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That's the only picture to sum up the majority of this thread.
STROBE you are 1000% correct in everything you say, and unfortunately there are only a small minority who still value their freedoms.

One day we will all wake up as communists/fascists brought about by people like 5haz and these people who wrongly blame 'capitalism' and terrorism for the financial crisis.

At the moment I'm very scared of where we are going, and everyone else in the country should be too.
#78 - 5haz
Ok ok, if you say so, I'll give it until this time next year and if Labour has become a communist dictatorship by then, I'll agree with you.
Quote from 5haz :Maybe my history teachers lied to me, but I don't ever remember hearing about the UK going through a period of authoritarian dictatorship in the last 100 years, so tell me, when did you experience such a thing, wise old man?

Or was it something the media rammed down your throat?

I'm very sorry to bother you Mr expert, interesting how you bang on about how all our freedoms are being eroded blah blah blah, but you think that someone shouldn't express their views or be listened to on an internet forum just because they happen to be 16 years old?



We (well I can't) can always democratically vote evil Mr/Stalin/Hitler/Zedong/Pot Brown out of power if we want to, sounds pretty fair and democratic to me, did you vote in the last general election? Did you vote Labour? If so, then it's your own fault we have to put up with such a mean government that shoots your kids and throws you all in work camps (some people would have you believe anyway)



I'm sorry to burst yer bubble, but there never has been such a thing as a truly free society, and there never will be, I wish you good luck in chasing something that doesn't even exist, while I get on with my life and get rich.



I am unaware of changes in my civil liberties? Well, last wednesday I had the right to vote when I am 18, today, I still have the same rights, doesn't sound like much of a change to me.

You make it sound as if we're all about to be made into slaves and thrown into prison, this country is still a half-decent democracy where people can chose who leads them by voting democratically, you make it sound as if Brown is about to do a Hitler and ban everything, I can't see that happening any time soon TBH.

The truth is, we never have lived in a completely free and equal country, and we never will, so why don't people either shut up and get along with you life or rise up and do something about this 'aparrent' threat to our 'freedoms'. (sitting in roads and randomly smashing windows and generally achieving nothing dosen't count)

That's the problem with the world right now, lots of conspiracy theorists and protesters whinging on about how wrong everything is and smashing windows and sitting in roads, but very few people actually making change for the better, it's easy to moan. Me, just leave me alone, at the moment I'm fairly happy with (and I feel I'm very lucky to to be living in) the society I live in, it would be nice to make it better, but if there's nothing I can do I'm not going to sit and whinge on internet forums about how Mr Brown has taken away my freedoms when he hasn't really.

Stop throwing up strawman arguments, and stop exagerating what I'm saying to suit your argument.

If your appreciation of civil liberties is limited to the fact you have the right to vote then that just proves my point that you are in no position to be listened to as you are ignorant of the relevant facts. Of course your History teacher isn't going to teach you such things because laws get passed all the time, basic education is exactly that, basic. It doesn't deal with the minutiae of legal matters.

Do some research and look for yourself at the number of laws passed over the last two decades which have taken away "freedoms" from individual citizens in this country.
Quote from anbiddulph :this sums up gorden brown
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Gordon/

Thats totally unfair..



...if you came from Fife, and followed Raith Rovers, I would guarantee even you would be a miserable bar-steward. Heck even the most happiest person alive would turn into a miserable bar-steward.
Quote from boothy :Come back once you've read the Civil Contingencies Act 2004...

Oh... my... god...
Quote from Civil Contingencies Act :(3) Emergency regulations may make provision of any kind that could be made by Act of Parliament or by the exercise of the Royal Prerogative; in particular, regulations may—

(a) confer a function on a Minister of the Crown, on the Scottish Ministers, on the National Assembly for Wales, on a Northern Ireland department, on a coordinator appointed under section 24 or on any other specified person (and a function conferred may, in particular, be—

(i) a power, or duty, to exercise a discretion;

(ii) a power to give directions or orders, whether written or oral);

(b) provide for or enable the requisition or confiscation of property (with or without compensation);

(c) provide for or enable the destruction of property, animal life or plant life (with or without compensation);

(d) prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, movement to or from a specified place;

(e) require, or enable the requirement of, movement to or from a specified place;

(f) prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, assemblies of specified kinds, at specified places or at specified times;

(g) prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, travel at specified times;

(h) prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, other specified activities;

We fought and dealt with the IRA for over 20 years. I can't believe the nation as a whole and the policital opposition is so ignorant or apathetic to think that suddenly we need this kind of Orwellian jurisdiction in government for some unspecified, unforseen, vaguely defined civil emergency.

@ Shaz - this has nothing to do with communism. Communism is an economic model, just like capitalism. Go back to school.
I don't see why this is a big deal. I was required to do 20 hours for highschool, and did over 150 hours in my first year of college while working part-time and atending school full time.

What do teenagers have to do that is so important that they can't go to a local charity office for an hour everyday for a while anyway? This might even stop them from masturbating so much, which is always a good thing.

And if you think that this is a sign that your government is turning into a dictarship, i suggest you grow up. If you can't, just keep in mind that some countries had George W. Bush to deal with, and they still turned out fine...well sort of. But still...
Quote from STROBE :

@ Shaz - this has nothing to do with communism. Communism is an economic model, just like capitalism. Go back to school.

Not strictly true, Communism is a political and ideological system in where everyone works for the common good, aka state
Quote from Mackie The Staggie :Not strictly true, Communism is a political and ideological system in where everyone works for the common good, aka state

In a way, however the focus of this thread has nothing to do with communism, but rather the authoritarian tendancies of our govt. A highly authoritarian government does not make it a communist one.
Quote from STROBE :In a way, however the focus of this thread has nothing to do with communism, but rather the authoritarian tendancies of our govt. A highly authoritarian government does not make it a communist one.

Yeah I know...being pedantic.




carry on
Quote from superslider :What do teenagers have to do that is so important that they can't go to a local charity office for an hour everyday for a while anyway? This might even stop them from masturbating so much, which is always a good thing.

I agree with your general point but..
what's wrong with masturbating?
Quote from Mackie The Staggie :Communism is a political and ideological system in where everyone works for the common good, aka state

Actually, that is called "fascism" (defined, by Mussolini, as a philosophy that humans are valuable insofar as being beneficial to their society, represented as the political state). "Communism" is specifically an economic ideology (having been defined, by Marx/Engels, as "the abolition of private property"), although it is similarly collectivist (attributing highest value to a population - either the entire society, or a faction within it - and that population's purportedly collective interests, rather than to persons and their individual, or freely cooperative, pursuits of their own interests), and it is likely to be accompanied by other (e.g. - political) manifestations of collectivism.


Capital = a material object (e.g. - a tool, a machine, an area of land, a factory, etc.) used for economic purposes; sometimes called "means of production."

Capitalism (also called "free economy" or "private enterprise") - capital is owned (i.e. - controlled) by individual (private) persons or voluntary associations of persons.

Socialism - capital is owned by the government.

Communism - capital is owned by the community of workers. First, capital is confiscated (e.g. - "nationalized") from private owners (the "class of capitalists"), so that it is then owned by government, which represents the "class of workers." Theoretically, this is a temporary situation, which remains until the members of the society have developed morally, to the point that all members/persons have become willing to pursue only the "common good." When this moral condition has been achieved, there is no longer any need for a government, and all capital is owned by the entire community. In practice, historically, that expected state of moral perfection, of society, never occurs (despite even violent attempts to achieve it - including, by killing or acting to "re-educate" those "counter-revolutionary" persons who manifest recurring capitalist inclinations or otherwise fail to cooperate), so that, to the extent that "communism" has occurred, it has generally exemplified a system having apparently become stuck in the socialist (economic) and fascist (political) phase of theoretical development. A hive of social insects, however, seems to do communism pretty well.


It can be noted that political systems are closely related to economic systems, since a political system (the structure and functions of a government) significantly includes mechanisms for ensuring civilized commerce, which commerce is arguably the principal benefit of a condition of civilization. However, a political system is distinct from an economic system - being not the method of making decisions about commerce, only.

BTW, economist Milton Friedman has written (in Capitalism and Freedom) that somewhat free economies have been observed, in the absence of general, political freedom, but that he has never observed a stable system exemplifying political freedom, in the absence of economic freedom.
Quote from STROBE :Oh... my... god...

We fought and dealt with the IRA for over 20 years. I can't believe the nation as a whole and the policital opposition is so ignorant or apathetic to think that suddenly we need this kind of Orwellian jurisdiction in government for some unspecified, unforseen, vaguely defined civil emergency.

As someone generally opposed to intrusive laws and find the whole terrorist 'threat' to be far from the top of my list of things to worry about I find this absolutely fine and sensible. Of course there may be issues with exactly when it can be enacted but there have been plans/action taken of localised organisation and control in the event of disaster (be it natural or nuclear) I don't see any issue with this.

Gordon Brown : Slavery to be re-instituted. Welcome to Communist Albania.
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