Thanks for the report, very interesting.
The tunnel video is fabulous although it feels a bit fast.
Does the new ZBuffer will improve the ground markings and tire marks? I mean in 2D I don't notice it but in VR it feels very slightly floating like 5 or 10mm (maybe less even)...
The tunnel video is fabulous although it feels a bit fast.
Does the new ZBuffer will improve the ground markings and tire marks? I mean in 2D I don't notice it but in VR it feels very slightly floating like 5 or 10mm (maybe less even)...
Thank you for your anwser Bob. I don`t mind doing it manually even if it takes long. My problem is just that with some parameters I just do not know where to get them. I looked on and off the last days and managed to acquire the most parameters through LFS-Editor or the RAF-File but there are parameters I don´t no how to get them and with some of the parameters I am not sure if I did them correctly.
For example CoG.
In LFS-Editor there are CoG-local-Parameters for my car R=0.004, F=0.06 and U=0.251. I guess it is in meters and in VHPA I have to set the values in % depending on the length of the car. Car length is 4.317 m. So the values are R=49.07% and F=48.61 %. I don´t know if the U-Value can be taken directly as CoG height because there are two further CoG height values (height above ground and minimum height). The result was kind of wrong as you can see the weight destribution in LFS and it differ from VHPA, so I had to "cheat" to get to the same weight destribution. I think the values for rotating and unspung mass may be wrong. In the RAF-File one wheel weighs 16.215 kg, so the rotating mass for rear and front is each 32.43 kg. In LFS-Editor the suspension weighs 80kg, so the unspung mass for rear and front is each 72.43 kg. Or am I allready wrong here?
These parameters here I don´t know where to get from:
I get you Bob. I would´nt be also too hyped about supporting a tool that is not up to date with current state of LFS and was made a long time ago.
I hope someone who still uses VHPA now and then can help me out? It is a very powerful tool. I managed to do some setups. I tried to make them completely neutral. I matched nearly every bar to be green. The car behaves mostly neutral but something feels a bit off. So it needs more polishing and I guess the right/missing values.
I think there is not that much left to have a proper vehicle data and then to be able to make setups properly.
After I guess 12 years break from sim racing and especially LFS I started again because of ACE and remembered LFS and tried it ... and now I am all hooked again.
Video of me driving layout in RB4 ...
Another video, but slightly different configuration ...
Another video, but slightly different configuration ...
10 Years of Scawen's very own racetrack (Event & Anniversary)
⛳️ We go back exactly 10 years to the first ever race, made by and raced with our very own mr. Scawen :
... and with that, an event race is coming up at this long-standing Scawen's Racetrack; and everyone is invited!
>>> Race takes place THIS SATURDAY, 08 March at 1500 UTC. <<<
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/110186-Layout-Racing-League-2025%3A-Announcement-%26-Schedule
Layout Racing League makes a return visit to the well-loved Scawen's Racetrack, having last hosted in 2019, the mega race in Covid-hit 2020 and 2021, and last in 2022.
... and with that, an event race is coming up at this long-standing Scawen's Racetrack; and everyone is invited!
>>> Race takes place THIS SATURDAY, 08 March at 1500 UTC. <<<
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/110186-Layout-Racing-League-2025%3A-Announcement-%26-Schedule
Layout Racing League makes a return visit to the well-loved Scawen's Racetrack, having last hosted in 2019, the mega race in Covid-hit 2020 and 2021, and last in 2022.
Further update ...
A few changes ...
Options - Vue:
Champ de vision, Décalage de la vue, Amplitude vision ... no Z offset
Champ de vision, Décalage de la vue, Amplitude vision ... no Z offset
I worked on LOD2 since I was basically using the version you can see in my first few posts up until now, and now I'm actually done with LOD2 before LOD1 
I ended up with about 5.5k triangles, I hope this won't be considered to be "very high"... To be perfectly honest, I would really hate to lower the count down to even 2k, as it would completely destroy the visual fidelity of the car - with 5.5k, I basically cannot see the transition to LOD2, which is the second purpose of levels of detail, after optimization. Below 2k or even 1k triangles should, in my opinion, only be for a third visual LOD (not the one LFS uses for collisions).
Anyway, now I need to get back to modeling the interior (mainly missing air vents on the dashboard, then I can add some detail on the tunnel and the back), and iron out some details on the exterior (properly plug the gaps here and there, refine some rough shapes, especially on the front grilles, and those pesky tail lights).
I ended up with about 5.5k triangles, I hope this won't be considered to be "very high"... To be perfectly honest, I would really hate to lower the count down to even 2k, as it would completely destroy the visual fidelity of the car - with 5.5k, I basically cannot see the transition to LOD2, which is the second purpose of levels of detail, after optimization. Below 2k or even 1k triangles should, in my opinion, only be for a third visual LOD (not the one LFS uses for collisions).
Anyway, now I need to get back to modeling the interior (mainly missing air vents on the dashboard, then I can add some detail on the tunnel and the back), and iron out some details on the exterior (properly plug the gaps here and there, refine some rough shapes, especially on the front grilles, and those pesky tail lights).
Top times for reverse Perimeter layout ...
I wanted to say something here but I don't have any references (yet) apart from 40-odd years of thinking about motorcycles 
so I'm talking about high performance naturally aspirated engines here ...
Smaller throttle openings at low RPM actually produce MORE torque than full throttle. That is why you don't fit large carburetors if you want midrange driveability. This is because the higher mixture velocity of a smaller venturi allows improved cylinder mixing and more complete combustion.
In recent times we have seen the move to ride-by-wire throttles and selectable engine maps. This is why modern superbikes can have large throttle bodies and make 230bhp and still be rideable in traffic. When you fully rotate the twist grip at say 3000rpm the ECU does not fully open the butterflies - it gives you an opening that gives you the best useable torque. Previously with carbs (which I love) you had to compromise.
(Of course turbo engines are a whole other area and depend on whether you have mechanical or electronic boost control etc etc etc)
so I'm talking about high performance naturally aspirated engines here ...Smaller throttle openings at low RPM actually produce MORE torque than full throttle. That is why you don't fit large carburetors if you want midrange driveability. This is because the higher mixture velocity of a smaller venturi allows improved cylinder mixing and more complete combustion.
In recent times we have seen the move to ride-by-wire throttles and selectable engine maps. This is why modern superbikes can have large throttle bodies and make 230bhp and still be rideable in traffic. When you fully rotate the twist grip at say 3000rpm the ECU does not fully open the butterflies - it gives you an opening that gives you the best useable torque. Previously with carbs (which I love) you had to compromise.
(Of course turbo engines are a whole other area and depend on whether you have mechanical or electronic boost control etc etc etc)
That sure is a pretty kitty! 
I have only just noticed your suspension diagram - that front looks too high IMHO.
You may have already found these but ...
Discussion on roll centres
Discussion on height
The diagrams in the first link look good for scaling lengths and inclinations but it looks like you have already done that.
The second link is more relevant because it shows a setting height that you could use in LFS editor but adjusting the vertical position of the inner pivot. That should give you the correct angle for the lower wishbone (providing the tyre height is correct).
Just some thoughts.
I have only just noticed your suspension diagram - that front looks too high IMHO.
You may have already found these but ...
Discussion on roll centres
Discussion on height
The diagrams in the first link look good for scaling lengths and inclinations but it looks like you have already done that.
The second link is more relevant because it shows a setting height that you could use in LFS editor but adjusting the vertical position of the inner pivot. That should give you the correct angle for the lower wishbone (providing the tyre height is correct
).Just some thoughts.
oh ! calling me selfish while not even having bought the game ...
I have to take a closer look at that...
I always had 2 devices to choose from - either the pedals or the wheel ... when one of them was activated the other was deactivated, so either the wheel or the pedals were always active, but never both at the same time
I always had 2 devices to choose from - either the pedals or the wheel ... when one of them was activated the other was deactivated, so either the wheel or the pedals were always active, but never both at the same time
New times and drift scores for current Perimeter layout ...
wait?? ... wat?
What to say ... OMG ! insane job guys ! Eric, you rock 
Hope everything is getting fine with your home project Scawen ! Can't wait to put my hands on this masterpiece
. And thanks a lot to share these :
Have some well deserved holidays and enjoy the time before getting onto business again next year !
Nice Christmas present for us, and thanks a lot Degats for those comparison screenshots. I am gonna spend some times looking to these
Hope everything is getting fine with your home project Scawen ! Can't wait to put my hands on this masterpiece
. And thanks a lot to share these :Have some well deserved holidays and enjoy the time before getting onto business again next year !
Nice Christmas present for us, and thanks a lot Degats for those comparison screenshots. I am gonna spend some times looking to these
Recently changed to the Perimeter layout.
Current top times and drift scores ...
Current top times and drift scores ...
LFS create backup for transport
I have two computers and wanted to transport, via cloud, LFS settings, setups, views, layouts etc, except large and unnecessary folders as well.
Therefore, I created this .bat file to do it automatically and produce one highly compressed .7z file without the unnecessary folders (you need to have 7zip installed, obviously).
1- Copy what is inside the # # to a .txt file (or download), save, rename to .bat
1.5 - If your LFS folder name is not LFS, replace the ..\LFS\ for whatever your folder name is
2- Place the .bat file in the LFS root directory (...\LFS)
######################################
7z.exe a -t7z LFS.7z ..\LFS\ -mx0 -xr!dds -xr!wld -xr!skins_x -xr!skins_y -xr!skins_dds -xr!mods -xr!cache -xr!map_info -xr!docs -xr!dll -xr!shots -xr!training -xr!cmx -xr!sound -xr!language -xr!veh -mx1
######################################
Info: the -xr! is the wildcard to not compress that folder specifically, the search is recursive
Therefore, I created this .bat file to do it automatically and produce one highly compressed .7z file without the unnecessary folders (you need to have 7zip installed, obviously).
1- Copy what is inside the # # to a .txt file (or download), save, rename to .bat
1.5 - If your LFS folder name is not LFS, replace the ..\LFS\ for whatever your folder name is
2- Place the .bat file in the LFS root directory (...\LFS)
######################################
7z.exe a -t7z LFS.7z ..\LFS\ -mx0 -xr!dds -xr!wld -xr!skins_x -xr!skins_y -xr!skins_dds -xr!mods -xr!cache -xr!map_info -xr!docs -xr!dll -xr!shots -xr!training -xr!cmx -xr!sound -xr!language -xr!veh -mx1
######################################
Info: the -xr! is the wildcard to not compress that folder specifically, the search is recursive
Reply
Yes, I eventually want to do exactly that. As of the early results posted above, you can take the standardized coefficients as a metric for the impact of the properties. Power influences the performance the most, followed closely by the lift, then it is drag, mass, weight distribution and lastly the engine size.
Indeed, the performance over the course of a race differs quite a bit from a single lap performance. Plus lap counts and pitstops impact the performance quite significantly. I tried to model it in the past for the Open Endurance Cup Five and probably need to rehash some of the ideas to make it work here. https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/94326-Open-Endurance-Cup-Five---Balance-of-Performance-Discussion
I think getting all the uploaded times may be the real challenge, since I basically naively copy’n’pasted the times from the LFSWorld tables into Excel. For XFG@BL1 there are 347 hot laps uploaded across 14 tables. While other combos won’t have as many uploaded times as the demo combos, it is still a lot of effort needed to do such an analysis.
You can already indirectly get a ranking of the different track speeds by looking into the descriptive statistics as these are practically the mean speeds for each track. It does not factor in the theoretical car top speed. I didn’t look into this, but is the value in the car selection screen independent from the used setup? If so, it would be a thought to include it, although it should prove to be highly correlated with other covariates as well.
I probably would need the whole LFSWorld hot lap database for this. It definitely would make for interesting facts, but to be honest I probably won’t be able to answer these with what I want to pursue.
You’re right, machine learning is a great tool to do such analysis. However it also is a black box and not easy to understand, why particular results emerge. So I decided to go this route. I furthermore wanted to get practical with JASP.
Basically it is a core thought of this method to make a linear fit but to multiple different properties. The resulting fit will be the optimal estimation for the given data set. I further used the logarithm to be able to get the speed by a product of multiple factors using the following properties:
log(s) = β₀ + β₁ × m + β₂ × p + β₃ × w + β₄ × z + β₅ × l + β₆ × d + β₇ + ...
e^(log(s)) = e^(β₀ + β₁ × m + β₂ × p + β₃ × w + β₄ × z + β₅ × l + β₆ × d + β₇ + ...)
s = e^(β₀) × e^(β₁ × m) × e^(β₂ × p) × e^(β₃ × w) × e^(β₄ × z) × e^(β₅ × l) × e^(β₆ × d) × e^(β₇) × ...
(s = speed, m = mass, p = power, w = weight distribution front, z = engine size, l = lift, d = drag with β being the corresponding coefficients from the multiple linear regression, β₀ = intercept and β₇ onwards being the coefficients of the categoric factors)
I got the latter idea from hedonic regressions in the real estate evaluation. I recently took part in a workshop on that topic. There is a similar situation, where statistical analysis is applied to very heterogeneous data sets to get general models and to reapply them to specific objects. For the application in LFS, there are at least metric values and precise categories, which in theory should make it easier then for a real estate index.
Yes, I eventually want to do exactly that.
As of the early results posted above, you can take the standardized coefficients as a metric for the impact of the properties. Power influences the performance the most, followed closely by the lift, then it is drag, mass, weight distribution and lastly the engine size. Indeed, the performance over the course of a race differs quite a bit from a single lap performance. Plus lap counts and pitstops impact the performance quite significantly. I tried to model it in the past for the Open Endurance Cup Five and probably need to rehash some of the ideas to make it work here. https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/94326-Open-Endurance-Cup-Five---Balance-of-Performance-Discussion
I think getting all the uploaded times may be the real challenge, since I basically naively copy’n’pasted the times from the LFSWorld tables into Excel. For XFG@BL1 there are 347 hot laps uploaded across 14 tables. While other combos won’t have as many uploaded times as the demo combos, it is still a lot of effort needed to do such an analysis.
You can already indirectly get a ranking of the different track speeds by looking into the descriptive statistics as these are practically the mean speeds for each track. It does not factor in the theoretical car top speed. I didn’t look into this, but is the value in the car selection screen independent from the used setup? If so, it would be a thought to include it, although it should prove to be highly correlated with other covariates as well.
I probably would need the whole LFSWorld hot lap database for this.
It definitely would make for interesting facts, but to be honest I probably won’t be able to answer these with what I want to pursue.You’re right, machine learning is a great tool to do such analysis. However it also is a black box and not easy to understand, why particular results emerge. So I decided to go this route. I furthermore wanted to get practical with JASP.
Basically it is a core thought of this method to make a linear fit but to multiple different properties. The resulting fit will be the optimal estimation for the given data set. I further used the logarithm to be able to get the speed by a product of multiple factors using the following properties:
log(s) = β₀ + β₁ × m + β₂ × p + β₃ × w + β₄ × z + β₅ × l + β₆ × d + β₇ + ...
e^(log(s)) = e^(β₀ + β₁ × m + β₂ × p + β₃ × w + β₄ × z + β₅ × l + β₆ × d + β₇ + ...)
s = e^(β₀) × e^(β₁ × m) × e^(β₂ × p) × e^(β₃ × w) × e^(β₄ × z) × e^(β₅ × l) × e^(β₆ × d) × e^(β₇) × ...
(s = speed, m = mass, p = power, w = weight distribution front, z = engine size, l = lift, d = drag with β being the corresponding coefficients from the multiple linear regression, β₀ = intercept and β₇ onwards being the coefficients of the categoric factors)
I got the latter idea from hedonic regressions in the real estate evaluation. I recently took part in a workshop on that topic. There is a similar situation, where statistical analysis is applied to very heterogeneous data sets to get general models and to reapply them to specific objects. For the application in LFS, there are at least metric values and precise categories, which in theory should make it easier then for a real estate index.
Updated times and drift scores for the reverse infield layout ...
Some more times and drift scores ...
"the daily minimum wage"... how do u want to be taken serious with this ?
many people in rich countries wont be able to afford lfs in a day, check around you. They will just try to save bit by bit to buy things.
Discrimination by money is how all capitalistic economy work.
"No money, no honey."
Get your facts updated.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG