The online racing simulator
Any WIP new physics progress?
(234 posts, started )
I don't give a hoot about damage, I want tire heat fixed.
Quote from Scawen :Thinking forward in the short-medium range I would like to:

1) Release an update with the current physics, with Eric's Blackwood fixes and minor updates on Westhill and Rockingham including 3D kerbs.
2) Finish some graphical updates that will help with new tracks.
3) Get back to tyre physics and release it with the Scirocco.

Note, that is not a list of promises. It is simply a short list of things as I personally see it.

In the future I am still interested in various things that the LFS team and I cannot make any promises about, but I can state an interest in. Such as bikes, karts, trucks, user created content.

Any progress on list off non promises? Smile
Recently I have been working on graphical updates, in the form of some more shaders that Eric can make good use of. There was quite a bit of restructuring to make it more consistent between the different types of objects and easier to add more in future.

So, looking at the list you quoted in the post above, that means number 2 has moved in front of number 1. This is to allow Eric to make some use of the new shaders in the updated Rockingham, Blackwood and Westhill tracks before they are released.
Refactoring is like sharpening your axe. No wood gets cut while you do it, but afterwards you can cut more over the long term than if you just kept swinging without doing it.

Users don’t see much as happening, but it’s setting yourself up for the long term, and is better than hacking things in.


Currently busting my balls in refactoring and porting a mammoth spaghetti code commercial VB6 project to a new language, and it’s going to be a year or so before the customer notices anything different, and longer still before the real juicy stuff can come along.
But only 3) get things structurally moving. So we see what happens next year then (like every other year). [not negative, just realistic]
Quote from Scawen :Recently I have been working on graphical updates, in the form of some more shaders that Eric can make good use of. There was quite a bit of restructuring to make it more consistent between the different types of objects and easier to add more in future.

So, looking at the list you quoted in the post above, that means number 2 has moved in front of number 1. This is to allow Eric to make some use of the new shaders in the updated Rockingham, Blackwood and Westhill tracks before they are released.

Seems nice and fair enough. Any more detail about these new shaders? Still working on the glossiness texture support or there are new effects added? Smile
Think this good news Thumbs up


Quote from cargame.nl :But only 3) get things structurally moving. So we see what happens next year then (like every other year). [not negative, just realistic]

I believe how the game looks and feels make new guys stick in demo and maybe go liced.
I will continue here waiting for the car that I like the most!

Volkswagen Scirocco Shy LFS Na-na
"Fingers crossed!" EDIT: ( Depending you looking at it. )
So, next update : points 1 and 2.
And the one after ... LFS Heart Na-na
Graphical updates is not what this sim needs imo. People play lfs for the physics, not graphics. The reason alot of people leave lfs for assetto corsa is that ac has user created content. Lfs has very limitted content. The most important thing for lfs now is content.
Developer + Bike = Slowly working. Frown

Sell Bike and back Dev + Lfs = Fast Working!

xd
Well... it does need graphical updates to stay vaguely up to date. If you take a look at the really old versions of LFS, you'll see it has come along a great deal over the years and there wouldn't be anyone at all online any more if it looked now how it did back then.

That is important, and it's important for me to try and make sure the 3D system can allow Eric to create the effects he wants to. Or at least some of the effects. I'm always behind what he would really like it to be.

I had a relaxed month in August due to the school holidays and had a nice time here with the family. I'm back on getting some updated shaders finished so that Eric will be able to use them. We'll be able to release a patch with some fixes and graphical updates on Blackwood, Rockingham and Westhill.

Then what I really want to do is get the tyre physics finished so we can release the needed updates and then hopefully get onto supporting some elements of user created content. I can't be any more specific on that as there are no fixed plans.
Quote from GT4_PL :Developer + Bike = Slowly working. Frown

Sell Bike and back Dev + Lfs = Fast Working!

xd

What you try to say is more like Developer + Life = Slow Work

Sell Life and go back to LFS = Fast Work!

But we all are required to live our lives. Including me too ( at least sometimes for now, HAH! )

Quote from Scawen :Well... it does need graphical updates to stay vaguely up to date. If you take a look at the really old versions of LFS, you'll see it has come along a great deal over the years and there wouldn't be anyone at all online any more if it looked now how it did back then.

That is important, and it's important for me to try and make sure the 3D system can allow Eric to create the effects he wants to. Or at least some of the effects. I'm always behind what he would really like it to be.

I had a relaxed month in August due to the school holidays and had a nice time here with the family. I'm back on getting some updated shaders finished so that Eric will be able to use them. We'll be able to release a patch with some fixes and graphical updates on Blackwood, Rockingham and Westhill.

Then what I really want to do is get the tyre physics finished so we can release the needed updates and then hopefully get onto supporting some elements of user created content. I can't be any more specific on that as there are no fixed plans.

Would that be also attached to LFSWorld as well? Of course, as mentioned, no fixed plans, so I think this question is revealed far too early.
This will be an ever lasting discussion.
If Scawen is working on phyiscs (and this takes a lot of time to get it together in the first place and then get it right after that) people are 'moaning' about wanting more content.
But if Scawen/Eric would decide to put time into creating content and then release that, people start to 'moan' about the time the new physics (and therefor release of Sirocco) will be released.
Personaly I think there is enough content in LFS (plenty of cars and tracks to choose from) and even the release of new content like Rockingham (or updated Blackwood etc.) made people bored a few weeks after that.

Bottom line is that Scavier will never be able to put up with the developement pace and budgets of big gaming companies (not that they want that, a case for them of been there, done that) so progress will always be (very) slow, compared to companies like IE or Codemasters.
The other side is that the things they do deliver are of the highest quality and if not, they give proper support.
Look at what those big companies put on the markets (half baked games, more like alpha's or earlier beta's), then 'support' that with a few patches to solve the biggest issues (if possible) and then move on to the next itteration of their game.
Read the Codemasters forum for example and see how bad F1 2017 is (which is the case every year) and compare that to the quality you will get in LFS.
Scawen you said that new physics will be optimised downward to run smooth on typical PC. Are you going to leave some room, for yourself, to easly step into higher precision phys (or other drive-related simulations like aero, flexible parts etc.) when/if multicore CPU support will come to LFS?
LFS already uses multiple cores since.. Eehh.. I think patch G or something.

edit: Oh it was patch J
I think real hard core don't care much about cpu use.
Hhmm I think "soft core" do not care about cpu usage. People who do not care about "hard core" racing have no interest in how it can affect the ability to race like an alien. Or just have insufficient knowledge slash notice of the physics and netcode. It's impossible to perform great in a race if a CPU core runs out of resources.

But since J this is not really an issue anymore. For this moment.. But more advanced tire physics require probably more CPU power, there is only one person who knows about this.
Quote from cargame.nl :LFS already uses multiple cores since.. Eehh.. I think patch G or something.
edit: Oh it was patch J

I don't think so. Hmm, pretty sure Scawen said multi core support is song of a future, and its not easy to step into. I have only 1 core loaded >20% in LFS, rest is near idle (~1-3%).

Even some nowadays games are limited to 4 cores, and handle it better or worse. There was a damn big stagnation in this matter for years. Thankfully this year we got mid-end 6 core CPUs.
Quote from cargame.nl :You missed a bit of discussion/development in the past I presume.. Better read that first Wink

Here let me help you; https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/87997

--
Ah it is here.. https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1891181#post1891181

And LFS uses two threads since this patch release, I was there when it happened. Where was you?

Thanks, that's what I was exactly reffering to.
Quote from Scawen :The reason multithreading is not at the top of the imaginary priority list (although as you quoted, I did say "I'd like to do physics and graphics on separate threads at some point") is because it is very difficult and requires a huge restructure of the graphics and physics systems. It could take months, after dealing with the can of worms it would open. It simply has lower priority than the S3 content, track object shaders, the dynamic reflections on the cars, the tyre physics and rift support.

And next you say "Sad to hear that multi threading is extremely difficult to do."
Bro are you trolling me or something? Smile Where is the part about two cores?
Ye, this was 2015, now its 2017.. It's a test patch thread and the final patch brought massive improvements, one of them the usage of CPU. Look, if you don't follow the progress, it is OK. But it gets a little bit annoying to explain stuff which happened years ago and you failed to attend it.

LFS uses more then one thread/core, end of story. Patch H 12% CPU usage (1/8 = 12%) . Patch J beyond 12%.. If you need screenshots bring money to the table because this is a waste of time. Worst of all.. CPU is no bottleneck anymore since patch J in the current situation so this is a complete total pointless discussion (aka waste of time).
I'm going to say one thing and leave it out there: Please don't forget about the low-end users!

Sure you can add fancy shaders/graphic updates and make it the best looking game ever, but currently you can play LFS on a potato, and that was the selling point for me!

Smile

Any WIP new physics progress?
(234 posts, started )
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