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ontario stunt driving law unconstitutional?
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(33 posts, started )
ontario stunt driving law unconstitutional?
a couple years ago ontario enacted a law to put an end to several unsafe driving items...

Quote :If you are determined in the sole discretion of a police officer to be "stunt driving", you will have your vehicle seized for 7 days, lose your license for 7 days, and face a fine between $2,000 and $10,000. This is not determined in a court, it is at the roadside, and there is no appeals process.

Under the new law, it will be considered "stunt driving" if you do any of the following:

- lifting any tire from the surface of the road (wheelies or stoppies)
- intentionally causing any tire to lose traction while turning (skids or drifting)
- having the intention of causing a vehicle to spin (not sure how they're going to measure intentions...)
- driving a vehicle in oncoming lanes next to another vehicle longer than is "resonably" required to pass
- driving with someone in the trunk (not sure what this has to do with racing or stunting)
- driving while not sitting in the driver's seat
- driving more than 50kph (approx. 30mph) over the speed limit
- driving in a way that prevents others from passing
- slowing down with the intention of slowing or interfering with another vehicle
- driving with the inention of driving as close as possible to a vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object (i'm not sure what this one is about)
- jumping a left turn at a green light before allowing straight-through traffic to proceed

Quote :
-Courts can impose a driver licence suspension of up to 10 years for a second conviction, if the second conviction occurs within 10 years of the first.
-For a first conviction, the maximum licence suspension period remains at 2 years.
-The Act also bans driving a motor vehicle on a highway with a connected nitrous oxide system. Some street racers use nitrous oxide to enhance the acceleration capabilities of their vehicles.

Quote :A newly enacted provincial law that targets dangerous drivers has been ruled unconstitutional.

Ontario’s street racing and stunt driving legislation carries a possible prison sentence, but gives the accused limited grounds for defence, a Napanee judge found.

Ontario Court of Justice Judge G J Griffin made the decision Friday.

However, that doesn’t mean cops will stop handing out tickets.

“From what I understand of that legislation, it was just on that individual case,” OPP Sgt. Dave Woodford explained Wednesday on Breakfast Television.

“We’re still enforcing it.”

i think this was the best law to ever be enacted in ontario... i hope this doesn't get repealed.
Quote :- lifting any tire from the surface of the road (wheelies or stoppies)

haha no focus rs for you
On the surface a perfectly sensible set of laws, it's just how punishments are doled out that's the problem - the offences are very subjective (how do you determine intent to cause a wheel to skid?) and it's your word against one cop's with very little way of proving that you didn't do it if no-one else saw.

Excellent idea, but should go through the courts instead of being doled out on the roadside.
#4 - 5haz
Sounds like the highway code to me?
It's pretty easy to determine "intent" to skid, it'll be obvious from the blatant use of hardbrake or hammering into a corner too fast. You don't accidentally lose traction at town driving speeds.

They'd have a harder time proving some of the others though, like slowing down with the intention of holding someone up. Be easy enough to say you had to slow down because you had something in your eye or you were coughing.
And driving slow to get close to something or someone. Not sure why that would be a crime. Most of us would call that "parking".
Quote from Dajmin :They'd have a harder time proving some of the others though, like slowing down with the intention of holding someone up. Be easy enough to say you had to slow down because you had something in your eye or you were coughing.
And driving slow to get close to something or someone. Not sure why that would be a crime. Most of us would call that "parking".

i think of it this way, if you're on the highway and you're in the fast lane, and some guy is coming up behind you, but you slow to 75kmh instead of staying at 100kmh, that's intentionally holding someone up... i could be wrong in interpreting that.

as for the "to get close to some[thing|one]", yeah, i dunno how they came up with that one... the only thing i can think of would be some sort of drift/gymkhana shit.
Quote from bunder9999 :as for the "to get close to some[thing|one]", yeah, i dunno how they came up with that one... the only thing i can think of would be some sort of drift/gymkhana shit.

That would mean trying to clip road cones. Haven't we all tried it?
I love the "lose traction" bit. Tyres always have traction if they're on the ground, and if they're providing a force, they're sliding. What are they going to enforce here, set a limit on the legal maximum slip ratio?
Quote from bunder9999 :i think of it this way, if you're on the highway and you're in the fast lane, and some guy is coming up behind you, but you slow to 75kmh instead of staying at 100kmh, that's intentionally holding someone up... i could be wrong in interpreting that.

I know what "holding someone up" means, but how are they going to prove it was done with malice and forethought? As I said, there's lots of reasons for dropping your speed. Admittedly, with that drop in speed should come a lane change, but you can't start punishing people for just being crap drivers (although I think they should).

Quote from PAracer :That would mean trying to clip road cones. Haven't we all tried it?

Stolen, yes. Clipped them, no
Quote from Dajmin :I know what "holding someone up" means, but how are they going to prove it was done with malice and forethought? As I said, there's lots of reasons for dropping your speed. Admittedly, with that drop in speed should come a lane change, but you can't start punishing people for just being crap drivers (although I think they should).

i dunno... most "400 series" highways have traffic cameras, and so do cruisers... between them both, i'm sure they could come up with something substantial... at any rate, i'm more concerned about the street racing clauses.
is there something similar to this in finland, i remeber it was illegal to wheelie a motorcucle or drift?
Quote from Bob Smith :I love the "lose traction" bit. Tyres always have traction if they're on the ground, and if they're providing a force, they're sliding. What are they going to enforce here, set a limit on the legal maximum slip ratio?

I think Slip Angle would be a bit more practical

I do in theory agree with it, but because I'm the stereotypical teenage male driver...

"DEATH TO STUPID ROAD RULES, I WANT TO DORIFTO IN TEH STREETS AT NOON AROUND ALL THESE CARS LOLZ!"

:hide:
Quote :- lifting any tire from the surface of the road (wheelies or stoppies)

no emergency braking for riders, huh.

or, when i have to brake in an emergency, i will also have to make sure my rear wheel doesn't lift.

great stuff.
"- intentionally causing any tire to lose traction while turning (skids or drifting)"

I'm glad they said while turning at the end, because that means spinning a wheel while driving away on a green light is something I've seen people do alot, and it's not always intentional, it'd be very hard to tell if it was too.

Just some wheel chirp on take off is usualy not even noticed by police around Toronto, peeling out is different.

I've also seen mention of being allowed to do a handbrake turn somewhere, it was actualy shown on Canada's worst driver, but they never said if it was legal or not, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere else.
Quote : lifting any tire from the surface of the road (wheelies or stoppies)

so...ur doomed if u have to brake hard in one of these.
hit a speed bump, wrong gear in the snow - your in prison, shizz, even spin out by accident and your done for DD.


Gheyness.
It's ok.

Atleast it's not Ireland, even when it is Canada's shithole industrial dump.
Quote from dawesdust_12 :It's ok.

Atleast it's not Ireland, even when it is Canada's shithole industrial dump.

does not make a difference where it is, its ghey rules enforced by french lovers.

Gheyness has been x2'd but if they tried me for anything listed, they better have a video or ima walk it.
This shows how much of an idiot you are.

Ontario isn't the frenchy province, Quebec is.

They're not gay rules either, they're quite reasonable unless in exceptional situations (as outlined above). Just because they don't agree with your vision of immature, irresponsible driving doesn't make them gay.
Quote from dawesdust_12 :This shows how much of an idiot you are.

Ontario isn't the frenchy province, Quebec is.

They're not gay rules either, they're quite reasonable unless in exceptional situations (as outlined above). Just because they don't agree with your vision of immature, irresponsible driving doesn't make them gay.

i used a broad stereotype joke but you must be dim witted ( or just dim vision *insert spec savers joke here * ) im not immature nor irresponible - the fact is i actually a very safe and sound driver - never speed, never crash, never **** up But with that said - LEts not agree to disagree but agree that if police or anybody wants to use laws get you in court or something Regardless of innocense or not: they best win that case, or id use my case.... to beat them like all the make yokes who act so fundimentally stupid towards me.
Except it's not a stereotype when 1 province out of a country of 10 countries and that province isn't even French. I'd call you dimwitted but you've proven countless times you're a complete idiot. I doubt that you've never crashed, and everyone speeds so stop being a total liar as it just makes your (retarded) point hold no weight with anyone with a brain.

I guess that's why you still back your own point.

#22 - 5haz
Quote from bunder9999 :as for the "to get close to some[thing|one]", yeah, i dunno how they came up with that one... the only thing i can think of would be some sort of drift/gymkhana shit.

I read that and thought it was legislation against kerb crawling. I reckon the prostitution industry took a hit with that one.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :They're not gay rules either

Gay rules would have you driving in rainbow coloured cars and make singing of Queen songs as loud as you can compulsory when in traffic. They might, however, be bendy laws.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :Except it's not a stereotype when 1 province out of a country of 10 countries and that province isn't even French.

Yeah actually it IS the Canadian stereotype, oversees we all call you Frenchies. None-the-less, it's just a stereotype, and personally i'm not overly keen on the whole concept of those. But you're still a Frenchie.

Quote from dawesdust_12 : and everyone speeds

Habbitual speeders usually are convinced of this as fact, but it's not actually true.

Quote from bunder9999 :i think this was the best law to ever be enacted in ontario... i hope this doesn't get repealed.

Well, the whole not going to court thing does make it the police officers judgement, and if there's one thing i've learned about my dealings with the police it's that if you are going to appoint anybody as judge, jury, and executioner then it shouldn't be the police. I've had a headlight smashed and drugs planted on me by that uniform, they're more bent than a rent boy. See the problem is, the police are just ordinary people as prone to doing silly/bad/ilegal things as we are - the difference is, they also have a sense of wanting justice. It's a bad mix to want justice in a society that doesn't have any.

Quote :- driving with someone in the trunk (not sure what this has to do with racing or stunting)

Hmm, that makes the mafia illegal Aren't the police shafting their employers with this law?
No, Quebecers are Frenchies. Everyone else is Normal, rational and functional human beings who happen to be Canadian.
Quote from dawesdust_12 :No, Quebecers are Frenchies. Everyone else is Normal, rational and functional human beings who happen to be Canadian.

You know that, actually even I knew that.

The rest of the world however, thinks you're French.
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ontario stunt driving law unconstitutional?
(33 posts, started )
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