The online racing simulator
Rfactor vs LFS ... pretty impressive
(526 posts, started )
Quote from S14 DRIFT :You cannot judge something you haven't had first hand experience of. That is what defines "talking out of your botty"

Crap. You're really clutchig at straws, as are all the other playstation-boys on this thread. Do I need to play Donkey Kong to know whether it's an authentic princess-rescuing simulation?

I don't have to play anything! It's blatantly obvious. All I have to do is use my eyes and a very, very small portion of my brain.

F1 car doing jumps on a mountain tracks? Suspension that looks like it belongs on a toy matchbox car? Overtaking a full field of cars in one lap? Not a simulation. Period.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRQWZaG6hlc (Ferrari F40 on board view).

The guy overtakes about 50 cars in one lap and with his driving style he would have spun off in the first turn if it was even half a simulation.

If for you that is realistic then you're smoking crack. If you want to buy into their "The Authentic Driving Simulator" corporate marketing BS, then that's up to you. To me personally it looks more like a Need For Speed game. And let me make it clear I never said it wasn't fun or it's not a good game. I might love playing it, and the graphics look amazing. All I'm saying is it's not a high-fidelity simulation, no matter what they write on the box.

P.S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scPge43d18I&

LOL.
so you dont watch the f1 hillclimb in youtube?
Quote from Ikaponthus :Crap. You're really clutchig at straws, as are all the other playstation-boys on this thread. Do I need to play AfterBurner to know whether it's an authentic jet fighter simulation?

I don't have to play it! All I have to do is use my eyes and a very small portion of my brain.

F1 car doing jumps on a mountain track? Suspension that looks like it belongs on a toy matchbox car? Not a simulation. Period.


But keep telling yourself it's ultra-realistic if that's what makes you happy.


YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED GT5, SO YOU CAN'T COMMENT ABOUT WHETHER IT'S A SIM OR NOT. SO WHAT THE F1 CAR JUMPED??!? WHAT IS YOUR POINT?!

You're the one clutching at straws (I've noticed you like that expression!).
You're talking absolute crap, you know it and everyone else here knows it as well. You cannot hear anyone else out, regardless of how valid it is.

All you see is your own opinion. Wake up and smell the coffee

I see you've completly ignored my video of the F1 car in LFS doing a wheelie down the BL1 track.

I'm done with you, you are obviously going to always think you're right, whether or not you know what you're talking about or don't.

(while you're at it, stop double posting and use the edit button - You can quote more than one person in a relpy!:razz
Reading the description of the video you linked in your post, you are looking at a video with the physics set to "standard" and not "professional". You don't know how much of a difference that makes in GT5p so you can't comment on how realistic or unrealistic it is.

Also; I find that the cars don't jump realistically on rfactor. Like on the lienz rallycross. The car seems to drop like a ton of bricks. That is hardly realistic either, yet rfactor is a sim and GT5p is just an arcade game. Ok, suit yourself. It's only your loss if you won't try it and simply write it off as rubbish.
On this point I agree with Ikaponthus. There are too many flaws and not enough good stuff in the GT series to classify any of them as high fidelity simulators. Seeing videos of the crap that can come out of them demonstrates this.

Of course, lots of sims, including but not limited to LFS, go crazy when 'out of bounds'. The barrier sky rocket bug is a case in point, and by purely watching those you'd get the opinion that LFS is rubbish too. However, there are plenty of videos that demonstrate an overwhelming quantity of 'right' stuff in LFS. There isn't with GT though - the vast majority of videos show a very fudged and poor simulation. Sure it might be fun - I stopped at GT4 and don't plan on continuing the series until it changes its tack.

You do not need to have played a sim to judge it. Just like you don't need to commit a murder to be a crime scene investigator. What will playing it achieve that watching a large number of videos cannot do? You might be able to judge the feel, but you can judge the overall outcome - impossible speeds round corners. Unrealistic slides and vehicle behaviour all suggest quite well the quality of a simulation.

But I don't see why nobody can judge the quality of the simulator of, say, a Caterham. Even if they own one, have driven one etc. That was in the first post of this thread, and I queried it earlier (but got no reply yet).

I haven't played Forza, but from the videos I've seen (quite a few over the years) it is much much closer to 'simulation' than GT.
Quote from Gills4life :
Also; I find that the cars don't jump realistically on rfactor. Like on the lienz rallycross. The car seems to drop like a ton of bricks. That is hardly realistic either, yet rfactor is a sim and GT5p is just an arcade game. Ok, suit yourself. It's only your loss if you won't try it and simply write it off as rubbish.

rfactor is more arcade than gt5. but gt5 was aimed a a BIG audience, not just you Ikaponthus
and tristiancliffe, i agree that you cant judge by a vid, but gt5p is soo dead like.. in vids only.
Quote from tristancliffe :On this point I agree with Ikaponthus. There are too many flaws and not enough good stuff in the GT series to classify any of them as high fidelity simulators. Seeing videos of the crap that can come out of them demonstrates this.

Of course, lots of sims, including but not limited to LFS, go crazy when 'out of bounds'. The barrier sky rocket bug is a case in point, and by purely watching those you'd get the opinion that LFS is rubbish too. However, there are plenty of videos that demonstrate an overwhelming quantity of 'right' stuff in LFS. There isn't with GT though - the vast majority of videos show a very fudged and poor simulation. Sure it might be fun - I stopped at GT4 and don't plan on continuing the series until it changes its tack.

You do not need to have played a sim to judge it. Just like you don't need to commit a murder to be a crime scene investigator. What will playing it achieve that watching a large number of videos cannot do? You might be able to judge the feel, but you can judge the overall outcome - impossible speeds round corners. Unrealistic slides and vehicle behaviour all suggest quite well the quality of a simulation.

But I don't see why nobody can judge the quality of the simulator of, say, a Caterham. Even if they own one, have driven one etc. That was in the first post of this thread, and I queried it earlier (but got no reply yet).

I haven't played Forza, but from the videos I've seen (quite a few over the years) it is much much closer to 'simulation' than GT.

I have to disagree with you on the whole GT point, again. I'm sorry but GT5 is a huge improvement over GT4. As I've said, it's not "perfect", and there are definatly ways to improve it, but it's a good all rounder, and it's fun. Sure, it would be nice to improve the physics engine, but then again isn't that true in all sims?

Unlike watching a real car go round a track, watching the driver inputs, a game is much much harder to visually inspect the physics of a sim.

GT5 is pretty good with the whole "brake for corner" thing. Take a the long right hander double apex corner at Fuji in an Else at 110mph or so, try it in a 599GTB and you'll find yourself either spinning off or going wide into the grass.

But you are correct : Forza (2 at least) is a better sim than GT.
Quote from chavm481 :rfactor is more arcade than gt5. but gt5 was aimed a a BIG audience, not just you Ikaponthus
and tristiancliffe, i agree that you cant judge by a vid, but gt5p is soo dead like.. in vids only.

Well I've never seen any of the crap I've seen in those GT5 videos happening in rFactor.

Second, it's certainly not marketed at me. What's your point?
S14 DRIFT,

Get a grip on yourself mate. Writing in huge letters and saying the same dumb thing over and over again doesn't make you correct.

I don't have to play it to know it's not a simulation. I've explained why not very clearly in my post above so I'm not going to repeat myself.

Chill.

Regarding the LFS video, I shouldn't have to state the obvious, but weird bugs that happen in some hacked-up version of a half-finished game isn't proof of anything. I will say that if the F1 does wheelies in the finished, un-hacked-up version of LFS, then I wouldn't be calling that a simulation either.
Quote from S14 DRIFT :I think I tried like one or two mods over the years and even installed the demo on my own PC when I got it with my G25, and yet somehow I still find it crap.

Obviously different people like their games differently, but I can play on Race 07/GTR Evo without complaints. It's a different physics engine and that's fine. But rFactor (although it's based on the GTR physics engine) is quite rubbish.

That's the same for me, I couldn't get over the menu system and it was too confusing with all the controls, but most of all my g25's ffb didn't work, it was stuck at 100%, even after i turned everything ffb related off, it was still 100%. Added an rfactor config to profiler, same problem...and then there was wheel rotation on top of that, profiler did nothing to help any of that.

But race 07 and LFS do work

edit: post below, I think they removed damage because the car companies didn't want people smashing their virtual cars up, it was something along those lines in my gt4 making of dvd.
Cookie : I didn't really bother trying to figure out the FFB in rFactor. I got bored after 10 minutes of fiddling.

Saying that, Race 07/GTR Evo's FFB is pretty damn good!

Quote from Ikaponthus :Crap. You're really clutchig at straws, as are all the other playstation-boys on this thread. Do I need to play Donkey Kong to know whether it's an authentic princess-rescuing simulation?

I don't have to play anything! It's blatantly obvious. All I have to do is use my eyes and a very, very small portion of my brain.

F1 car doing jumps on a mountain tracks? Suspension that looks like it belongs on a toy matchbox car? Overtaking a full field of cars in one lap? Not a simulation. Period.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRQWZaG6hlc (Ferrari F40 on board view).

The guy overtakes about 50 cars in one lap and with his driving style he would have spun off in the first turn if it was even half a simulation.

If for you that is realistic then you're smoking crack. If you want to buy into their "The Authentic Driving Simulator" corporate marketing BS, then that's up to you. To me personally it looks more like a Need For Speed game. And let me make it clear I never said it wasn't fun or it's not a good game. I might love playing it, and the graphics look amazing. All I'm saying is it's not a high-fidelity simulation, no matter what they write on the box.

P.S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scPge43d18I&

LOL.

Sorry for spamming this thread ppl, but Ika are you blindly ignorant? The F40 video is in STANDARD physics, rather than actual simulation - makes a huge difference. And what exactly is so "LOL" about the F430? It makes a believable spin after clipping the grass/coming off the banking which is pretty believeable at 160mph.. it doesn't flip? Is that's what funny? It's called can't flip cars? No damage? GT5 is getting damage later but at the moment, for whatever reason, it's not incuded.

Quote :
Quote from Ikaponthus :S14 DRIFT,



Get a grip on yourself mate. Writing in huge letters and saying the same dumb thing over and over again doesn't make you correct.



I don't have to play it to know it's not a simulation. I've explained why not very clearly in my post above so I'm not going to repeat myself.



Chill.



Regarding the LFS video, I shouldn't have to state the obvious, but weird bugs that happen in some hacked-up version of a half-finished game isn't proof of anything. I will say that if the F1 does wheelies in the finished, un-hacked-up version of LFS, then I wouldn't be calling that a simulation either.


Writing in huge letters is probably the only way to get through to you.

You've said you haven't played it, so at the end of the day your judgement is tainted at best, and completly irrelevant at worst - Sure, you may have an "idea" what a game handles like by watching a replay, but most games (even Enthusia, widely regarded as the best console sim) replays make the physics look pretty poor.

You can replicate the BF1 wheelie today. That's just a ramp which is availible in Autocross mode on BL1 and some setup tweaks to the BF1 itself. I doubt they'll rewrite the entire physics engine. Because it's probably actually possible to wheelie an F1 car should you get the downforce right, and a ramp or something to lift the front wheels off the air (or incredibily high speeds! )
Well, there are a lot of flaws in GT5 PROLOGUE. I will admit that, but to me it still does not take away from the fun of the game itself. I will definitely be buying the full version as I expect it will be a huge improvement over what is already showing great potential at the moment. I do agree with some of your points Tristan, but I still say give the full thing a go... when it is released in 2034
Quote from S14 DRIFT :And what exactly is so "LOL" about the F430? It makes a believable spin after clipping ...

Uh ... seriously now ... are you smoking crack?

How about when he re-enters the track? You think that's pretty believable too?
Quote from Ikaponthus :Uh ... seriously now ... are you smoking crack?

How about when he re-enters the track? You think that's pretty believable too?

No I'm not........

It would have probably wrecked the suspension/ripped the sump off when it rejoined the banked section - But the whole drift thing he had was probably pretty true to life. You can see the car was unstable coming across the grass.

Games do have their limitations.

And at the end of the day, they are just games at that.
If you think there's anything in that video that even remotely resembles "realism" then I'm just wasting my time debating with you.

And like I've said a thousand times, I'm sure it's a great fun game. My one and only point is that it's far off a sim. It's not even an attempt at a sim. The only "simmy" thing about it appears to be the slogan they write on the box.
Quote from Ikaponthus :saying the same dumb thing over and over again doesn't make you correct

Irony alert!
Quote from Ikaponthus :If you think there's anything in that video that even remotely resembles "realism" then I'm just wasting my time debating with you.

And like I've said a thousand times, I'm sure it's a great fun game. My one and only point is that it's far off a sim. It's not even an attempt at a sim. The only "simmy" thing about it appears to be the slogan they write on the box.

Fine by me. I've said already it's not perfect. But it's a damn sight better than GT4. It's better than rFactor in my opinion. But then I forget, you haven't played it.

@^ What's so super unrealistic about it? It's the constraints of the cars pitch axis not allowing you to go further - nothings foolproof.
Quote from The Moose :Irony alert!

Here's the full post:

Quote from ikaponthus :saying the same dumb thing over and over again doesn't make you correct.

I don't have to play it to know it's not a simulation. I've explained why not very clearly in my post above so I'm not going to repeat myself.

twit.
ohh, just for the record, you CAN drive iRacing with a joypad ( i recall one of the LFS guys posting about it..i cant be bothered to trawl through the thread to find it) and you can drive netKar Pro with a keyboard.

So i guess neither of them are hi fidelity sims either. Which leads us to the conclusion (using Ika's theorys)that there aren't any high fidelity sims available at all.

Looks like we're all driving arcade games chaps.

Quote from Ikaponthus :twit.

Irony alert!
-
(The Moose) DELETED by The Moose
Quote from The Moose :ohh, just for the record, you CAN drive iRacing with a joypad ( i recall one of the LFS guys posting about it..i cant be bothered to trawl through the thread to find it) and you can drive netKar Pro with a keyboard.

So i guess neither of them are hi fidelity sims either. Whitch leads us to the conclusion (using Ika's theorys)that there aren't any high fidelity sims available at all.

Looks like we're all driving arcade games chaps.

And this is exactly why I have to repeat myself.

1. What I actually said is that you couldn't race effectively in a high horsepowered car using a gamepad or keyboard. I'm sure you can manage a few jerky laps on a cruise server though.

2. Forget about the bloody gamepad debate. You (and some others) are intentionally missing the point.
Quote from tristancliffe :Sure it might be fun - I stopped at GT4 and don't plan on continuing the series until it changes its tack.
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I haven't played Forza, but from the videos I've seen (quite a few over the years) it is much much closer to 'simulation' than GT.

I too left at GT4. It just didn't do it for me at all. Honestly the disappointment was so bad it actually hurt a bit. They lost me by not putting it online like they should have. In some ways I think it might have been worse then the previous 3. I think GT2 was the high point of GT, but that's just my opinion. It was just fun.

Forza and Forza 2 is a better 'Sim' then GT4 was. Simple because of the multiplayer game play. Again IMO. But at the same time I wish I could have the 700 bucks back I dumped into getting Forza 2, the 360, the VGA adapter and the wheel..not including that damn XBOX live subscription...all for one game. I wish I had known about LFS at this point.

@ everyone else - I don't know anything about GT5p from experience. But if history repeats itself I don't have high hopes of enjoying it due to the experience I had with GT4. And I doubt there is a going to be a awesome community like the one here with LFS. That is more then half of what makes LFS so great to me. The console community's can't touch the PC and especially LFS.

Jay
^there fore, Rfactor<LFS<GT5P lol
both lfs and gt5p arnt finished...
Quote from chavm481 :^there fore, Rfactor<LFS<GT5P lol
both lfs and gt5p arnt finished...

haha. I guess rfactor isn't technically finished either. Considering it's whole focus is continuous community development. I know... it's a crapy argument.

Jay

Rfactor vs LFS ... pretty impressive
(526 posts, started )
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