The online racing simulator
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MadCatX
S3 licensed
Could this be some sort of power saving issue? Perhaps the driver incorrectly powers the sound chip off and some action such as start of playback wakes the chip back up. The official Windows driver might be dumb enough to not know how to put the chip to sleep so it doesn't do that.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Quote from S.E.T.H :hehe, you are funny to prove how mouse is fast you are showing me an oval track, in which there is almost no braking and accelerating, the areas where wheel users get the real advantage in

BW GP/FO8, SO Chicane rev/LX4 and SO Chicane rev/XRG have WR's set by a mouser. The are also some very solid mouse times set by pajkul and _Mateusz_ for instance, especially on FE rally cross combos. There are also many more hotlaps driven by wheelers in general which logically leads to more WR's set with a wheel.

Quote from S.E.T.H :
that is really pathetic of you to show me an oval track hotlap. you are the same guy right, the guy who raced 3 years ago in lfs, so bored that only coming on forums to ''laugh'' at someone make fun or talk. i am here to play this sim, you are here to chat. go find a chatroom please. anyway. we can get back to the topic.

A) I've just provided you with a list of very fast mouse times.
B) My motivation to visit LFSF does not make my opinions any less valid, nor does the time since my last race online.
C) I don't think we've ever left the topic, we simply widened it to juxtapose your claim about force view with other features of LFS that might be considered illegal tricks.
D) Since when is not a discussion board a form of a chatroom?

Quote from S.E.T.H :
there are defined views for sure, and forces view is to analyse the car, it is not designed so people with lower pc specs can play. nor its designed as a view. its a car analyser and that is it.

Defined views don't mean defined ways to play LFS. Your whole argument comes down to "I don't want to drive in force view because I don't like it and I want to impose this restriction on others because I think it gives them some sort of advantage." That's a very selfish attitude IMHO...
MadCatX
S3 licensed
I honestly don't know if I should laugh or feel sad for you. These are some VERY bad arguments...

Quote from S.E.T.H :no, it is correct

most of the WR holders are wheel drivers. not just that, mouse drivers have 2 throttle options: on and off, have 2 braking options: brake on, or no brake at all! whereas wheel users can adjust them in slow corners, going much faster and smoother. tyre usage is also huge advantage because with mouse no matter how smooth you try to drive, your soft tyres will be finished in couple of laps. even in an hotlap if your set is adjusted for hotlaps you will lose your tyres before you finish the lap.

Be that as it may, your assumption that the wheel will automatically make you faster than a mouse or keyboard is wrong. Let's look at some hard numbers. A racer names Ulisse drove hotlaps on KY Oval in all cars available in S2. These are his stats:

Top 10
Mouse: 9
Wheel: 11

Top 3
Mouse: 9
Wheel: 11

2nd
Mouse: 3
Wheel: 4

1st
Mouse: 5
Wheel: 6

I realize that one guy does not make any meaningful statistics, but it shows that at least SOME people can be just as fast with wheel as with mouse. This disproves your claim that wheel is inherently faster.

Quote from S.E.T.H :
if you can afford internet i am sure you can afford a pc that can run a game with 8 years old graphics.

My Internet connection costs about 1000 CZK per month whereas even the cheapest and crappiest laptop costs about 6000 CZK. This is in direct contradiction with your claim that if one can afford broadband Internet connection one must also be able to afford a new computer. (Not to mention that my connection is a rather expensive one and that a 6k CZK laptop with an Atom CPU might not run LFS particularly well.)

Quote from S.E.T.H :
''my pc is bad so i need to use it'' its just an excuse. if you dont have a pc that can run such a low spec sim properly just leave, or just admit you are that fast because of that mode.

There is no defined way to play LFS properly. People are free to enjoy LFS in any way the please as long as they don't break EULA.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Quote from S.E.T.H :actually, no. you really need forces view to keep the frame rates high? because lfs has so much graphic effects and so hard on the computer right? the graphics have been the same since 2005 which means, 8 years? you have a laptop from what, ancient times?

This has been a well known trick for years and it was quite effective back in the days when LFS didn't support HVS. He doesn't have to have an ancient laptop, just one with a very poor graphics card such as some PowerVR based Intel GPUs.

Quote from S.E.T.H :
a keyboard user will be faster with mouse, a mouse driver will be faster with wheel. so a mouse driver can only get dis-advantage using it. on the other hand forces view will give you advantage.

This is again just a notion which you don't back up with any facts. If you look at the Hotlap charts, you'll see that there is a considerable amount of mousers in top 10 on most Car/Track combos. WR on BW GP/FO8 is held by a mouser.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
The Internet is a very strange place. Normally people would get bored of arguing with someone who doesn't want to have an actual discussion and rejects everybody who doesn't share their point of view and yet, this thread has so many posts in it...

Quote from Biohazard :why do you assume that all of your experiences on demo servers are valid for the whole community?
in all seriousness, before you brought up this topic, i have seldomly heard of anybody using the dreaded forces view.

This is a very valid point. In all the years LFS has existed S.E.T.H is the only one to ever complain about force view mode - at least as far as I can remember. It's even stranger that he has no problem with external cameras and stuff which IMHO give you even better advantage due to much better spacial awareness.

Quote from S.E.T.H :so all in all if i am gonna use this sim, i am gonna have to use forces view, which i dont like at all.

No, you do not have to. It's just your twisted point of view that makes you think that. The fact that you're trying to force you opinion onto the others is also not particularly nice. LFS is a game and games are to be enjoyed. If someone enjoys playing LFS in force view mode - who are you to tell them they can't? You could use the same argument against people who drive with mouse for instance. Some hotlappers have admitted to use ridiculously low ranges on their steering wheels (like 90° or less) which is also completely unrealistic. People who play LFS on a big TV screen or a multi-monitor setup also have an advantage over those who are forced to play on a tiny laptop - should LFS compensate for that too?
MadCatX
S3 licensed
There are a few ways how to do this. You can of course simulate a key press which is probably the easiest way but it has the disadvantage of screwing up things both inside and outside LFS.

Changing a byte in memory is NEVER a good idea because there is no way to synchronize the access. Your application might decide to change the value in a middle of some calculation and crash the game or make it go OOS. It'd be even more dangerous if LFS were a multithreaded application. It can do the job in some cases but as a general practice it should be a big no-no.

The most clean solution would be to make your Arduino controller a USB HID device but that itself would be a much greater task that the rest of your project. There are, however, resources on the web with some working protoypes and sample code.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Oh, and just when I thought there were no more skeletons in the closet...

Quote from S.E.T.H :i am really interested with the future of this view as i know many players in demo, i'd say more than 60% are using the forces view to gain advantage.

Do you have any evidence to back this claim up with or is it just your biased guess based on the fact that half the guys you're racing against are faster than you? What would be the point of removing the forces view when we have fully customizable camera that can even be controlled by some external application? If this feature provided such a huge advantage, people would just create a simple hack to get it back if it was removed.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Are you looking just for a pin layout of the 9-pin connector? There are schemes for that all over the web including the color codes. Just type "g27 pedal wiring" into Google and look through the results.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
It's generally not possible to read a file stream backwards, you can however store the results in a list and traverse through the list from last element to first. (It also might be a good idea to save the absolute position of the EOF and start reading from that position when you read the log file again to check if it changes. I'd have to look up how is this done in C#).

String class in C# provides a Split() method which splits a string into multiple strings separated by a given delimiter. For instance, calling Split("_") on string "Hello,_World!" will return strings "Hello," and "World!". There is also an IndexOf() method which returns the index of a given substring in a string. Calling IndexOf(",_") on the previous string will return 5.

EDIT: It is perfectly possible to read a file backwards because file is nothing but an array of bytes. Reading streams backwards is what cannot be done, because while you're reading the beginning of the stream, the end of it might not yet be available (think Youtube videos). With that in mind you could probably access the log file in a binary mode, look for EOLs and create strings from segments between two EOLs.
Last edited by MadCatX, .
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Quote from Keling :About FFB API:

Sim racing requires a pure, precise and powerful FFB system, with only a simple real-time torque value passed through the API and anything else handled by the physics engine. All the effects, envelopes, offsets and stuff of DirextInput FFB are totally useless for this purpose.

Serious racing sims can do just fine with one "constant force" effect. The overall force acting on the steering wheel is a sum of all forces acting on the front wheels and these forces are already known to the engine. This is what LFS does BTW.
Arcades with no actual physics engine can't do that since the game doesn't work with any usable forces. This is where all the envelopes and predefined waveforms come in handy. For instance, when a car is driving on a wooden bridge, the programmer can trigger a periodic force effect with square wave to simulate the rattling.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Quote from Becky Rose :You can wave goodbye to force feedback for a start.

What's wrong with FFB on Linux? The Linux kernel provides a complete FFB API which - as far as I'm concerned - is actually easier to use than DInput because it doesn't require tons of boiler plate code. Yes, it has some limitations, but current devices most likely won't hit them. SDL2 even wraps that into a multiplatform interface that works everywhere. Linux might be lacking on the part of device specific support, but Logitech wheels (which is what most people have today) are supported reasonably well (plus there is a much better support in the pipe) and adding support for other devices will hopefully won't be that much of a problem once the updated ff-memless driver gets mainlined.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Quote from Becky Rose :Linux based? No DirectX.

It won't support a lot of existing games so doesn't that defeat the purpose of a game based OS?

The whole idea behind SteamOS and Steambox is to create a brand new gaming platform based upon free and open technologies. I suspect that one of the main reasons (if not THE main reason) why is Valve going this way is to make their products independent on Microsoft. They'll naturally face the chicken and the egg problem (plus some devs might not be willing to move away from Windows-only development), but Valve might just have a big enough influence on the gaming market to break through this. After all the big game dev studios always go where the money is so if the Steambox sells they will target it...
MadCatX
S3 licensed
The LEDs will blink once the RPM reach the value of the second parameter in the config (in your case it's 9500). If you have MS Office or LibreOffice, you can use the scaling table in the file I attached to my next post to adjust the LEDs behavior.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Quote from Pasci :I've tried to reconfigure the rpm for FO8; but the leds lights (especially the red) lights too soon (at 8500rpm) instead at 9500.

My additional configure line for g27leds.cfg looks like:
rpm fo8 5800 9500

But I don't know, if the app use it (will be a useful Information in debug mode).

What I'm doing wrong?

The second value doesn't control when the red LEDs light up but when the LEDs start blinking. Logitech API is stupid simple and doesn't offer any more precise control of the LEDs so I can't really do anything about this. Fanatec wheels are much better in this respect. Since the LEDs are (hopefully) scaled linearly, you can use the attached spreadsheet to recalculate the "first" and "redline" values to make the LEDs behave the way you like. I have no way to check if the results are correct - let me know if they aren't

Quote from Pasci :
Also a simple "connect" button will be nice. If I reconfigure G27 LEDs, LFS is still running. I don't wont restart LFS, because it's not neccessary. Perhaps this could be simple implemented, too?

The mod is kinda stuck in beta version since the über rewrite I did after the release of 0.6E. The helper app should obviously check if LFS is already running and just try to connect to InSim if it is. The original plan was to provide an InSim interface to adjust the "first" and "redline" values on the fly so that you wouldn't have to restart the mod at all. The current behavior is pretty obnoxious so I'll try to find some time to implement the check for running LFS.
Last edited by MadCatX, .
MadCatX
S3 licensed
LFS uses CP-1252 encoding by default, but there are special control sequences such as ^B which tell LFS that the following part of a string is in a different encoding. If you speak C#, you might want to take a look at how InSim.NET handles this (http://insimdotnet.codeplex.co ... nSimDotNet/LfsEncoding.cs).
MadCatX
S3 licensed
If they really keep the Steambox and SteamOS as open as they claim it might blow a lot of fresh air into the ridiculously rigid and closed console world...
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Did you specify the ISF_CON flag in the InSimSettings?
MadCatX
S3 licensed
This could as well be your ISP issue. Try to disable any network filtering software that might be running on your computer (personal firewall, AV, ...). If it is possible, try to connect another PC to your network and check if the problem is present there too. If none of the above helps, contact your ISP tech support. Some ISPs try to save bandwidth so badly that they filter any "suspicious" traffic and perhaps some recent update of their filters settings accidentally cut LFS off...
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Can you set the range outside LFS properly? Is everything else - clutch, H-shifter, etc - working as it should?
MadCatX
S3 licensed
I still can't decide whether the new system monitor theme looks any better than the last one, but at least I'm now a proud member of the hideous-looking conky themes makers club...
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Is the laptop really dead or can you CTRL+ALT+DEL to Task Manager? If it's really dead, it's very likely a drivers issue. Does your laptop have the Optimus techniology? If that's the case might have to update Intel GPU drivers too. I don't know how is Windows Update in Win8, but is it possible that it installed an updated driver for something which causes this? You might want to check the updates history.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Pro tip: When you use Google Translator, write as simply as possible and do not use any colloquial expressions.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
Quote from Racer X NZ :
What will this cause, we won't know until we've lived though this. Is my view pessermistic ? Yes, because we don't know, what we do know is that 40 percent of children in Japan are showing thyroid anomalies. And radiation shows in the thyroid before it shows up in other parts of the human body.

This is not exactly true. Thyroid problems linked to radiation have a very specific cause - Iodine 131 isotope. This isotope has a half-life of about 8 days and it does not pose a significant danger unless it is ingested. I therefore find the statement that 40 % of Japanese children exhibit thyroid problems connected to the Fukushima accident very unlikely. For comparison, US conducted 331 atmospheric nuclear tests in 50s and 60s and CDC accounts for ~11 000 deaths caused by radiogenic thyroid cancer.
MadCatX
S3 licensed
LFS is IPv6 unaware at this point. On a Linux server you'll want to make sure that SYN cookies are enabled and maybe increase the backlog size a bit. Some clever iptables rules allow you to limit new connections rate from one IP which might help against less sophisticated DoS attacks. However, it all comes down to how big a gun the attacker brings...
MadCatX
S3 licensed
It really doesn't matter what you use, all you need is the algorithm that checks whether a polygon contains a given point. Writing the plumbing code around it what will let you define polygons should be relatively easy...
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