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South City 150 (Round 4) Discussion Thread
Discussion regarding the 2012 South City 150 (Round #4 of the 2012 World TBO Championship Series) may be made here.

Round 4 – South City 150 – 48 laps at SO5R – November 4, 2012 – 16:00 GMT - Official Layout - Weather

Qualifying Begins: 16:00 GMT
Race begins (if qualifying in 1 group): 16:45 GMT
Estimated Race Conclusion: 18:20 GMT

A pre-race driver breifing will be PM'ed to all registered competitors and may be in the form of a video or text. All participants are expected to watch or read all of this text. This will occur overnight for most drivers (based on their local time) on Friday night/Saturday morning.

Stream: (none)
Tracker: http://tracker.ident-racing.net/RealisticNASCAR/
LFS Remote: http://www.lfsworld.net/remote/?host=Realistic+NASCAR+Server
SPDO Scoring: http://www.spdoracing.com/satellite/host/290967/live
A very frustrating little track to get the best out of it. We at Ixion have spent quite a bit of time on it this week and we still believe that setups can be better than where we are at. It's like little Monaco of LFS, always can be better.

I particularly like sector one and that interesting hairpin. Twisty stuff is nice too, but a touch too bumpy for my flavor. The guys who drove 24h race on so4r (this track with straight going longer to t1) might know it a little bit better than me, still the tires are big issue. The short straight really doesn't give opportunity to cool down at all and fast corners prevent you from keeping them cool in the first place.

The overtaking will be particularly difficult as it ever is, just a bit more difficult for all this characteristics of this track. Let's have a fair and cleaner racing than we usually do.

As ever I hope for wind, as this seems to be where I am stronger than Joe atm, because his PB from today looks too amazing as well as his tire management from first two rounds. And it will be interesting to see how consistent can he be with so many walls in the race.

However, the goal for me still stays to finish on podium and possibly extend the championship lead.
I predict a pileup in turn 2 of 1st lap... (been there,done that )
The front of the grid will hopefully escape pileup. But, eventually SC might come out.
#5 - Sobis
Good read Niki
I wouldn't say your stronger in wind niki, but lets see
I appear to be struggling in qualy, which is generally a place I seem to be fairly strong at, so I will be amazed if pole position comes my way
Probably won't be able to drive today
No stream?
Airio has been connected to the server for pre-race warm-up only
Qualifying begins in 40 min! Reminder because in some places there has been a time change! Your local time changes do not effect GMT so if your time fell back the race is relativly 1 hour sooner!
Quote from Eclipsed :I predict a pileup in turn 2 of 1st lap...

Seems like everyone felt warned exept the guy just behind me,thank you Mats...
Otherwise - my setup was too tight,was stuggling to turn the car in turns,later in race was pushing the car sideways intentionally just to avoid too much pressure on fronts,as rears were fine for the distance. Pretty much fights in early stages,had a chance to pass few guys and pull away too. 14th at end,not bad by an average driver as me,but not very good either. Semi-satisfied.
Very very very bad start
One race to forget, I didn't expect much with no preparation anyway. Struggling with low FPS and heavy damage.

Sorry for RoamerF1, squeezed on him coming out of I don't know which turn, PC lagged, I went sideways and we touched, wasn't intentional.

Grats to Joe, nice gap you built up.
Perfect race for me
Qualy went well, never expected pole position but I guess I managed to pull something together which was good enough.
Race went very well, wasn't too focused on times as I knew tyres would be a nightmare, and they was... Was driving around for about 20 laps with them at 80degree which wasn't at all fun! Finally they cooled enough so that I could do some half decent laps and take the fastest lap, some extra points for the championship (I think)

Nice to see Isaac taking p2, took some points away from Niki which is what I needed really.

Grats podium!
Qualifying was pretty good, but I couldn't get the race setup work through whole race, so obviously the race was painful. Hopefully in the next race I could race for podium places!

Grats Joe,Isaac and Niki
Well, I've been asked by admins to give my version of events here of the last lap incident here, so I'll include that in my race review from my perspective. If you only care about me ranting with a crash with Niki go to the 3rd paragraph, dont waste your time with the top 2.

Qual, about halfway through I thought I was in for a disaster. I hadn't prepared enough for Q. But then I started getting SC1 somewhat decent, and eventually did a .24 which was enough for 3rd. If I had got it a little bit better in last sc, 2nd was possible for me but 3rd was as good as 2nd really. With Niki in 5th, I was hopeful I could maybe haul in the gap in championship a little, and hopefully finish 2nd behind Joe. Was nice to see Toni back, along with Joonas & Emyn too. Atleast with me they didn't cause any problems in lap 1-2 for me personally, and more competition is always good.

Race: Well, my initial start was great. I knew I had a good chance to pass in t1 with inside and Joe usually having good reactions. Thats pretty much how it happened, with Niki following me through too. It looked a bit messy, but thats only from what I saw in mirrors. I was surprised I was able to push Joe in the first lap or 2, but then I made a mistake as its quite hard to follow another car with all the walls etc without making 1. This allowed Niki to put a very opportunistic dive on me, I had to turn out of the corner not to have a contact which would put me into the wall but it got the job done for him I guess, I'm the sort of driver who knows enough about whats going on in his mirrors to be able to trust with that sort of move. If I'd turned in that wouldnt have been pretty. Anyway then pretty much I was stuck there, I could close the gap but I overheated my tyres and then would make a mistake and have the same situation again. The gap was always 1.2s or less, I just couldn't find a way past and whenever I did get a run on Niki with backmarkers etc, he turned across me to give himself a speed boost on straights and I had nowhere to go. Maybe that was fair game considering I bumped him a couple of times in the last corner. Small contact is acceptable here, atleast Niki and Joe havent had any penalties for that when they've had battles with me/others across the season. It was frustrating but it would always be difficult against someone like Niki on a track like this with a car like this. Until the last lap I was pretty much stuck...

My tyres were cooling quite nicely and I knew, backmarkers ahead, nice tyres, last lap so no chance to attack after this...now was the time if I was gonna make something happen, it had to be now. He had less than a half chance at the start, went for it and I gave way with the bigger picture in mind. Considering that, I felt it was worth a go. I got a run out of t1, going towards t2 I tried to make him take a defensive line, and go for a good exit myself with the backmarkers. We made very minor contact on the apex of t2, which was exaggerated by lag. He then came across on me a little under acceleration as I got a better exit and slowed me down/sped himself up by doing that. It was a small thing, but small things make a difference. Considering the series, I guess that its borderline but ok. Then I wanted to try and dive on the inside in the fast right hander in sector 2, but he saw that and covered it, but overshot the corner himself and slid into the wall on the outside. As I then had to compromise my line not to hit him, but still keep myself alongside not to give up the opportunity I then basically was forced to take the corner at a narrower line, which led to me slightly understeering because of the tight line I was forced in with considering his mistake. I then hit him around and there was just nothing either could do. Based on the other decisions this season(KY3R R1 me vs Niki still in my memory very well ) I felt it was worth carrying on rather than giving the place back because the only difference was I gave him space allowing for a mistake and got pushed off the road, he didnt give space and span.

Obviously the admins can say/do what they want. Maybe their does need to be a clarification on it, but what do you want me to do? I asked after KY3R, and you didn't change the rule/do anything for it. He still dived me and forced me to get out of the way or have a crash. When someone does the opposite and doesnt get out of the way, it would be silly to then penalise the driver who has been getting out of the way to avoid those crashes all season because he didn't get out of the way when I did. I'm pretty sure most people who race with Niki would certainly say he has double standards when it comes to racing incidents involving himself. But everyone should be judged on an incident by incident basis, otherwise bias will be involved etc. Whatever you decide is your decision, but you set a precedent which I talked to you about. It only cost him a place to me, like it did with me at KY3R. He didnt get a penalty so I don't see why you should change the rules as you go along. If you see you made a mistake with that decision, make the clarification after the race, you can't race with 1 set of rules and then change them to specifically punish 1 driver.

But Gratz to Joe for again great pace, after me and Niki started battling on lap 4 the small chance to get ahead from a mistake was gone

Sorry for the essay.
So, the race full of events, here's another essay as well as few thoughts on the incident as requested.

Just didn't have enough quali pace today, but fixed that with a great start. As I said already to Joonas contact we had was a mistake and even without it I would have passed easily. Now, after few laps I cought up with Isaac and after his mistake I was right there, ready to pounce and so I did take him down, with a brilliantly precise dive down the inside, as he left the door wide open, leaving him powerless but to make way as I was fully along side for a perfectly clean move. Gave him plenty of room on the exit, not pushing him into a wall or anything like that, dropped down to 1st and powered out into 2nd place.

He obviously couldn't take this without taking his rage out and plauted into back of me right away in the next corner. Obviously, he took unfair advantage and the place back, however all in vain as I got him under brakes in T1, again. Unfortunately, he just wouldn't deal with it and the pressure was so high I hit the wall later in the lap taking some damage.

Obviously, I pushed more than the tires really allowed to stay ahead and once they cooled down a bit I had a bit of gap in my pocket. But, he just wouldn't deal with it. As if I stole a place from him and after building this little gap, he would hit the back of my car under braking for hairpin to make my exit slow, numerous times in the race. His favorite driver (Alonso) would be disgusted by this behavior. Once, twice can be a mistake, but for the love of god... even Joe finds a way not to hit someone in the back under braking. I consider that the most unfair way to gain an advantage personally. If you have a look at the replay from my car you can perfectly see how easy it is to avoid that contact in hairpin when I was chasing him, just duck out to the right a little bit and you have same good exit, gained fairly. Sometimes, it was because of this why gap didn't increase and sometimes it was backmarkers playing more luck to him.

He even tried to make a dive on me in second to last corner somewhere mid race, but I had it covered, always. And driving to have the good exits, well isn't that something that you had done to me last race and still I made zero contact to you last race...

Now, the last lap. If I didn't brake as late as I did, he would have hit the back of me there as he did few laps earlier. In that incident few laps earlier he lost a bit of ground, but still subconsciously you always want to avoid these things. Anyway, wall hit is nothing bad, its last lap and bit more dmg dont matter, so I just keep the car in slide out of corner, have to mention I didn't really have other choice, the slide came natural and I had to keep it in slide, and suddenly I'm hit! It was the only line I could take and he wasn't even side by side, just lurking his nose in. You can't even pass around the outside in next corner. If you have a look at the replay you can see that he actually accelerates not to avoid contact, but to cause it. And eventhough the rules say that some contact is tolerable in last laps, which would only then make the hit in the rear bumper in hairpin justifiable, rules also say that competitors are asked to give their fellow competitors the fairest chance to escape on track incident. A desperate man, calls for desperate measures and replay can confirm that even though he saw me with car just in control, he decided to accelerate and cause contact in very convenient place (over bump) where I could no longer save it.

Was it this deliberate, I think we will never know. I can't understand why would someone compare this to round 1, where the situation isn't even similar to this. There, we were completely side by side, both in control over the cars and I was slightly in front, when passing, not just lurking my nose in, on exit of the corner and you didn't spin as a consequence.

If we're gonna compare it, I would compare it to Round 3, lap 1, when he dived into fast right corner and I left room with drift around him, and that time he avoided this deadly contact, unlike this time. I hope the justice will be served.

Also, the traffic could be a little bit more cooperative I have to say. Many times I lost gap to Isaac because I had to overtake traffic as if I was racing them for position. Now, I understand when it's someone racing closely, even then they need to compromise a little bit, but when someone is alone being lapped, really rude.

Grats to Joe. That pace is little bit out of reach it seems, this race, just like it was at round 1, one has to say in all fairness.

And grats to my teammate Sma, finishing P6 in only his 2nd or 3rd race in your series.
I watched the replay just moments ago as I obviously didn't see it during the race :P
Its a weird one I think;
Isaac puts the pressure on with a small 'dummy' and Niki then overshoots/out brakes the turn and hits the wall. I would have done the same as Isaac, having seen that Niki wont be making the apex of the turn just slam it up the inside. Its almost like a unsafe rejoin what Niki does in the sense that he just carries on like nothing has happened and goes straight to the apex of the turn, in the back of your mind Niki im sure you knew he would put his car there, we all would. Maybe it was a heat of the moment move from Isaac, a last lap lunge?

Personally I would have made the same move, there is nothing he can do from it. You see a mistake, you try and make profit from it. From Isaac's car it looks like Niki comes across and basically causes himself to spin from attempting to cut Isaac up. Then you look from Niki's car and it looks like Isaac hits his rear and spins him...

If it wasn't for Niki hitting the wall the move would never have been attempted, racing incident? Perhaps so, yes

Of course this is only my opinion and im in no doubt Niki will reply saying im biased because I want him to lose points so I have a shot at the championship

But yeah, in a nut shell I think its racing incident
Quote from kart-36 :Of course this is only my opinion and im in no doubt Niki will reply saying im biased because I want him to lose points so I have a shot at the championship

Yes, you are biased and we can also say it could have been avoided if he hadn't gained unfair advantage by hitting my rear bumper for god knows which time in hairpin... My luck to have a close chaser on my tail on track with hairpins this season, only... I don't know, I at least tried to supply my case with rules... And both of you are just talking from a perspective of overaggressive drivers. Now, please don't call me overaggressive because I dived to pass, so did JButton many many times.

Would I put my nose in there you wonder, well obviously not. And once again, I was just holding my line even though it was a bit wider, because of the wall, then narrowed down to normal racing line, it can not be called unsafe rejoin, because he did not have enough overlap, as far as I know and can see and I never even left the track in the first place!

I know, you would want him to take more points away from me as possible and I know some other guys would like to be blocked a little bit less when I'm in front, him, you, Joonas and whoever, whereever, whenever. But I'm here to make the best possible result within the rules and please you know none of us does favors to each other, on track.

Anyway, it's down to admins to decide based on the rules, not our opinions.
If I gained an unfair advantage by bumping you, what do you call the times you turned into me on a straight, or moved across underbraking into my line. I'm not going to be bullied into 3rd place. Sorry that you weren't fast enough to keep me in 2nd place with your silly divebombing, virtually stopping midcorner, weaving into me on straights and under braking for t1. I made a mistake or 2 to hit you, but the reality is my fastest lap was slower than my fastest lap start of stint in practice because of you being infront of me, so if you'd gone faster then I would have just kept pace with you. Surely thats obvious by how I would catch you in 1 lap, then make a mistake because im having to take a different line to you every lap to try and force a mistake, and then make 1 myself. If you were faster I would have gone faster too so I'm sorry to burst your bubble there. I know you want to beat Joe in this championship so badly that you're willing to really push your luck with your defence/overtake tactics. Thats why you're so desperate to get me a penalty, anyway. Truth is you made a mistake after 48 laps of being put under pressure, and then slid trying to block me and like Joe said, most people would do the same as me I think.
Quote from IsaacPrice :Thats why you're so desperate to get me a penalty, anyway.

That's why and I generally want to finish ahead of you any race. Turning into you when you tried to overtake, dude you had no right to be there, you deal with consequences of being there. Turning into you on straights, it's only slightly and it's just to break the effect of you ramming my ass, again. And yet, it's only not to be passed. And you did it last race to me and I said no word about that, cos I knew I'd do it myself.

If I wasn't punted in the rear again, I might have focused and gone quicker... You were just so desperate to pass me trying to make something happen, that will never happen. So pls let's rave about this all night.

EDIT: I did make a mistake after 48 laps of pressure and so what, that means I have to just stop and let you pass me... Get real. -.-

P.S. You might also want to learn about overlap rules, it's very important in close racing you know, I have links to CRC rules if you need help finding it.
Why have you just said that Niki... Complete face palm.
You've blatantly just admitted to hitting him as a revenge to his taps he was giving you :|

Edit: wake up Niki, giving advise about overtakes and clean racing, just wake up. Every single race your having an argument with somebody about some overtake which has gone badly. Now your gonna crawl into your bubble and tell me it's always the other person at fault? It was you who made the error, you who left the door open. Infact let's refer it to your 'super perfect excellently executed dive' where you just said the door was open, now what would happen if Isaac just turned in? Funny that, you left door open... But then turned in... Ah well
The pass:I had overlap, he couldn't close it, cappish. Much like how you passed me in R2.
Straights:I never hit him, it's a gentle brush, it doesn't even effect things very much... I never said I'm cleanest racer who has ever lived. I'm saying that I'm staying within the rules, that's my point.

And I can't understand why you two have to be so annoying when you get to overtaking me. It's not helping your cause much. I don't feel the fear very much, I'm way too experienced in my bubble haha.

The thing is, he followed for entire race and instead of playing tactics as you did in round 2, he just went for dumb hits to take my car down to peaces. Many times after the hits my car was damaged too... Might be also why I didn't go as fast I could have possibly wanted. Besides, it doesn't matter if someone is fractionally slower than the other, because of this or that, it's racing and we're entitled to race for our position aren't we.

So, every race it's argument with you and Isaac who refuse to take advice from me, because you miss the point. I'm not the cleanest racer ever, I'm much like Schumacher, dancing on the edge of the rules and as much as you annoy me with your silly nose poking rear end hitting that annoys you even more I guess. xD

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG