Quote from Timo1992 :

Agree he shouldnt complain about things like that which he also did himself

Alonso always cry when things don't go his way, and it seems like he've made an ideal match with Ferrari!

And as someone else said earlier, they're making the media and everybody busy, that no one forgot Alonso was useless during the race, which Kobayashi made easy meat of him, and Alonso was stuck behind a Toro Rosso for half the race, which somehow a Force India and a Sauber were able to pass!

Nah. People who see the bigger image will hate.

Quote from JCTK :

They were NOT driving too fast.
The race control would set a "time" which drivers must adhere to on that particular lap when the SC come out. In order to avoid drivers driving too fast into an accident zone.

BUT, all the drivers involved was AHEAD of the crash, some were VERY CLOSE to the pit entry, such as Button. What do you expect them to do? STOP AT THE PIT ENTRANCE to adhere to the time and possibly cause a massive pile up at the pitlane entrance?

Nico Rosberg had the same thing last year, most probably at this same track, and got away unpunished.

Distance to the pit is irrelevent, when they hit that pit button they're obviously aware the SC is out, not racing, and should be following SC conditions and your given a time in which to get there which will be based on how long it'd take travelling at something like 100kph. Everyone pitting will get that message. The only way there would be this pile-up you claim would happen is if they IGNORE the time they're given and they race to the pitlane at a higher average speed than they should do. Its that simple.



Interesting comment from Piero Ferrari (Ferrari vice-president):
"For a long time now, I have also followed races in championships in the United States, where the appearance of the safety car is a frequent occurrence, but I have never seen anything similar to what happened today at the Valencia circuit."
Really? Cos ive seen races where the SC is on track and has backed up the grid and a driver around 8-10th pits, leaves the pitlane and joins further up the grid than those who didnt pit, like 3rd iirc.
Pretty sure it was Detroit '07 in IRL, i remember the incident at the end where the lead pair touched, leader hit the wall, 2nd lost his rear on the exit and 180'd it and quite blatently used momentum to roll the car into the path of 3rd & 4th (all 4 were very close) and managed to collect one of the 2. I dont watch many IRL races these days but recall that one quite clearly because of those things, so perhaps Piero shouldnt be such a JCL.

Quote from JCTK :

that would also create all sort of mayhem. Because the teams are only allowed one set of pit crew for both cars. It'll end up being a mess with cars queuing, some cars trying to come out, some is driving down the lane normally, some just parked waiting for his turn to enter the pit.

The FIA isn't much better themselves in writing the rule book. The drive through penalty have been around for nearly 10 years already. But it's only this year they finally realised that, shall the equivalent of a drive through is handed after the race, there is no way that it's worth the same time as a 10sec stop go!
And because the FIA has no common sense, a 10sec stop go is worth 25sec, and a drive through somehow worths 20sec...

1 car can pit per team per lap. Bingo. The order will get nicely shuffled as strategies will be split.

why i hate ferrari.and always will:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... t/formula_one/8769619.stm

i didnt see that idiot in charge of ferrari jumping up and down and screaming "unfair" when schumacher won the british GP in the PITLANE after his stop and go, because the stewards took so long on reaching a decision.

Thats Ferrari for you...

And their fans...

Quote from mr grady :

why i hate ferrari.and always will:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... t/formula_one/8769619.stm

i didnt see that idiot in charge of ferrari jumping up and down and screaming "unfair" when schumacher won the british GP in the PITLANE after his stop and go, because the stewards took so long on reaching a decision.

Amen to that! The FIA may not be very consistent but the fact they are not favouring Ferrari anymore is a step in the right direction.

anyone surprised by the sauber passing alonso at the end of the race?

im betting a tenner he has a different engine next season ! lol

Quote from mr grady :

anyone surprised by the sauber passing alonso at the end of the race?

im betting a tenner he has a different engine next season ! lol

not really.

brand new super softs on low fuel vs worn mediums on low fuel.

was inevitable

lol @ alonso - that is the top of sore loosers. First he was all "press the stewards, he DELIBERATLY backed me up so I couldnt pass the safety car". Then after, after eveyrone saw it was marginal at best, and the fault of a rushed SC out of the pits, it was all like "awww his penalty wasnt enought".

Well.. his penalty WAS appropriate, simply cause it was MARGINAL. Same as the 5 sec penalty for those cars. It was marginal for them, too - they assumed that as they were finishing the lap (and prolly heard on the radio the accident was BEHIND), they didnt have to conform to the delta time. However, ALL of them slowed down (you could see it from their laptimes) - they just missed the delta time cause otherwise (button especially as he was in the fast straight feeding into the last corner) they would have to go dangerously slow.... with other cars behind them - not knowing if those cars behind will understand why he is suddenly slowing from 300kph to 150...

Quote from BreadC :

not really.

brand new super softs on low fuel vs worn mediums on low fuel.

was inevitable

Smartest comment about that here. I was very impressed by his midrace pace.

Everyone seems to forget his spankin new tyres.

What really surprised me is that the FIA gave 5 seconds penalties in the end, while AFAIK the regulations don't say anything about adjustable time penalties - just about DT and SG that have to be turned into times penalties if they're given in the last 5 laps or after the race. In fact I can't recall of any time penalty other than 20, 25 or 30 seconds in the last decades.

Looks like pretty much arranged to me - like if the FIA didn't want to make too much changes in the results if the race is over.

There is somerhing pretty odd about this season when it comes to penalties. I dunno if it's just FIA having a mess in their regulations because of all the changes, but I guess that unless people actually stop watching races because of this obvious incompetence, we're gonna see more of it.

Every single punishment given in this race was just ridiculous. DT for passing SC in such short pitlane like the one in Valencia just isn't enough. 5 sec penalty? Who the hell has ever heard of that? Or is FIA allowed to make the rules as is goes? I hoped that Jean Todt will clean up after Mosley, but the sillyness of FIA has actually gotten to the whole new level

Quote from BreadC :

not really.

brand new super softs on low fuel vs worn mediums on low fuel.

was inevitable

what i meant was, the works ferrari team losing points to a team they supply an engine to.

in the past sauber have always lept out of a ferrari's way......but not this time.

Quote from BreadC :

not really.

brand new super softs on low fuel vs worn mediums on low fuel.

was inevitable

Well considering Button was doing faster laps in the closing laps then Kobayashi's qualiy time Alonso on the same tyres for the same duration in a car just as fast as buttons should of still been atleast at the same pace.

Fact was Kobayashi Did the impossible, he overtook 2 cars at VALENCIA!

Quote from mr grady :

what i meant was, the works ferrari team losing points to a team they supply an engine to.

in the past sauber have always lept out of a ferrari's way......but not this time.

I suspect right about now Peter Sauber would sooner order his car into a Ferrari than allow it to leap out of a Ferrari's way

Quote from mr grady :

what i meant was, the works ferrari team losing points to a team they supply an engine to.

in the past sauber have always lept out of a ferrari's way......but not this time.

Don't forget, there where two non works ferrari engines in front of the works car. The STR was there as well.

That race really did fall right for Koby, and that last corner move, he had to go for it, he had it lined up from half the circuit ago. Bold and gutsy never the less.

And the only reason they pushed penalties onto Button et al was for that very fact it was marginal. If they let them off a marginal penalty then Hamilton had every right to appeal a marginal and questionable rule break.

But for all that, dull and boring race. More processional racing and fast cars getting caught out by slow cars. ALthough I don't have any solutions that would pass muster.

it was all perfect timing for race control. XD

at the moment of Webber's crash the leaders are coming round the final hairpin, when they immediately call the SC to come out... well... it caused all sorts of chaos, and penalties... which made what was going to be a very boring race a lot more exciting. lol

and it keep the fans and the media busy. XD

Quote from MadCatX :

There is somerhing pretty odd about this season when it comes to penalties. I dunno if it's just FIA having a mess in their regulations because of all the changes, but I guess that unless people actually stop watching races because of this obvious incompetence, we're gonna see more of it.

Every single punishment given in this race was just ridiculous. DT for passing SC in such short pitlane like the one in Valencia just isn't enough. 5 sec penalty? Who the hell has ever heard of that? Or is FIA allowed to make the rules as is goes? I hoped that Jean Todt will clean up after Mosley, but the sillyness of FIA has actually gotten to the whole new level

what's wrong with that?

yes, the drivers broke the rule, no doubt about it. But most of it was marginal and wasn't dangerous, and the FIA acknowledged that when deciding what penalties were appropriate.

What Alonso was so angry about was that if Lewis didn't brake but rather just went for it to pass the SC in the first place, he would have been able to do the same. But of course, he wouldn't say it, because he's crying about how Lewis passed the safety car.

Quote from PaulC2K :

Distance to the pit is irrelevent, when they hit that pit button they're obviously aware the SC is out, not racing, and should be following SC conditions and your given a time in which to get there which will be based on how long it'd take travelling at something like 100kph. Everyone pitting will get that message. The only way there would be this pile-up you claim would happen is if they IGNORE the time they're given and they race to the pitlane at a higher average speed than they should do. Its that simple.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

No doubt drivers broke the rule, but was it necessary because the "spirit" of that regulation was to stop drivers driving pass accident zone at full speed. And they weren't driving pass the accident zone.

I think the FIA stewards agree to that to an extent, hence the very minor 5sec penalty.

The rule is also there so that drivers who haven't yet passed the accident are not disadvantaged as the field is supposed to be neutralised. It can't be a free for all after the crash point as that puts pressure on cars that haven't made it there yet and would be unfair.

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

1 car can pit per team per lap. Bingo. The order will get nicely shuffled as strategies will be split.

trouble is then you could have, for example, webber being just behind vettel with 15 laps to go but driving much faster because vettel has damaged his car, red bull call vettel in first and then webber has to come in second lap and is shuffled behind all those cars that pitted on the first lap the pitlane was opened including possible 1 car from each of the new teams, then everyone accuses redbull of only wanting vettel to win the championship. at least with cars waiting he'd probably only loose about 8 places not 13 and almost certainly he'd still be ahead of any of the newcomers.

better solution might be that you can't change tyres unless they are punctured, during a safety car period so the pitlane is effectively closed apart from repairing damage to the car, and by only allowing the punctured tyre(s) to be changed no one would be tempted to cheat as they'd stil have to come in to change the unpunctured (is there such a word?) tyres when the pit lane opened

Quote from JCTK :

what's wrong with that?

yes, the drivers broke the rule, no doubt about it. But most of it was marginal and wasn't dangerous, and the FIA acknowledged that when deciding what penalties were appropriate.

What Alonso was so angry about was that if Lewis didn't brake but rather just went for it to pass the SC in the first place, he would have been able to do the same. But of course, he wouldn't say it, because he's crying about how Lewis passed the safety car.

And i Agree with him, he went by the rules and he got a bigger penalty then Lewis which is unfair, if FIA don't change the rules people will do this on purpose next time.

Quote from Mustafur :

And i Agree with him, he went by the rules and he got a bigger penalty then Lewis which is unfair, if FIA don't change the rules people will do this on purpose next time.

Hamilton had the right to pass SC before the SC line, but he passed it few meters after. If he had passed it before, what would you say then?