Very nice! I wasn't expecting to see those popup lights working until the new graphics and especially night time lighting. Same as gu3st, I'm curious to see how people will abuse this, maybe for moving rear wings on some cars?

Quote from Scawen :

Daytime running lights that are always on when the engine is running, but dimmed or off when other lights come on. DRL may or may not have an equivalent on the rear.

On my car (Renault Clio 5), depending on the version you buy, DRLs also turn tail lights on. My lights switch has 3 positions: auto/side/low, and turning the side lights on dims the front DRLs without changing the tail lights.
Looking forward to what the new graphics will bring as far as lighting is concerned, especially night time of course

Quote from gu3st :

Are you using straight WINE or using Proton? Proton may work better as it should be using Vulkan for D3D rather than the Wine D3D system?

I'm using pure wine, on this PC the GPU is so old (GTX 560 Ti) it doesn't support Vulkan. I will try again either on a different system or when I'm back on my main PC in a few days.

Thanks Eclipsed, got it.
I'll have to assume my issues are on my side, as a fresh install updated to D45 crashes just as often now, though I'm really not sure why... I was planning to try out another Linux distribution on this PC, I'll update if/when I do that or when I get back to my usual PC if anything is still broken.

Would you happen to have a link to D45 somewhere? I just realized I deleted it after upgrading to D46...
I also restarted my computer and I still have those crashes (I guess Linux is more consistent than Windows here )

It actually seems less consistent than I thought - I still get a crash 100% of the time, but not always at the exact same time.
- First scenario where it always happened: previous track was Fern Bay Green, I changed that to Blackwood BL1. Vehicle was Reaper bike (stock), with a grid of 20 AI which I cleared to ride alone. Race was set to 20 laps. The game crashed after pressing the Go button, while loading (towards the end, just before displaying the game).
- Second scenario: BL1X, alone on the Reaper bike (stock), 20 laps (no checkpoints). Crash happens after the hairpin, before the chicane.
- Third scenario (somewhat different): from scenario 1 or 2, changing the vehicle (to XRR or BF1, only tried those 2), crash happens while confirming car choice or even before that, while moving the mouse.
- Fourth scenario: I went back to Fern Bay to avoid the car selection crash, switched to XRR, then went back to BL1X, practice. The game crashes as soon as I'm done turning after exiting the garage (I tried going the wrong way as well, same result). It's almost as if something in the field of view causes it.

As for the crash address/offset, I'll have a look if I can get that, running from wine I'm not sure how to open the Windows event viewer. I do have 2 crash dumps from wine itself, but nothing in there looks like the address/offset you want. As a side note, I'm on an old PC right now, not my main PC, not sure how relevant it could be, but I had D45 on that same old PC working with no issue.
I will try and downgrade to D45 and check that none of this happens, just to be sure.

Below is part of one of the crash dumps:
Unhandled exception: page fault on write access to 0x00000000 in 32-bit code (0x6ab275f5).
Register dump:
CS:0023 SS:002b DS:002b ES:002b FS:0063 GS:006b
EIP:6ab275f5 ESP:054cf7e4 EBP:054cf808 EFLAGS:00010206( R- -- I - -P- )
EAX:00000000 EBX:1e62ef00 ECX:0016850c EDX:00000000
ESI:1fe00030 EDI:00000000
Stack dump:
0x054cf7e4: 1e5f4b88 054cf8b8 6ab2f0be 00000000
0x054cf7f4: 1fe00030 0016850c 1e62ef00 054cf8b8
0x054cf804: 1e5f4b88 1e62ee08 03424875 00000000
0x054cf814: 1fe00030 0016850c 40002000 00008892
0x054cf824: 1e5f4b88 012d7884 034425cf 012d7884
0x054cf834: 012a0f30 00000002 00000001 012c73cc
Backtrace:
=>0 0x6ab275f5 in ucrtbase (+0x675f5) (0x054cf808)
1 0x6ab2f0be memcpy+0x4e(dst=0x000000000, src=1FE00030, n=0x16850c) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\msvcrt\string.c:3063] in ucrtbase (0x054cf808)
2 0x03424875 wined3d_context_gl_unmap_bo_address(context_gl=012A0F30, dst=054CF8B8, src=054CF8B0, range_count=0x1, ranges=1E62EF00) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\context_gl.c:3125] in wined3d (0x1e62ee08)
3 0x03424875 wined3d_context_gl_copy_bo_address+0x1a5(context_gl=012A0F30, dst=054CF8B8, src=054CF8B0, range_count=0x1, ranges=1E62EF00) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\context_gl.c:3124] in wined3d (0x1e62ee08)
4 0x0341710f wined3d_context_copy_bo_address+0x47(ranges=<internal error>, range_count=<internal error>, src=<internal error>, dst=<internal error>, context=<internal error>) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\wined3d_private.h:6589] in wined3d (0x1e62ee08)
5 0x0341710f wined3d_buffer_load_location+0x38f(buffer=1E62EE08, context=012A0F30, location=0x8) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\buffer.c:666] in wined3d (0x1e62ee08)
6 0x0341866a wined3d_buffer_load+0x19a(buffer=1E62EE08, context=012A0F30, state=04AC002C) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\buffer.c:902] in wined3d (0x012a0f30)
7 0x0341aa68 context_update_stream_info+0x148(context=012A0F30, state=<is not available>) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\context.c:306] in wined3d (0x00000000)
8 0x034271ba context_apply_draw_state+0x20c(indexed=<internal error>, state=<internal error>, device=<internal error>, context=<internal error>) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\context_gl.c:4244] in wined3d (0x012a0f30)
9 0x034271ba draw_primitive+0x43a(device=<is not available>, state=<is not available>, parameters=<is not available>) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\context_gl.c:5151] in wined3d (0x012a0f30)
10 0x03437ab6 wined3d_cs_exec_draw+0xe6(cs=04AC0020, data=04DA6B00) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\cs.c:1006] in wined3d (0x00000000)
11 0x0343b4bb wined3d_cs_command_unlock(queue=<internal error>, cs=<internal error>) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\cs.c:3308] in wined3d (0x054cff28)
12 0x0343b4bb wined3d_cs_execute_next+0x53(ctx=<couldn't compute location>) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\cs.c:3307] in wined3d (0x054cff28)
13 0x0343b4bb wined3d_cs_run+0x13b(ctx=<couldn't compute location>) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\wined3d\cs.c:3374] in wined3d (0x054cff28)
14 0x7b629ee0 in kernel32 (+0x29ee0) (0x054cff48)
15 0x7bc5c6e7 in ntdll (+0x5c6e7) (0x054cff5c)
16 0x7bc5cef0 RtlCreateUserThread(entry=0343B380, arg=04AC0020) [Z:\usr\src\packages\BUILD\dlls\ntdll\thread.c:306] in ntdll (0x054cffec)
0x6ab275f5 ucrtbase+0x675f5: movq %mm0,0x0(%edi)

And some thread info regarding LFS:
00000158 (D) C:\LFS\LFS.exe
0000015c 0
00000160 0 <== wined3d_cs
00000164 0
00000168 15 winepulse_mainloop
0000016c 15 winepulse_timer_loop
00000170 15 wine_dsound_mixer
00000180 0

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm getting a consistent crash when trying to race on Blackwood BL1 on patch D46, where D45 was working fine. I can drive on BL1X though.
I'm playing on Linux through wine, but was having no problems at all before D46 and now it keeps crashing (just happened as I was changing cars too).
On the bike handling side, I now understand what people said about D45, it's true that D46 makes bikes much more agile at lower speeds.

I haven't done much low-speed maneuvering (and not that much riding either), but I agree with Scawen on D45 low speed, D44 and before, the bike would make one or two big oscillations after a low speed corner, and now this doesn't happen anymore.
Very pleased with D45, bikes are pretty fun to ride, even though I'm terrible... At the very least, I feel this should be good enough until the new physics.

Last edited by Bokujishin, Sat 28 Oct 2023, 20:22.

I think the new safety margin on braking is a bit too high now in D44, to the point that when racing with the XRR, if I'm on the inside line but slightly behind an AI, I can basically slam the brakes slightly later than the AI and get right alongside, and still have enough grip to complete the pass before exiting the turn without running wide. Maybe toning it down a bit could bring good balance between safe braking and performance? Or maybe have that margin reduced with higher AI skill?

Another point I saw mentioned a few times, which was introduced around D40-41 I believe (when AI stopped braking for no apparent reason), is the tendency for AI to bump into you, typically when you're on the outside line, both on turn entry and exit, where they can push you wide. I much prefer the current behavior to the old one, but I now tend to "protect myself" by basically pushing back against the AI car so I don't end up in the grass.

Just to make sure: are AI driving the N400 GT mod actually super slow, or are they just driving on the default setup (which is using sports tires) while you are using slick tires? I just started a race around Blackwood with the slick tires, and noticed the AI were really slow, until I forced them to use my setup - they're still slow, but definitely not *that* slow on slicks.

Patch D41 is much much better with AI, they're not braking for no apparent reason anymore when side by side.
They still seem to get stuck behind other static cars however (especially those that run out of fuel and stop in the middle of the track), or on exit of some turns (T1 in Blackwood for instance, though they usually don't stop entirely there).

Quote from Scawen :

It sounds good so far. I'm sure most of the changes must be for the best. It's still possible that there are some negative side-effects.

Not sure if it's a side effect of the recent patches or not, but as tankslacno mentioned, AI have some difficulties in the pits, and this is exacerbated by their tendency to all pit on the exact same lap. Some variation in strategy would be nice, even if random, although I guess that's out of the scope of this patch.
Also mentioned by tankslacno, the "snake move" was rather common in previous test patches when they would try to overtake, it feels to me like they're driving with a PID constraining them to the racing line, and changing line or jumping into/out of the pits makes for a very brutal transient that they can't save.

The overall experience with AI racing is much more interesting none the less, but if I can bring up one more point, it would be their blindness to obstacles, as they make no effort whatsoever to avoid cars stranded in the middle of the road, or bikes lying on the ground.

Quote from Scawen :

The first item, is probably that reported by bobloblaw above, which should now be fixed.
The second item, I noticed this, it was a newly introduced bug, now fixed.
The third item, I'm not sure about. It sounds like something that could have always been the case. Or do you think it's something new?

The first two items seem to be fixed indeed. Third one I'm not entirely sure actually, at the end of the back straight in BL1 they swerve slightly to the left as they enter the braking zone, but that's part of the racing line.

The other adjustments look pretty good to me, I think racing against AI cars is much more interesting now. Hopefully it can be improved further once the updated graphics and physics are out of the way.

Also, I just tried having a race with 8 FXR, 8 XRR and 8 FZR on KY2, and maybe it's because of the latest changes, but there was a big crash exiting T1, probably because they were a bit too eager to overtake each other. I'll test some more tomorrow.

I feel like the AI in D39 is generally slightly faster, or at least doesn't brake as easily when in close proximity to players or other AI (it still does, especially when they're on the outside when exiting a turn, but less often).
However, I found 3 issues with them:

• At the start of the race, most AI have a very poor launch, as they brake for no apparent reason and also swerve quite a lot (see XRR replay).
  
• Some cars can end up in a massive pileup and stay there for a while for no apparent reason (see XRR replay).
  
• They tend to "move under braking", or at least AI FBM do, especially if you're on the outside and force them away from their line, they tend to move to the outside and push you (see FBM replay, where I try to force AI out of their standard line, especially at T1 on lap 3).
  

Note: I also tried clearing the contents of the knw folder, I did not notice a significant difference, but both replays were recorded after doing so and letting the game create new knw files.

I think it would be ideal if replays stored snapshots of the game state at regular intervals (once per lap or every few laps, or even just a fixed amount of snapshots), this way the replay could be started from that point instead of from the very beginning.

To check whether a program is already open or not, you can use IfWinExist the exact same way you use IfWinActive. You just have to tell AHK what to do depending on this.
When you want to close everything LFS has opened, I guess you want to use WinClose (see details on autohotkey's command reference page).
As it seems the script does nothing more once LFS is running, I think you could use a WinWaitClose command; that way, as soon as LFS closes, it will resume the script, in which you add the WinClose commands.

Something like this:
Run D:\Lfs\LFS.exe
WinWaitClose, Live For Speed
WinClose, Lfs Strobe by Tommy,,1 ; waiting 1 sec to be safe
; same for the other windows

For the program detection:
If not WinExist, Lfs Strobe
Run D:\Stuff to keep\Live For Speed\strobe\LfsStrobe.exe

I'm no pro at AHK however, so you may have to play with this a little before it works

Hey guys, you all forgot to point out that we are waiting for an update! (except it will change physics and not add car parts)
And also, if cris ever comes back again, he should know that a 3 people team won't release updates as he asks, especially when the idea doesn't fit the game.

Really really cool idea and video!
Plus the calm music fits well with the absence of movement.
The only negative point would be the part in the middle where the cars are going slow motion. I think you should have kept the idea through the whole video and replaced this shot with one of the XRT jumping or FXO upside down. I think you wanted to add some contrast or something, but I think a still would have been better.

Otherwise, really good job! (going to watch it a second time )

Yeah I know it happened before too, but not that often I think.
It had never happened when hitting an incoming XRT before, and now I'm literally sinking into the ground

I just noticed the BF1 is more likely to go through the ground when hitting another car the wrong way. I know you're not supposed to come at another car at 300km/h but I had never gone through the ground until Z34 (did it twice in a row).

Quote from Scawen :

FIX : Endless auto car reset after falling into the underworld

Are you talking about the car rapidly resetting in the underworld? If so, I'm afraid it is not fixed yet, as it is the first thing I tried and it still does it (I also found that rapidly turning the wheel allows the car not to reset for about half a second ).

PS: While playing around in the underworld, I noticed that fast turning the wheels allows to gain complete control, replay attached for more info).
Replay in Z34 of course.

Quote from Squelch :

The replay is paused and I enter Shift+U and set follow.
Stepping forwards is no problem, but stepping back [index 0:27] the view is reset.
I return to the car, and follow it again but this time locking the view [index 0:44].
Stepping forwards is again without problems, and stepping backwards now stays with the car [index 0:50]
I then turn off the lock and the camera is once again reset when backstepping [index 1.04]

I have to say I don't understand why the camera does this on your video. I did the exact same thing and the camera stays on the car, whether I click "lock" or not...

EDIT: @ Scawen: Oh then that's the way you reduced it^^
I did a little test on AU, placed a few chalk objects here and there, randomly and also on precise spots (intersection with AU chalk, intersection between multiple chalk objects).
My conclusion: isolated objects (I mean those that do not intersect anything else) do not (cannot?) flicker anymore.
However, as I thought, the main remaining problem is intersection between chalk objects: they are placed at the same height, so their height difference being 0, they do flicker.
I'm not quite sure how you could fix that, though. (maybe a way of telling when these objects are intersecting, and when it is the case, move them separately?).
I also looked at how "high" the objects were away from the ground, and it is barely noticeable they're not actually touching it (only noticed it while intersecting them with the lower part of a ramp, a barrier, etc.).

Last edited by Bokujishin, Sat 7 May 2011, 19:15.

I tried too, and I can't reproduce either. I'm not locking the camera, only following, but it stays with the car while stepping backwards

@ Scawen: Did you consider my idea about the flickering issue?


I don't have Z28 anymore, but I will reinstall it to test one of my layouts, that makes you drive on top of barriers (I want to check if it was possible too in Z28). However, driving carefully is necessary, as the tyre will eventually glitch.

Thanks for Z32, Scawen
Gonna try this and see how my LFS changes.

Regarding the flickering issue (apparently not entirely solved?), do you think raising the chalk objects a tiny bit above the ground would help?

Quote from Inouva :

Dont think so, the mod have a rb4 with a GTR spoiler and a rollcage inside...

Having these parts on the car doesn't necessarily mean the collisions are changed. If your mod changes the appearance only, you can have your GTR spoiler, but it will not detect collisions.
Well, that's only what I think about it

By the way Scawen, are collision issues that are not directly caused by the new detection system considered off-topic here? Because I did a few tests in various situations to make the car bug (like driving on barriers, and a tyre deforms strangely before ejecting the car). However I don't really know whether they are caused by the new system or a previously present bug.

EDIT:

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Are you talking about borderless mode?, I don't think scawen would add it.

Borderless windows can be easily achieved via autohotkey scripts. I have one that can do that (you must install AutoHotKey to launch the script).

Last edited by Bokujishin, Fri 6 May 2011, 00:37.