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#26 - CSF
Quote from BAMBO :I'm sorry, mate, but I can't agree with the underlined text. I went on the server, asked Timo if I could join and he allowed me. Then a bit later on you told me that I should pit but after a few lines on vent, you deemed that I may continue. You never mentioned the underlined statement so IMO you pretty much twisted the knife in the wound with this


Erm I am pretty sure I heard him saying something like that to Timo in the private bind that they left me on.

But honestly, you are a moron of the highest order. You came on the vent server screaming your lungs out and what was your excuse "Give me a break, I forgot because I was playing COD4".

Great excuse.
Quote from CSF :Erm I am pretty sure I heard him saying something like that to Timo in the private bind that they left me on.

But honestly, you are a moron of the highest order. You came on the vent server screaming your lungs out and what was your excuse "Give me a break, I forgot because I was playing COD4".

Great excuse.

Quote from Rulebook :"If you miss qualifying for any reason, and there are still free slots on the grid, you may start, but must take the start from the pitlane"

I don't see your problem here about my great excuse Nor did I "screamed my lungs" when I came on vent, I politely apologized for my absence and then continued specifying the reason.

I could answer back to your insult but I honestly think I've moved on from such behavior
#28 - CSF
Yeah sorry, I am in a mood today.

But yes you did scream over vent, and nor did you politely explain.

Annnd the rules don't mention if you enter after 3 laps have been completed, missed quali and the start of the race... because it's not really something that should happen, nor NDR would expect to happen. Especially from someone fighting for the title.
Well I do have a bit of volume related issues with TS and Vent so if I was yelling or not is quite subjective. All I know is that from my point of view, I was speaking

And I did say sorry, that means I was polite
If anything you should be excluded for all the crap on vent.

Quote from NDRC LFSBC Rulebook :
4. You must be in the server at least 10 minutes prior to the start of Qualifying.
1. You must be in both the LFS Server and the Ventrilo Server to meet this requirement.
2. Failure to meet this requirement may result in you not being allowed to participate in the sessions.

Quote from NDR Sporting Code :
6. Attendance
c. You must be present in the server by the start of qualifying, or the stated deadline, whichever comes earlier, to be considered on time. Late comers will be started from the back of the grid or pitlane, at the discretion of the race director. If you do not show up by the time qualifying ends, you may not be permitted to enter the race, at the discretion of the race director.

Quote from BAMBO :I went on the server, asked Timo if I could join and he allowed me.

Did Timo say that on the server? If you think he did, check the replay. The first thing said on the server, very soon after you joined, was Jack stating: "bambo you can't join once the race has started" The rules above state it is admin's discresion, and Jack decided you couldn't join. Having said that, I can't remember what (if anything) was said on vent before bambo joined the server.

One reason I'm writing this post is because of how annoying you were on vent. You may not quite have screamed, but you certainly were very heated, something you can tell regardless of volume! Politeless? No. Annoying and childish? Yes. Distracting? Very.

BTW, 22:36, 28:50 and 30:18 in the replay look a bit iffy considering bambo was lapped at the time, but meh.

And I agree with CSF's last post, joining 3 laps into the race is something you wouldn't expect someone to be allowed to do!

Look, I don't want to make an enemy, I don't recall having any previous problems with you but I just don't like this.
Quote from Timdpr :If anything you should be excluded for all the crap on vent.

Quote from NDRC LFSBC Rulebook :
4. You must be in the server at least 10 minutes prior to the start of Qualifying.
1. You must be in both the LFS Server and the Ventrilo Server to meet this requirement.
2. Failure to meet this requirement may result in you not being allowed to participate in the session



2. Failure to meet this requirement may result in you not being allowed to participate in the sessions

The emphasized word shows that this isn't automatically applied, there can be exceptions which is the case with this one since I was allowed to participate by the admins in case you haven't heard on vent


Quote from Timdpr :Did Timo say that on the server? If you think he did, check the replay. The first thing said on the server, very soon after you joined, was Jack stating: "bambo you can't join once the race has started" The rules above state it is admin's discresion, and Jack decided you couldn't join. Having said that, I can't remember what (if anything) was said on vent before bambo joined the server.

It seems you are not able to comprehend that talking to him may also take place on ventrilo where I was also allowed to join.

Quote from Timdpr :One reason I'm writing this post is because of how annoying you were on vent. You may not quite have screamed, but you certainly were very heated, something you can tell regardless of volume! Politeless? No. Annoying and childish? Yes. Distracting? Very.

So you're not capable of hearing me when I asked Timo and when I was allowed,yet you heard the other discussions? Now you're just contradicting yourself

Quote from Timdpr :You may not quite have screamed, but you certainly were very heated, something you can tell regardless of volume!

I didn't screamed and neither was I heated, something you can't tell regardless of volume!

Quote from Timdpr : Politeless? No.

Doesn't that mean that I was polite?

Quote from Timdpr :Annoying and childish? Yes.

Please do define what is annoying and childish! If someone trying to explain to an official his current situation while also being a bit stressed, annoyed with himself, etc. because he wants to desperately protect his 1st place in the championship is annoying and childish, then your definition is certainly very wrong in my opinion.

Quote from Timdpr :BTW, 22:36, 28:50 and 30:18 in the replay look a bit iffy considering bambo was lapped at the time, but meh.

You end the phrase as if you couldn't be bothered yet you take the time enough to record my incidents? Fine, give me the time penalty, I would still finish in third place

Quote from Timdpr :And I agree with CSF's last post, joining 3 laps into the race is something you wouldn't expect someone to be allowed to do!

Well you wouldn't expect someone to be allowed to do so, but as the rules state or not state to be more precise, I am more then allowed to do that.

Quote from Timdpr :Look, I don't want to make an enemy, I don't recall having any previous problems with you but I just don't like this.

You're not the only one. I also don't like this situation but I will try to defend myself if I consider that I have been unfairly marked. IMO you simply don't allow someone to do a session and then completely change your verdic, it's just quite morally wrong. Doesn't the fact that I still bothered to join the round even though I missed the qualy and had no chance of having a decent performance shows that I'm dedicated to this championship?
Quote from BAMBO :
2. Failure to meet this requirement may result in you not being allowed to participate in the sessions

The emphasized word shows that this isn't automatically applied, there can be exceptions which is the case with this one since I was allowed to participate by the admins in case you haven't heard on vent

I was in a bit of a bad mood. I shouldn't really have criticised you like I did without knowing what was said on vent. With the above, that was part of my point, the admins (well...Jack) said that you weren't allowed to race. But I dunno what was said on vent, that was stupid of me. However your insult
Quote :It seems you are not able to comprehend that talking to him may also take place on ventrilo where I was also allowed to join.

was a little unfair, since I posted this:
Quote :Having said that, I can't remember what (if anything) was said on vent before bambo joined the server.

Since Jack did say you couldn't race as soon as you joined, I wouldn't have taken any vent agreement as definate though.

Quote :So you're not capable of hearing me when I asked Timo and when I was allowed,yet you heard the other discussions? Now you're just contradicting yourself

I don't think that's contradicting myself, I can't remember the convo with Timo presumably because I wasn't particularly interested. I remembered what you said during the race because it was distracting, I could link it with things I did in the race and it annoyed me! I didn't say you screamed (though I suggested you were a little closer to screaming than you were) but you were a little heated. And what you said seemed childish, or at least the way you said it. I suppose alot of it is down to personal opinion, but what is wrong with posting that? I can't be bothered to go into details here - what you said etc. I can see why you argued, but frankly they are the admins, the officials and pretty unlikely to change their opinion (in the race at least). On vent during the race while you knew you had problems with your mic being too loud just wasn't the place to argue.

Quote :Doesn't that mean that I was polite?

Oops! I meant politeness!

Quote :You end the phrase as if you couldn't be bothered yet you take the time enough to record my incidents? Fine, give me the time penalty, I would still finish in third place

I couldn't be bothered because they weren't enough for a penalty imo. And as I had the replay playing, I thought I may as well take a look at some of the racing up front. It only took a couple of minutes, and I was enjoyng watching it!

Quote :Well you wouldn't expect someone to be allowed to do so, but as the rules state or not state to be more precise, I am more then allowed to do that.

Saying 'you' is a bit silly considering I was agreeing with someone! I was just stating my opinion, fair enough if you disagree or are right, but as most admins seem to agree also I thought it was worth saying.

Quote :You're not the only one. I also don't like this situation but I will try to defend myself if I consider that I have been unfairly marked. IMO you simply don't allow someone to do a session and then completely change your verdic, it's just quite morally wrong. Doesn't the fact that I still bothered to join the round even though I missed the qualy and had no chance of having a decent performance shows that I'm dedicated to this championship?

It's good that you stil tried, I realise that you care but I just thought you were too late. Having said that, missing what you did because you were playing COD4 makes you look a little...err...relaxed about the championship.

I'll keep out of this now, you and the admins can have the arguments. Let's not fall out over this, that would be stupid. I will say it seems partially the fault of the admins for disagreeing with each other or something, but I don't have enough evidence, or at least evidence I can trust. Either way, I take the side of the admins that agree with the exclusion.

I shouldn't have got into this! Sorry if I'm not making sense btw, I'm tired today.
Quote from Timdpr :It's good that you stil tried, I realise that you care but I just thought you were too late. Having said that, missing what you did because you were playing COD4 makes you look a little...err...relaxed about the championship.

Well it's not really like that. I just got it installed and it was the newest FPS I've had in years so I played it for about 3 hours continuously since I really liked it. Could have continued to do so but then I got out and seen the time and well....that's when I got on vent and on the server.
Ehm, as I have started to make interest in this series, I thought that I could say my opinion. First of all, sorry for telling you how good CoD4 was Bambo. I shouldt done that :P

Secondly, its stupid to not allow a driver to take part when there is space. Specially to tell him that on VT, but then change mind. (If this is correct). Its just unfair. Yes, he was too late, but that doesnt mean that he shouldnt be allowed to race. Since everyone is comparing LFS to IRL racing those days, lets take an example. If I was racing in a real race both in Go-cart or in racing here in Norway, you would be able to join mid-race if you wanted to. Specially if he was fighting for the championship! I mean, you're trying to HELP drivers, not the opposite. Can I ask, what was BAD with letting him drive?

EDIT: And if I was 2nd in the championship, I would rather give the 1st place a challange, than that he wasnt even allowed to start :P
Quote from Tomhah :Ehm, as I have started to make interest in this series, I thought that I could say my opinion. First of all, sorry for telling you how good CoD4 was Bambo. I shouldt done that :P

Secondly, its stupid to not allow a driver to take part when there is space. Specially to tell him that on VT, but then change mind. (If this is correct). Its just unfair. Yes, he was too late, but that doesnt mean that he shouldnt be allowed to race. Since everyone is comparing LFS to IRL racing those days, lets take an example. If I was racing in a real race both in Go-cart or in racing here in Norway, you would be able to join mid-race if you wanted to. Specially if he was fighting for the championship! I mean, you're trying to HELP drivers, not the opposite. Can I ask, what was BAD with letting him drive?

I'll add onto what Mr.Ostgaard has to say, and before I start, this is my opinion, and my opinion only, I have nothing to say in terms of the admins decision on how silly or clever it was, as I'm not here to undermine them.





Just to add on to Tommy, did Demetrius get in anyones way? Did he result in anyone losing time? And was he the only lapped car. I don't think two admins both telling him different things was putting their decision in black and white either, so, while their clarification was in a grey area, he kept driving as you do, and especially since the grids weren't populated.
#36 - CSF
Ok give an answer to this:

If he can't have the courtesy for his fellow drivers and the people running these events, then why should they not come to the conclusion that he should not score points in the race? If it meant anything to him he would have showed up on time and ready to go. Instead he was 50 minutes late.

Ask your team-manager if he would allow a team that shows up late for either MoE or IGTC, I guarantee you he wouldn't allow them to drive, unless they had a connection issue before the race that was obvious. In this case Bambo showed no courtesy to the admins and fellow drivers by showing up late, and he should not be in a position to score points in this round.

Edit: Same question to you James about IMA events.

Oh and Motor Racing in Norway sounds really serious and well run Tommy. I wonder if other Norwegians would agree with what you have said.
#37 - CSF
Quote from pacesetter :




Just to add on to Tommy, did Demetrius get in anyones way? Did he result in anyone losing time? And was he the only lapped car. I don't think two admins both telling him different things was putting their decision in black and white either, so, while their clarification was in a grey area, he kept driving as you do, and especially since the grids weren't populated.

Quote from Timdpr :

BTW, 22:36, 28:50 and 30:18 in the replay look a bit iffy considering bambo was lapped at the time, but meh.




Quote from CSF :Ok give an answer to this:

If he can't have the courtesy for his fellow drivers and the people running these events, then why should they not come to the conclusion that he should not score points in the race? If it meant anything to him he would have showed up on time and ready to go. Instead he was 50 minutes late.

Ask your team-manager if he would allow a team that shows up late for either MoE or IGTC, I guarantee you he wouldn't allow them to drive, unless they had a connection issue before the race that was obvious. In this case Bambo showed no courtesy to the admins and fellow drivers by showing up late, and he should not be in a position to score points in this round.

I gave you all the reasons in my previous posts to why I protest against this decision and I'm not gonna repeat myself for the sake of you getting my point of view but I will say this:
You speak of courtesy and claim that I didn't had any, yet from what I remember, I actually treated this more serious then you did from what I recall. You came more unprepared then me since your setup wasn't even able to last the race thus continuously misjudging T1 even though you knew your tires were very hot (up to the point you had a flat from what I remember), thus resulting that you weren't really planning on finishing the race (even recall some lines on vent about something which indirectly proves this) ,then joking about it and generally acted like some might call "childish"


Quote from CSF :
Quote from Timdpr :BTW, 22:36, 28:50 and 30:18 in the replay look a bit iffy considering bambo was lapped at the time, but meh.


Trust me mate, you could have caused more havoc then I was able!

So to basically put it your way:
If he can't have the courtesy for his fellow drivers and the people running these events, then why should they not come to the conclusion that he should not score points in the race? If it meant anything to him he would have showed up with a valid setup and with a serious attitude. Instead he was having a laugh.
In this case CSF showed no courtesy to the admins and fellow drivers by showing up unprepared, and he should not be in a position to score points in this round.

So what I could logically rule from your opinion, is that you should not be in a position to score points in this round as well

Did I mention that from what I see in the race result, I also had 8 more laps then you?
#39 - CSF
Actually Bambo if you check the replay, your tyres were a lot hotter than mine were, even to the point where they looked like they would burst after 4 laps. My problems were due to me thinking the set I had would last. In the first few laps it was fine... then it died and I was a sitting quackie.

Oh Bambo you fail because I retired hence why I won't score points anyway.

I also don't remember saying I didn't intend to finish, I said I was retiring after I had a silly crash in T1, but apart from that... :/

However you are still not really giving any reasons as to why you should get points for this round...
The driving here in Norway is serious, but we're also something called "kind". Letting a driver drive is to be kind.
Quote from CSF :However you are still not really giving any reasons as to why you should get points for this round...

Alright, since you can not go back and read my posts -or the import parts of them- and since this would make life easier for the admins. Here are my reasons to why I think I should get points for this round:

Rule I.6 states that if I miss qualifying for any reasons, and there are still free slots on the grid, I may start, but must take the start from the pitlane.

I believe that is exactly what I did and as the underlined word demonstrates, the rule applies to even the most outrageous excuse. You might object and declare that rule I.4.2 states that "Failure to meet this requirement -referring to rule I.4- may result in not being allowed to participate in the sessions"

Notice that the underlined word shows that this is not a definitive decision and that it is up to the admin to decide what to rule. And since the last ruling during the race by the admin regarding the incident was to allow me to continue my session as said on ventrilo.

Rules VIII.2, VIII.3 and VII.4 obviously state that ventrilo is an official means of communication between the drivers and the admins thus the ruling above was official. I was not told at any point that I might be disqualified afterwards.

Rule XII.3 says that "to be classified as a finished of a race, I must complete the minimum number of laps required to exceed 70% of race distance"

I believe I exceeded more then 70% of the race's distance so I am also not denied to receive my points due to this respective rule.

At no point did the admins mentioned that my session's result might be canceled after the race, thus making me consider it an unfair decision and thus by the above, I would like to protest against the final decision.
Car 93's result will be reinstated from this round.

The rules will be amended shortly this evening to prevent this late-join incident from happening again. The start will be defined as the same time period as the race would be completely restarted if a red flag flew: Once lap two is completed, no other drivers wil be allowed to join, regardless of reason.

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Race Results have been updated to reflect the reversal of Car 93's exclusion.

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