Well I must say ButtKicker support is great! They responded to me at 12am EST (2 hours after I originally emailed them). All I had to do was enable "Bass Redirection" which is what you were probably talking about Woz.
Unfortunately, that involved finding the Sound Blaster CD so I could reinstall the creative software (which creative doesn't offer as a download on their site... grr...). I'm not sure what you would do if your sound card didn't have a bass redirect feature. Once I got everything reinstalled it's working as expected in LFS
I'll post a review once I have some time to test it out (this time I'll post in the proper section - Hardware - Other).
Unfortunately, that involved finding the Sound Blaster CD so I could reinstall the creative software (which creative doesn't offer as a download on their site... grr...). I'm not sure what you would do if your sound card didn't have a bass redirect feature. Once I got everything reinstalled it's working as expected in LFS
I'll post a review once I have some time to test it out (this time I'll post in the proper section - Hardware - Other).
Anyone own a Buttkicker?
I bought a Buttkicker a couple of days ago after seeing a review on SRT. I hooked it up and it doesn't seem to work with LFS at all. I was hoping I could set it up to vibrate the seat slightly at idle and much more when the throttle is opened up. But I get absolutely no rumbling/vibrating effects at all from the thing.
It works with some dolby digital demos and some dts demos I happened to have on my PC which makes me believe it's hooked up correctly. Perhaps LFS doesn't generate low enough bass for it to work properly??
If just one person could tell me whether this thing works or not with LFS I'll be able to sleep much better tonight... I did e-mail their tech support but I have a feeling they've never even heard of LFS...
It works with some dolby digital demos and some dts demos I happened to have on my PC which makes me believe it's hooked up correctly. Perhaps LFS doesn't generate low enough bass for it to work properly??
If just one person could tell me whether this thing works or not with LFS I'll be able to sleep much better tonight...
I did e-mail their tech support but I have a feeling they've never even heard of LFS...I think an S2000 type car would be a great addition to LFS. We don't really have a lightweight rwd car right now unless you count the LX cars.
As far as the winding-road/touge/mountain pass/hill climb (whatever you want to call it), I think it would bring more people to the game and it would be great for single player mode. One thing that's nice about these style tracks is that since they're narrow, the sense of speed is greatly increased.
Juls, this is interesting. The curvilinear projection looks unnatural to me though, but I guess I would need to see it in motion. Wouldn't rendering multiple viewports be the more realistic solution?
3 viewports with 3 projectors and a curved screen would be a neat setup. Something like this without the distortion:
http://drivezone.nl
... actually that's probably a bad example since that looks way larger than life
3 viewports with 3 projectors and a curved screen would be a neat setup. Something like this without the distortion:
http://drivezone.nl
... actually that's probably a bad example since that looks way larger than life
Neat. It seems like a waste to buy two seats, but it's your money Instead of the 2nd seat maybe you could buy better pedals or a better shifter? The G25 shifter is kind of flimsy if you're going to go all out.
Instead of the 2nd seat maybe you could buy better pedals or a better shifter? The G25 shifter is kind of flimsy if you're going to go all out.Funny thread. I actually had an emergency situation just a week or so ago where I had no brakes (in one way or another) getting off a highway at ~70mph.
I had been driving 5.5 hours, I was really tired, and I finally reached my destination. So like usual, instead of slowing down for the offramp like a normal person, I sped up because I like to take offramps like an idiot
Unfortunately for me, while filling up for gas 2 hours earlier I stepped in some gooey tar substance. Over a period of 2 hours, my foot became permanently attached to the gas pedal. So long story short, I attempted to brake for the stop sign at the end of the offramp and I couldn't get my foot over to the brake. I thought it was stuck on the carpet, so I tried wiggling around for a few seconds. When that didn't work I panicked! I began frantically trying to rip my foot off the gas, going off the road (because I was looking down to see wtf was going on). I didn't even think about using my left foot to brake or using the e-brake. I used engine braking to give me a few more seconds to try to get my foot off of the gas pedal. Eventually it broke free (taking part of my shoe with it) and I hit the brakes just in time before I rear ended some poor guy at the stop sign! Good thing that was a long ramp!
I had been driving 5.5 hours, I was really tired, and I finally reached my destination. So like usual, instead of slowing down for the offramp like a normal person, I sped up because I like to take offramps like an idiot
Unfortunately for me, while filling up for gas 2 hours earlier I stepped in some gooey tar substance. Over a period of 2 hours, my foot became permanently attached to the gas pedal. So long story short, I attempted to brake for the stop sign at the end of the offramp and I couldn't get my foot over to the brake. I thought it was stuck on the carpet, so I tried wiggling around for a few seconds. When that didn't work I panicked! I began frantically trying to rip my foot off the gas, going off the road (because I was looking down to see wtf was going on). I didn't even think about using my left foot to brake or using the e-brake. I used engine braking to give me a few more seconds to try to get my foot off of the gas pedal. Eventually it broke free (taking part of my shoe with it) and I hit the brakes just in time before I rear ended some poor guy at the stop sign! Good thing that was a long ramp!
Some people use 75% to full throttle and then go 100% brakes (locking the tires) and they repeat this pattern during the entire safety lap. You should never be 100% throttle or 100% brakes during the safety lap. I thought they might be using the mouse or keyboard but they're using a wheel.... pedals are analog - they aren't simply on or off.
Also we should follow some other leagues and disallow warming up the tires during safety laps. The only thing it does is cause incidents.
Also we should follow some other leagues and disallow warming up the tires during safety laps. The only thing it does is cause incidents.
hey Tommy,
You should race anyway. I'm extremely busy these days too. I skipped round 4 because I didn't have any time to practice and didn't want to cause an accident. Looking back I should have raced.
For round 5, I only raced 3 laps prior to race day. On race day, I only practiced an hour or two before the race began. I was using race_s which was ~10mph slower on the oval and people were flying by me, but I still finished 6th and had fun.
So even with a minimal amount of practice time you can still have fun and be slightly competitive.
Sometimes I feel like quitting too. Some of the things about the league drive me crazy... like the fact that we cannot complete one safety lap without someone ramming someone off the track It's quite embarrassing even for novices. But it seems to be getting a bit better every race and it's still enjoyable.
You should race anyway. I'm extremely busy these days too. I skipped round 4 because I didn't have any time to practice and didn't want to cause an accident. Looking back I should have raced.
For round 5, I only raced 3 laps prior to race day. On race day, I only practiced an hour or two before the race began. I was using race_s which was ~10mph slower on the oval and people were flying by me, but I still finished 6th and had fun.
So even with a minimal amount of practice time you can still have fun and be slightly competitive.
Sometimes I feel like quitting too. Some of the things about the league drive me crazy... like the fact that we cannot complete one safety lap without someone ramming someone off the track
It's quite embarrassing even for novices. But it seems to be getting a bit better every race and it's still enjoyable.I know you were trying to follow the rules, which is good, but the rule says:
"1. If the car ahead of you spins or is otherwise unable to maintain safety car speed, that car may be overtaken"
If that wasn't in the rules, then someone can simply drive 10mph around the course and hold up everyone!
Here's the restart. Notice it's green flag and look how far we are behind the rest of the field. I hadn't passed anyone before that point under yellow (even though no one could keep pace). Both kipsus and nightmare spun during yellow and then passed me. Captain slow should have been off of the racing line if he could not keep up with the field. Rob, when it went green I stayed behind for as long as possible. Once I realized you were never going to pass joseph I passed you.
I passed you and everyone else because you guys would not hold SC pace. Everyone was WAY behind the rest of the field. Once the green was displayed you guys were still going at a slow pace. As far as I'm concerned, I did what I had to do to stay part of the race. I have no idea what Captain Slow was doing (oops got u TG guys mixed up!)
Last edited by Technique, .
During the yellow flag, two cars spun out, i passed them, then they passed me.
During the restart, approximately 5-6 cars could not hold the SC pace so I passed them. They were about 50 car lengths or more behind the rest of the field.
During the restart, approximately 5-6 cars could not hold the SC pace so I passed them. They were about 50 car lengths or more behind the rest of the field.
I haven't had time to practice at all. I have some major project deadlines coming up with work I'm going to join the race anyway. As long as I drove slow and steady I should be able to pass the people who wreck I did drive 3 laps or so with the default set and I think I was running 1:46-1:47.
I'm going to join the race anyway. As long as I drove slow and steady I should be able to pass the people who wreck I did drive 3 laps or so with the default set and I think I was running 1:46-1:47.welcome to my world!
I should be able to practice Friday night if I give away my only free weeknight - before then is doubtful
It's not a real sequential like you'll find in LFS. It's just an automatic that lets you select what gear you're in.
I've only driven one of those sequential automatics once - it was an auto rx-8 with both paddle shifters and the up/down mode gear lever (they didn't have any manuals on the lot). That was quite possibly the most boring test drive ever. I hated every second in that car. A month later I went to a different dealer and test drove a manual and walked off the lot with it. I wouldn't even bother using the sequential mode. It's a gimmick and it's not any more fun than just leaving it in auto mode. That's just my opinion though.
Since it looks like you're making you first car purchase, can I give you some advice? Don't buy it based off of what you see in Initial D
My advice would be to pick up a used miata. They're very reliable, lightweight, and rear wheel drive. They don't have a huge spoiler (with downforce), huge wheels, and a farty muffler. For $10k, you can get a really mint car, but you don't need to spend that much. The best part is, since they're so reliable and cheap, you can spend most of your time and money driving the car hard without worrying about it. In the US atleast, it's really the only cheap sports car you can buy. You can thank me later 
Here's my old car... and... whoops sorry for going way off topic Good race guys.
A note for future races. If you destroy you clutch and do not think you will make it back to the pits, don't park on the driving line. You should move your car to an area where people are least likely to spin out and hit you.
Also, it's not just the messages about the championship, I think there's just way too much chatting by race control and the rescue cars in general. Just watch the replay at 16x and you'll know what I mean. Laps 3-5 the chat area was flooded with unimportant messages. Perhaps race control and rescue cars should use teamspeak or something to communicate with each other. Also, if people are driving dangerously they should be black flagged instead of saying "no bumping!"
There was around ~42 messages (most by the admis!) in the first 5 laps. Compare this to the IGTC race replay I have, in the first 19 laps there were only 2 "good luck" messages before the race, and 3 messages to a driver who was asked to pit because his tires were shot.
A note for future races. If you destroy you clutch and do not think you will make it back to the pits, don't park on the driving line. You should move your car to an area where people are least likely to spin out and hit you.
Also, it's not just the messages about the championship, I think there's just way too much chatting by race control and the rescue cars in general. Just watch the replay at 16x and you'll know what I mean. Laps 3-5 the chat area was flooded with unimportant messages. Perhaps race control and rescue cars should use teamspeak or something to communicate with each other. Also, if people are driving dangerously they should be black flagged instead of saying "no bumping!"
There was around ~42 messages (most by the admis!) in the first 5 laps. Compare this to the IGTC race replay I have, in the first 19 laps there were only 2 "good luck" messages before the race, and 3 messages to a driver who was asked to pit because his tires were shot.
Cockpit review - VirtualGT Personal Racing Simulator
VirtualGT Personal Racing Simulator
http://www.virtual-gt.com
Base Price: $16,995 USD
Price as Tested: ~$20,990 USD
The VirtualGT is an all in one cockpit solution. It includes the PC, chassis, seat, surround sound, vibrators, springs on 4 corners, wheel and pedals. Display options include No Display (base), Plasmas, and Projectors. Unit tested used Panasonic projector and large screen (didn't measure the size!).
Good: The audio and vibration transducers were great and definitely added to the immersion factor. Projector screen appropriately sized. Seat was comfortable - somewhere in between a racing seat and a road seat.
Bad: Cost. Harness belts secured with cheap plastic clip (the ones used in backpacks). Chassis springs are useless. Foot well seemed a little narrow for properly spaced pedals.
Ugly: Cost. For this kind of money, I don't want plastic G25 wheels and pedals.
---------
The simulator was setup to run rFactor. This is my first time playing rFactor so I attempted to not let that affect the review at all.
Controls:
This unit appeared to have modified G25 pedals. The clutch and brake pedal were replaced with a super wide brake pedal. The optional sequential shifter and G25 shifter were not present. This was possibly done because kids are the target audience where this simulator is located.
Obviously, the G25 is not a commercial grade wheel. The left and ride sides of my wheel were duct taped (do to damage). I was told not to pull back on the wheel or step hard on the pedals (so I'm assuming the wheel could possibly get yanked off with a good amount of force). The wheel and pedals seemed to be firmly mounted when I drove. For this price, I would expect top of the line controls - not the same wheel I already own.
Score: 60
Driving position:
The driving position actually felt fairly natural. I was able get a comfortable driving position by moving the seat closer to the wheel and pedals. I believe the pedal and wheel mounts can be adjusted as well but I did not attempt this.
The foot well is possibly too small for properly spaced pedals. While a high end set may fit, I'm not sure about a foot rest. For the crappy G25 pedals, it was just fine.
Since this unit lacked a shifter, I'm not able to rate its placement.
Getting in the simulator was a bit more difficult than a real car. I don't really recall why. From memory, it felt more like getting in a go kart than a car.
Score: 80
Audio and vibration transducers:
I thought the audio was great. It's a 4.1 surround system. The audio was pumped up to deafening levels (which added to the immersion factor, but I would obviously tone it down if I owned this). I did not notice where the speakers were placed, but the engine sound appeared to come from the bonnet. My fear is that my Logitech Z-5300 5.1 speakers would sound just as good if I played with the volume that high (and with the same game). I've never actually used speakers to play - only head phones.
The vibration effects did not seem to coincide with the force feedback. For example, I don't recall feeling rumble strips or anything of that nature. To be honest, it felt kind of random at times. On straightaways, it rumbled the seat and chassis (?) just as much as hitting uneven pavement. With that said, even if it simply uses audio to produce the vibrations it still added to the immersion factor and I would use it in my cockpit. I've never used a cockpit with vibration transducers so I have nothing to compare it to.
Score: 85
Display:
The projector was a Panasonic Model FT-something. It was a white LCD projector judging by the size of it. The projector screen was a decent size, but it did not really make you feel like you were in the car. I'm not sure if it's because it was too far away or if it was simply too small - probably a combination of both. IMHO, if you're going to use a projector the actual wheel should appear to blend into the in-game cockpit. If felt like I was playing a game - it did not feel like I was IN a simulator. The Frex CurvedScreen would probably add a ton to this cockpit.
Score: 82
PC:
I don't have much to say here. The PC is located on the rear of the seat in a see-through case with some sort of exhaust pipe coming out of it. I'm not sure how fast it is or what kind of video card comes with it. It seemed to run rFactor fine. Occasionally, I thought I noticed a little drop in FPS but it might not have been anything. Anti-aliasing and AF settings didn't appear to be on, but I may be wrong as I was too busy focusing on other aspects of the sim. It appears that you cannot easily use your own PC. You have to buy theirs with the unit. I believe you can simply detach the PC and send it to them for repairs or upgrades. While that may be fine for some joe schmoe who doesn't understand computers, I want the flexibility of using and upgrading my own PC.
Score: 75
Other:
The harness belts would actually be kind of cool but the plastic back pack clip just makes them feel extremely cheap. I thought the chassis springs were a neat idea until a sat in this thing. They're supposed to mimic the feeling of stepping into a real car with real springs. It really didn't add anything to the experience nor did it feel real - all it added was cost. I doubt the other people I rode with even noticed it.
I did not attempt to use any of the millions of buttons on this thing as we were told not to. They seemed liked they would be useful changing wheel profiles (for degrees of rotation and force feedback) but to be honest I'm not sure if they could be used for that.
Summary:
Don't waste your money. It's not good as a personal simulator because you're paying too much money for cheap controls and you do not have the flexibility of using your own PC. It's not good for businesses because the wheel and pedals brake easily (I can't even imagine how long the G25 shifter would last).
http://www.virtual-gt.com
Base Price: $16,995 USD
Price as Tested: ~$20,990 USD
The VirtualGT is an all in one cockpit solution. It includes the PC, chassis, seat, surround sound, vibrators, springs on 4 corners, wheel and pedals. Display options include No Display (base), Plasmas, and Projectors. Unit tested used Panasonic projector and large screen (didn't measure the size!).
Good: The audio and vibration transducers were great and definitely added to the immersion factor. Projector screen appropriately sized. Seat was comfortable - somewhere in between a racing seat and a road seat.
Bad: Cost. Harness belts secured with cheap plastic clip (the ones used in backpacks). Chassis springs are useless. Foot well seemed a little narrow for properly spaced pedals.
Ugly: Cost. For this kind of money, I don't want plastic G25 wheels and pedals.
---------
The simulator was setup to run rFactor. This is my first time playing rFactor so I attempted to not let that affect the review at all.
Controls:
This unit appeared to have modified G25 pedals. The clutch and brake pedal were replaced with a super wide brake pedal. The optional sequential shifter and G25 shifter were not present. This was possibly done because kids are the target audience where this simulator is located.
Obviously, the G25 is not a commercial grade wheel. The left and ride sides of my wheel were duct taped (do to damage). I was told not to pull back on the wheel or step hard on the pedals (so I'm assuming the wheel could possibly get yanked off with a good amount of force). The wheel and pedals seemed to be firmly mounted when I drove. For this price, I would expect top of the line controls - not the same wheel I already own.
Score: 60
Driving position:
The driving position actually felt fairly natural. I was able get a comfortable driving position by moving the seat closer to the wheel and pedals. I believe the pedal and wheel mounts can be adjusted as well but I did not attempt this.
The foot well is possibly too small for properly spaced pedals. While a high end set may fit, I'm not sure about a foot rest. For the crappy G25 pedals, it was just fine.
Since this unit lacked a shifter, I'm not able to rate its placement.
Getting in the simulator was a bit more difficult than a real car. I don't really recall why. From memory, it felt more like getting in a go kart than a car.
Score: 80
Audio and vibration transducers:
I thought the audio was great. It's a 4.1 surround system. The audio was pumped up to deafening levels (which added to the immersion factor, but I would obviously tone it down if I owned this). I did not notice where the speakers were placed, but the engine sound appeared to come from the bonnet. My fear is that my Logitech Z-5300 5.1 speakers would sound just as good if I played with the volume that high (and with the same game). I've never actually used speakers to play - only head phones.
The vibration effects did not seem to coincide with the force feedback. For example, I don't recall feeling rumble strips or anything of that nature. To be honest, it felt kind of random at times. On straightaways, it rumbled the seat and chassis (?) just as much as hitting uneven pavement. With that said, even if it simply uses audio to produce the vibrations it still added to the immersion factor and I would use it in my cockpit. I've never used a cockpit with vibration transducers so I have nothing to compare it to.
Score: 85
Display:
The projector was a Panasonic Model FT-something. It was a white LCD projector judging by the size of it. The projector screen was a decent size, but it did not really make you feel like you were in the car. I'm not sure if it's because it was too far away or if it was simply too small - probably a combination of both. IMHO, if you're going to use a projector the actual wheel should appear to blend into the in-game cockpit. If felt like I was playing a game - it did not feel like I was IN a simulator. The Frex CurvedScreen would probably add a ton to this cockpit.
Score: 82
PC:
I don't have much to say here. The PC is located on the rear of the seat in a see-through case with some sort of exhaust pipe coming out of it. I'm not sure how fast it is or what kind of video card comes with it. It seemed to run rFactor fine. Occasionally, I thought I noticed a little drop in FPS but it might not have been anything. Anti-aliasing and AF settings didn't appear to be on, but I may be wrong as I was too busy focusing on other aspects of the sim. It appears that you cannot easily use your own PC. You have to buy theirs with the unit. I believe you can simply detach the PC and send it to them for repairs or upgrades. While that may be fine for some joe schmoe who doesn't understand computers, I want the flexibility of using and upgrading my own PC.
Score: 75
Other:
The harness belts would actually be kind of cool but the plastic back pack clip just makes them feel extremely cheap. I thought the chassis springs were a neat idea until a sat in this thing. They're supposed to mimic the feeling of stepping into a real car with real springs. It really didn't add anything to the experience nor did it feel real - all it added was cost. I doubt the other people I rode with even noticed it.
I did not attempt to use any of the millions of buttons on this thing as we were told not to. They seemed liked they would be useful changing wheel profiles (for degrees of rotation and force feedback) but to be honest I'm not sure if they could be used for that.
Summary:
Don't waste your money. It's not good as a personal simulator because you're paying too much money for cheap controls and you do not have the flexibility of using your own PC. It's not good for businesses because the wheel and pedals brake easily (I can't even imagine how long the G25 shifter would last).
Last edited by Technique, .
Bumping an older thread.. I agree with everything said above
+1 for larger autocross area and autox timing.
It would be nice if LFS shipped with some national level courses as well. Perhaps with some SCCA partnership ala iracing it could bring in more autoxers.
+1 for larger autocross area and autox timing.
It would be nice if LFS shipped with some national level courses as well. Perhaps with some SCCA partnership ala iracing it could bring in more autoxers.
Back on topic, perhaps many of you that are bored waiting for the "devs" to make the game more realistic can make the game more realistic yourselves!
Build a realistic cockpit. Buy a 720 degree wheel, h-shifter and clutch. That will add more to the realism than anything else.
Build a realistic cockpit. Buy a 720 degree wheel, h-shifter and clutch. That will add more to the realism than anything else.
Ian, you seemed to be pretty upset over this in the dSRC forum as well and I didn't understand it then either. If this is the worst thing you can nit pick about LFS I think the devs are doing a great job
Really, what difference does it make if the cars shut off after being idle for several minutes. I really don't understand how this can affect your enjoyment of the game. After all, I don't connect to a race server to watch my car idle. I don't really care if I need to start up the car after going afk for a few minutes. I wouldn't leave my real car running while I'm away either! (i live in the US) If after years of development your FPS stayed the same I would say the devs aren't doing their job. When this game is finally released, the average PC hardware will be much faster than what we're using today and that should be the target - not the average PC when development began years ago.
P.S. I have similar hardware specs and I get ~45-60fps @ 1600x1200
Cool thanks, I've been manually setting mine in the profiler on a car by car basis.. quite annoying
If that's true, then wouldn't wheel compensation do absolutely nothing? i.e. it wouldn't matter if it was set to 0, 0.5 or 1 since the wheel rotation matches the in-game rotation anyway.
I'd really like to race with you guys but I'm probably going to miss this race as well due to work.
All I have to say is round 5 I will be back in full force!
All I have to say is round 5 I will be back in full force!
hmmm... weird... now watching the same replay I'm getting that error consistently at a different point. I think it's probably my hard drive going... and not an LFS bug. ugh.
this is an awesome movie I watched it like 10 times
Unknown SPR packet type
I did a search but nothing came up. In my last replay I got an error "Unknown SPR packet type". It occurred on the last lap right before I insulted the AI in a chat message.
At that point, all cars including my own go full throttle and AI 16 (who was in last place) appears to have a mind of his own*. He drives full throttle into 2-3 AI cars then goes into reverse and drives half the course backwards!
Maybe my hard drive is going bad.. or my PC couldn't handle recording the replay with 19 AI cars for that long (?)
Here's the replay... it's only 5 laps but it's a long track and the error occurs on lap 5 I zipped it but it's still ~10mb.
http://rapidshare.com/files/93000855/unknownpacket.zip.html
* Disclaimer: AI car does not really have a mind of his own. He just manages to bounce off the walls better than the other AI cars
At that point, all cars including my own go full throttle and AI 16 (who was in last place) appears to have a mind of his own*. He drives full throttle into 2-3 AI cars then goes into reverse and drives half the course backwards!
Maybe my hard drive is going bad.. or my PC couldn't handle recording the replay with 19 AI cars for that long (?)
Here's the replay... it's only 5 laps but it's a long track and the error occurs on lap 5
I zipped it but it's still ~10mb.http://rapidshare.com/files/93000855/unknownpacket.zip.html
* Disclaimer: AI car does not really have a mind of his own. He just manages to bounce off the walls better than the other AI cars
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG