is good for 85 - 102mph or 136kmh - 164kmh and the hairpin is taken at around 25mph or 40kmh). That cost me a second per lap.

My best lap was 44.2. The race fastest lap was a 43.9 (new record - the old record was 44.1). My qualifying time was 43.6 and good enough for pole.

I think a low 43 or a high 42 second laptime could have been on the cards had I had a healthy car and pushed that hard. I tend not to do qualifying laps in a race though (except when I come through from the back after a problem), so I doubt I'd have gone much quicker than high 43s in normal conditions.

Bugger!

Tristan, sorry to highjack your thread. I race in the MR2 Super GT Championship and am having problems with oil temp. Over the years I've read a few of your posts and you seem very clued up so thought I'd ask. We keep seeing oil temps on the Dash 2 of 150 degrees in a race. I since fitted a proper oil cooler thinking this would lower the temps but it has made no difference. Race technologies are sure their sensor isnt to blame so is 150deg too high for oil temp and what can I do to lower it? The sensor is in a main flow position. A sticker temp on the bottom of the sump doesn't go above 120degrees.

Thanks for any help...

Alric.

150°C is hot!

But a good synthetic oil, changed regularly (as I'm sure you do) should be okay at 150°. I'm guessing you're measuring that in the block (from an drilling into an oilway) just before it goes into the main bearings?

Much hotter and I'd worry. It might be worth ducting more air at the oil cooler, or using a bigger cooler.

Our oil temps were going up to 130° in the tank (bulk oil temp), so it's probably closer to 150° as it's worked through the bearings. We fitted a cooler in the return pipe to the oil tank, and it's made virtually no difference. I'm thinking of removing it to save the weight of the cooler...

I think you'll be okay though. Have you been racing it long? If it's been like that for a few seasons then I doubt you have much to worry about, but if it's a new problem (or you've only had the car a short while) then maybe it is.

Is it any better on a colder day? Or do the ambient conditions make little difference?

Tristan, what are the dimensions of your cooler and lines?

Erm... from memory and using a ruler to help my memory...

140mm x 160mm and the hoses are probably about 25mm bore (whatever dash size that is). The main problem is siting it somewhere where it gets airflow - we've put it on top of the gearbox under the engine cover, and I'm not sure it gets enough airflow. But the oil is quite airated (spelling?) at that point, which acts to insulate the oil from being cooled... Hence little difference to oil temperatures before and after fitting it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Anyway - here are some pics of my gearbox and the contents. As I type, the gearbox should be arriving at Silverstone circuit to see if it can be fixed. If not, then it's season over I suspect...

i shouldnt laugh but i cant help but point out the irony of this happening to the very man who found a club that pretty much told people to learn how to operate their new more realistic virtual gearboxes properly

Erm, what? What does two broken gears in 4 years of car racing that had nothing to do with my technique have to do with a silly forum club I made in response to whiners? It's not like I broke the gears because of a badly timed shift or dodgy rev matching....

Anyway, you should race - as you seem to be the current forum know-it-all whilst not having done it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

two broken gears

at least 3 if you include the broken 5th
what im guessing is 4th looks pretty knackered too

Quote :

had nothing to do with my technique

well for one thing stopping the car from rolling by putting it in gear could be considered a technique
plus it shows a severe lack of due diligence to get on track with an already broken gearbox... especially when you have to pay for repairs yourself

Quote :

Anyway, you should race - as you seem to be the current forum know-it-all whilst not having done it.

not everyone is willing to sacrifice all their social life time and money to race in some amateur f3 series

Quote from Shotglass :

not everyone is willing to sacrifice all their social life time and money to race in some amateur f3 series

trolling forums does not count as a social life.

Quote from Shotglass :

at least 3 if you include the broken 5th
what im guessing is 4th looks pretty knackered too

All the gears need to be replaced, but only 2nd and 1st were actually broken. 5th still works. It jammed in 4th as debris got behind the selector fork.

Quote from Shotglass :

well for one thing stopping the car from rolling by putting it in gear could be considered a technique
plus it shows a severe lack of due diligence to get on track with an already broken gearbox... especially when you have to pay for repairs yourself

In the heat of the moment you have to make a call. I made it - to continue and salvage some points. In hindsight I was wrong, but I made it in good faith in a nanosecond. That is why you'd be rubbish at anything to do with real motorsport; you're not prepared to make instant calls. The punishment is the cost. That's racing. I can live with it - can you? I'm not claiming to be a good driver or the best at judgement calls or the best at mapping engines or anything (unlike you). I make mistakes. You, apparently, do not.

Quote from Shotglass :

not everyone is willing to sacrifice all their social life time and money to race in some amateur f3 series

Good - the world would be a poorer place if everyone did. I'm fully aware it's an amateur championship that won't lead to glory, and I'm totally content with that. And I always have been. This is just my (expensive) hobby. My social life takes a hit, but then earlier this year I've met the girl of my dreams who is happy to support me in terms of time and commitment - so all is obviously not lost on the social front... I have a good group of close friends that understand.

And as said above; trolling doesn't count as a social life or an achievement. I work hard at my hobby as it is also my passion. I've lived and breathed racing for as long as I can remember, and now I'm getting the chance (at my own expense, which requires a LOT of sacrifices) to do it myself.

Maybe the equivalent is if you were at an Antenna Conference (sounds like the sort of thing that would make you orgasm with delight) and someone was talking about a new antenna with 0.5dB better attentuation (or whatever). No, actually that's rubbish. You're such a dull, boring, stereotypically German person that you clearly can't comprehend what I enjoy doing and why.

Hypothesis about the oil temps: I guess the oil is heated by the block, thats why cooling the oil does not help more than just after the cooler (I'm guessing that you do not circulate enough oil to cool the block) Cool the water better to cool the block.

The water radiators are huge - F3 engines are meant to run at 55-60°C to avoid detonation, and they have excess cooling even then. We want to run at about 80°C, so we blank off a lot of the cooling ducts and it works quite well.

Obviously we don't want to run the engine too hot or too cold in terms of coolant.

I think I'm going to remove the oil cooler and save the weight. Maybe use one of the oil additives that is meant to reduce temps quite a lot - http://www.simplan.co.uk/product.html - although I don't believe the marketing... Probably can't hurt to try it...

Quote from tristancliffe :

I think I'm going to remove the oil cooler and save the weight. Maybe use one of the oil additives that is meant to reduce temps quite a lot - http://www.simplan.co.uk/product.html - although I don't believe the marketing... Probably can't hurt to try it...

I suggest steering well clear of additives. Additives may improve one property but generally compromise others.

It may reduce friction but it could also reduce the ability of oil to adhere to surfaces as is required on cylinder walls and (non ball)bearings.

In terms of oil, there is nothing more you can do than just using a good quality oil and keep it fresh. These are formulated as a package which should be a good balance between all properties.

I hear what you're saying. I tend to agree!

The oil cooler was ineffective. There is no room for a water:oil heat exchanger. What other things can be done to reduce the heat rejection into the oil?

I'd love to aim for oil temps only 10 or 20° hotter than the water, but that doesn't seem possible.

Considering the oil tank is integrated in the bell housing (I have a hard time visualising this concept) increasing the oil tank volume will probably not be an option. Otherwise, that would be my suggestion.

Edit:
By the way, why would you want to reduce the heat rejection into the oil? Transfering heat away from the components is one of the primary functions of engine oil.

Tristan,

Thanks for your helpful reply. We are going to try get some bigger vents to aim more cool air through the oil cooler and see if that helps at all.

It is a new build so that's why I'm pretty worried. The engine is a standard 3.5 litre Toyota V6 from a lexus doner car from the states. The odd thing is my water temps are always stable at 97-99deg. (We have a large custom rad at the fron of the car).

We only run 13-18min races but basically the oil temp keeps rising and rising until it's time to slow down. We do change the oil after each race but I'd be much happier if the temp was 120-130deg but so far we can't seem to get it low enough.....keep on trying.

Quote from tristancliffe :

That is why you'd be rubbish at anything to do with real motorsport; you're not prepared to make instant calls.

and youre basing this on what exactly?

Quote :

I make mistakes. You, apparently, do not.

no but i at least try to avoid glaringly obvious mistakes

Quote :

And as said above; trolling doesn't count as a social life or an achievement.

1) i dont troll
2) who ever claimed it did?

Quote :

You're such a dull, boring, stereotypically German person that you clearly can't comprehend what I enjoy doing and why.

right its cause im german... that explains everything
fu and your british self righteousness

Quote from Shotglass :

right its cause im german... that explains everything
fu and your british self righteousness

Hey don't pick on Brits you ****ing sausage-eating ****er.

Love and kisses, miss you,

- Kev
x x x

Hi Tristan.

I didnt read all thru the postings here i just found the one were u did actually find the problem.
as im a workshop manager in a buscompany i actually had the same problem on 2 diesel engines. 10 liters 6 cyl.
they use a dry sump aswell and it was a rubbergasket on the oilpump outlet that was broken. so at idle the pressure went out thru were the gasket should be and when reving the engine the broken rubbergasket blocked the overflow valve.
it took some time to find it.but we did after a few hours.

might not be the exactly same problem u had but simular.

sry for bad english but i think i made my point.

Oh, and about the Oiltemperature.

there is a way (in my mind) to cool the oil som degrees without to much work. i know a friend using a simular way on his porsche powered beetle.

he just put a rediculus long hose for the returning oil. and made sure it was in the "speedair" it apparently saved his day.

its a lowbudget example and might not work on a F3 car but u cant blame me for trying to help. hehe.

its almoast the same as a oilcooler but less weight and less money.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I restarted in 3rd gear and managed to get going - last now. I overtook some people, used 3rd for the hairpin (3rd is good for 85 - 102mph or 136kmh - 164kmh and the hairpin is taken at around 25mph or 40kmh). That cost me a second per lap.

My best lap was 44.2. The race fastest lap was a 43.9 (new record - the old record was 44.1). My qualifying time was 43.6 and good enough for pole.

I think a low 43 or a high 42 second laptime could have been on the cards had I had a healthy car and pushed that hard. I tend not to do qualifying laps in a race though (except when I come through from the back after a problem), so I doubt I'd have gone much quicker than high 43s in normal conditions.

Bugger!

Michael Schumacher-esque

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Hey don't pick on Brits you ****ing sausage-eating ****er.

Love and kisses, miss you,

- Kev
x x x

An attempt to be funny by stereotyping Germans always ends up in a person looking like a complete bellend, and it's never the German.

Bumpety bump.

Read another snippet in the EDP about you this morning Tristan. Bit bigger than the last one hey!

Congrats on becoming 2010 Monoposto 2000 champion!

Thanks! I'm also in the Wymondham and Attleborough Mercury too - todays news, tomorrows fish-and-chips wrapper.

Annoyingly, Motorsport News barely mentions me or my championship, and Autosport don't even mention me at all in the text. But I did get to spray champagne on Silverstone's podium, and can confirm that it's sticky, cold and stings in eyes.

Congrats man.