The online racing simulator
Rfactor vs LFS ... pretty impressive
(528 posts, started )
Quote from JJ72 :HOF on RFC have little to do with physics, people tend to vote for 1.popular series 2.fast cars 3.eye candies

Very much agreed

Quote :VLN 2007 and 2005 are good mods to drive in as well. Be it a league race(which there are aweful lot of) or single player.

Good in what terms? Accurate physics?
Is this the Corvette mod in question
Quote from FooAtari :Very much agreed



Good in what terms? Accurate physics?

physics are not hardcore, the cars feel too grippy, but the speeds are nice. I like how it's mixed class racing. You've got almost stock honda civics racing at the same time as twin turbo'ed 500+HP porsches.



Yeah foo, that's the correct corvette mod.
There are more than just 2 mods with above average physics and feeling in rFactor, in the hall of fame.

HistorX
PCC 2007
Epsilon Euskadi
BMW 320 E21
Legend Cars
WTCC BMW E90
Spirit of '76
Porsche Fabcar Challenge
1955 F1
288 GTO Challenge

These are certainly worth trying.
Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :
I think at the moment I'm relatively happy with the Corvette C6 mod, provided you get the latest unofficial update at my crappy site http://geocities.com/n_heusink ... rphysics/physicsfiles.htm

I'd assumed that physics was experimental. Will give it a try.

Regarding the C6 version on rFactorcentral: I take it that that physics is improved since 2007 when the Brands Hatch hotlaps were done? - Because I was nearly half a second faster than the fastest using the default setup and fairly leisurely.

Lot of fun to drive the C6 and my favourite out of the few rFactor mods I've tried, but to be honest, to me it (the rfactorcentral version) still suffers with the ISI issue of the rear getting away and not correcting properly with countersteer. I end up making the usual stabbing overcorrections to catch it and then straightening up quickly before the snap-back (I'm on G25 with the right settings btw). The part of the ISI problem to me is that the snap-back happens without the initial lateral sliding motion slowing down properly first, which logically ought to happen before the rear wheels bite again surely? It's as though just as you notice the countersteer isn't doing what it should do, and you give more, the bugger snaps back the opposite way completely unexpectedly. Bloody annoying. Is that intrinsically incurable with the core physics?
Quote from Gills4life :There are more than just 2 mods with above average physics and feeling in rFactor, in the hall of fame.

HistorX
PCC 2007
Epsilon Euskadi
BMW 320 E21
Legend Cars
WTCC BMW E90
Spirit of '76
Porsche Fabcar Challenge
1955 F1
288 GTO Challenge

These are certainly worth trying.

All great mods! the newish team players C6r is also a dam solid drive!

also:

Série Internationale Du Mans and the Zonda!
Quote from FooAtari :Is this the Corvette mod in question

Yup.


Also I seem to like to race the "JDM Drift cars mod"

It's really fun when trying to get the most non-drift fun out of it at a downhill track.

Also there's the Volvo 300 mod out by JTbo, doesnt really look good but drives awesomely
Quote from Gills4life :There are more than just 2 mods with above average physics and feeling in rFactor, in the hall of fame.

HistorX
PCC 2007
Epsilon Euskadi
BMW 320 E21
Legend Cars
WTCC BMW E90
Spirit of '76
Porsche Fabcar Challenge
1955 F1
288 GTO Challenge

These are certainly worth trying.

Tried them all before Legends is pretty good, HistorixX is excellent. the others listed didnt grab me as much.
Quote from FooAtari :Tried them all before Legends is pretty good, HistorixX is excellent. the others listed didnt grab me as much.

Are you being serious? You didn't think ANY of the others felt good? Maybe you have not got it set up right. They feel excellent to me.
Quote from Gills4life :Are you being serious? You didn't think ANY of the others felt good? Maybe you have not got it set up right. They feel excellent to me.

They were OK, I didn't say they were bad. Just didn't feel they were good enough to be worth keeping. I only have time to use a few mods, so just want the very best ones.
I play lfs with a pad. Though i'm not that great at it as for one thing my ps2 pad is a bit knackerd and i have to push the stick diagonally right else the breaks stay on, and it idles quite high and generally the sticks are not as smooth as they used to be. But overall I can still have fun. But I do feel more confined to the drift/d&d servers as i'm fairly slow at racing which sux a bit and find it hard to stay concentrated looking at the screen for over 2 or 3 laps.

I have to say though that I could probably not drive my real car with a ps2 controller... however i'm no so sure for certain as in a real car you get a lot of feedback from the car through your ass as well as just through the steering wheel and ofc being strapped into a mooving object which has the effect of g force tugging at your body parts helps you feel your car.


So sure using a wheel will make it easier to play the game as well. If you have driven a car then using a wheel in a video game is similair. I originally rode a scooter before i had a car and it took me time to adjust to driving a car. I'd often in my lessons grab the wheel to stop rather than going for the pedals.

I think the only way a sim can ever feel like a real car totally is if you are overflowing with cash and can afford to set your lfs up inside one of those boxes which has the hydraulic arms that shakes you around and stuff. If you have ever gotten into one of those car simulators where you go into the box and then the screen plays and you get shaken around. I went in the colin mcrae one which had him in his impreza and i could not drive and that felt so real even though i was just the passenger and i'll freely admit I was terrified as the expirience was so alien and just like an explosion to the senses.

But overall a sim no matter what it is just a sim. lfs can help you understand car controll, weight distribution, etc but chances are even with a wheel you would not be able to drift a real car. Though it might give you a head start in understanding the fundamentals of what to do.

I think though if lfs had a good damage modeling implemented then I think it would cause players to be more aware of their virtual surroundings

Lfs is good though. It's one of the hardest racing games i've ever played yet the niggling tiney bugs such as the bouncy barriers and randomly being shot into oblivion do annoy me whenever it happens. Not enough to stop playing as the rest of the game is pretty well done.

Still credit where credit is due. For a 3 man team it's pretty impressive epecially as you have all the web based stats pages and such that come with the game and the cool virtual race track that lets you admin/watch your players on your server and being able to upload your own skins, see your best times online and all the other lfsw stuff.

However, for the price of the game I think you do get quite a big bang for your buck. I would welcome new tracks and cars and would not mind paying a little for them but that is unlikey to happen.

I went a little off topic. But oppinions are free and everyone has one.
This is age old debate is quite simple.



Yes LFS may contain more physics calculations than rfactor, but it seems to over emphasise things to try and let you know they exist.

So basically, they are both giving their interpretation of what physics SHOULD be, and are not truly replicating them.

</thread>

<thread> next same old topic? how about a scirocco this time.
Quote from jaykay3000 :

But overall a sim no matter what it is just a sim. lfs can help you understand car controll, weight distribution, etc but chances are even with a wheel you would not be able to drift a real car. Though it might give you a head start in understanding the fundamentals of what to do.



when i 1st started drifting i was linking corners pretty much right away thanks to LFS, learned from using a G25 in LFS

it helps alot, 2 of our top drifters here used to drift in LFS to
Quote from Gills4life :
PCC 2007
BMW 320 E21
Spirit of '76
288 GTO Challenge

These are certainly worth trying.

They all have completely implausible tyres and fail at the first hurdle as a result.

Quote :
Epsilon Euskadi

Just about everything was guessed and not even close or logical, in a weird thread over at RSC the physics creator got reprimanded for flaming anyone who made logical constructive criticism.
Quote from ajp71 :They all have completely implausible tyres and fail at the first hurdle as a result.

Apart from the fact that they all feel believable and they are all fun to drive. None of them have the ridiculous feeling of no return once you lose traction, so not so implausible and hardly fail, that is just your opinion.

Quote from ajp71 :Just about everything was guessed and not even close or logical, in a weird thread over at RSC the physics creator got reprimanded for flaming anyone who made logical constructive criticism.

Niels changed the physics himself. I would not have mentioned the Euskadi's if I was talking about the original 1.00 release. Things have been known to be updated in the past you know..
The 288GTO really is subpar in physics department, it really does stood out (and I have absolutely no idea why it is a HOF).

1955 F1 is something nobody can rate, because nobody knows how it is suppose to drive.

the rest I have to agree with ajp, once you take a look at the tire curve, you will be rather puzzled why after all those work they don't put in a realistic tyre value, no like it is difficult.
The 288GTO's feel very good to me. 1955 F1 IS something that we can rate because it is comparable to how GPL feels. I am not puzzled at all, I just download updates.
While it feels too grippy to me, it has grip level of almost modern touring cars.

a 1955 F1 car with bicycle tires and huge lump of engine in the front is comparable to how GPL feels? um....why would it be?
Quote from JJ72 :While it feels too grippy to me, it has grip level of almost modern touring cars.

I am wondering if you are even talking about the same car as I am? It has no where near the grip of modern touring cars. The back end gets real loose quite often and it is saveable unlike a lot of the poor rFactor mods. It's great fun to drive. I never said it is perfect, nothing is. I just recommended it because it IS good.

Quote from JJ72 :a 1955 F1 car with bicycle tires and huge lump of engine in the front is comparable to how GPL feels? um....why would it be?

Ok I really do not have a clue what you are getting at here. It didn't seem to make much sense, so I will just say that I have driven GPL and I have driven the 55' F1 car in rFactor. They do not feel too different from each other, although the feedback is different. The creator of the mod did a good job making it feel decent within the flaws of rfactor's engine.
Quote from ajp71 :They all have completely implausible tyres and fail at the first hurdle as a result.

Just about everything was guessed and not even close or logical, in a weird thread over at RSC the physics creator got reprimanded for flaming anyone who made logical constructive criticism.

ajp, what mods in your opinion are most accurate and as a reult work very real with RealFeel. These days if a mod does not fully support RealFeel, which I guess means the suspension has to be built in CarFactory, I wont bother with it.
HistorX and CTDP06 are the best places to start in my opinion. Both come with their own real feel settings and both try to simulate 2 completely different types and eras of the sport.
Quote from 5haz :Rfactor is good once you take a year or two to set it up properly, LFS is good right out of the box. The quality of LFS is also fairly consistant, unlike Rfactor! But then Rfactor has a lot nore variety when it comes to cars/ tracks. But most Rfactor mods are virtually undrivable.

+1 for this.
I have experienced using rFactor as a sim tool when my friend used it to prepare for a real life race (not a serious pro race, but a very good club event). I know how well it works if the mod is good enough.

But, making a good mod is not so easy, and too many mods are confusing rF communities.

I played rF a lot in the last several months. But when I decided to take sim racing seriously, I turned to LFS. This is not because LFS has better physics, but the better on-line racing ability it has. People play the same cars & car all over the world, and people all over the world can race together. For rF it's totally impossible.

BTW, rF lags MUCH less than LFS. You can do contact racing under 1000 ping with out crashing.
Quote from Gills4life :Ok I really do not have a clue what you are getting at here. It didn't seem to make much sense, so I will just say that I have driven GPL and I have driven the 55' F1 car in rFactor. They do not feel too different from each other, although the feedback is different. The creator of the mod did a good job making it feel decent within the flaws of rfactor's engine.

F1 cars in 55 have much skinner tires, and an much heavier engine placed in the front, and much much higher centre of gravity compare to those in GPL (late 60's cars). I mean they shouldn't feel even close.
Quote from JJ72 :F1 cars in 55 have much skinner tires, and an much heavier engine placed in the front, and much much higher centre of gravity compare to those in GPL (late 60's cars). I mean they shouldn't feel even close.

I meant that the 55 mod can be comparable to how the car acts to similar inputs in GPL. Not that the cars handle exactly the same.
Quote from Gills4life :Apart from the fact that they all feel believable and they are all fun to drive. None of them have the ridiculous feeling of no return once you lose traction, so not so implausible and hardly fail, that is just your opinion.

They all either have unrealistic tyre drop off curves, or other completely wrong variables (usually crazy slip angles), they may not feel that bad but just a quick bit of guessing in carfactory and some copying and pasting can 90% of the time produce a more convincing result without botching data.

Quote :
Niels changed the physics himself. I would not have mentioned the Euskadi's if I was talking about the original 1.00 release. Things have been known to be updated in the past you know..

Niels physics have never been released officially as far as I'm aware, they have no relation to the official mod and is great fun to drive

Quote from FooAtari :ajp, what mods in your opinion are most accurate and as a reult work very real with RealFeel. These days if a mod does not fully support RealFeel, which I guess means the suspension has to be built in CarFactory, I wont bother with it.

Historic GT & Touring - the big one, requires GTL
EOAA GT - a collection of GT1 cars, requires GTR2
Caterhams
Legends
CSGT Holiday Preview - to become the full 1970 WSC within days
Corvette - Niel's road version
Ferrari 312B - scary!
Formula 3 - this mod

There are other mods that are passable but get things wrong, TCL and NAGT spring to mind but they'd be so much better with the little things corrected. I've yet to find a modern F1 mod that's even worth bothering with. Thankfully some good mods are finally coming out, the Caterhams and Historic GT both have a good following and with the 1970 WSC mod due for release any moment fans of historics will be spoilt for choice

Rfactor vs LFS ... pretty impressive
(528 posts, started )
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