The yellow line rule is there for one reason only, and that rule is to keep drivers entering or exiting the pits from a) losing control and getting hit by cars on the racing line or b) joining the racing line at an inopportune time (i.e., the middle of the banked corner) and getting in the way of a car coming around at full speed.
The only problem with the rule, frankly, is with drivers not obeying it.
This is a complaint about the race officials and the Safety Car drivers. Plus futher down, a note on experience in marshalling oval races.
I an tired of loosing out on EVERY single Start and or Restart behind the Safety Car... The rules CLEARLY STATES:
1) Races are started behind a safety car (hereafter SC), driven at pit limiter speed, in single file. All drivers must leave a gap of at least two (2) car-lengths to the car ahead during the parade lap.
In last 3 races this has not been the case... I WANT THIS TO BE CLEARED UP, either the rules change so that the last 1/4 of the lap is on Speedlimiter, or whole last lap, during the start of the last race we, and Unity got overtaken by 3 cars, unacceptable, because i was trying to drive on the limiter, but watching the replay the safety car is going i guess almost as fast as possible... I was trying to go by the rules and lost 3 places on the start...
Behind the first SC of the race, this was once again the case, not beeing overtaken, but we lost about 5-600 meter, because we once again were on PL as the rules CLEARLY states
2.6) Once the leader has entered the final sector prior to a restart, all drivers must close the gap to the car ahead to a distance of two (2) car-lengths and engage the pit limiter. Please give room and do not ride the bumper of the car ahead--excessive crowding may result in a DT. When the green flag is flown, the SC period and full-course yellow are ended and drivers may disengage the pit limiter and resume racing.
I am not looking for anything to be done for the oval race, i just want this to be taken care of before the last race, i drove half of the last sector on PL, still i was like 5-600 meters behind the car in front of me, and i did not disengage, cos i did not want a DT penalty. I'd rather loose 5-600 meters than loosing 2 laps on DT... Sorry to the once that thought i was a jerk on the track, but only trying to stick to the rules....
And on a different note, STOP WHINING ABOUT YOU PENALTIES, read the rules, Alias Racing Team had used like 1 hour to practise getting pitstops perfect, and we did...
ALIAS RACING TEAM recieved 0 (ZERO) penalties during the race, not even the penalty for the qualifying, where 8 were penalized... Have to say i was having fun every time a pitline crossing penalty was handed out, shows we did the correct preparation for the race...
Other than that, i think IGTC is very professional, and the rules are quite clear, and though it seems a bit boring, the Oval race was quite fun, to take it out of next years calendar would in my opinion be sad. Really a good strategy race, the only race in the calendar that is not all up to the driver, but also to strategy.
On a different note, driving ovals can be tricky, and dangorous, hence in real life marshalls look for damage on cars driving around the track, cos driver cannot allways know how the car looks on the out side, and here is a little tip to the marshals, damage is not dangorous in LFS, but a tire puncture is, and here is my point, either the marshals have to check tire condition, regularly driving on ovals, cos we had a puncture on left front tire on lap 111, but our driver couldn't feel a thing, and laptimes were as they should be... This finally resulted in a crash on lap 126, when the right front tire expired, taking out the Unity Racing entry, as we were on the inside of them when it happened... The driver didn't check the tires as our 3 one hour tests before the race, had told us that tires were not an issue, as they lasted 1 hour 20 to 30 minutes, but by my fault the tires were not changed, this i cannot blame anyone but myself, but IRL the flat left would have been caught by the marshalls... Hope you see this is not a complaint, but a heads up to marshalls in the event they have to marshall another oval race...
My final point here is, either the officials have to check tires on oval race, or each team should be allowed 1 spectator, to take care of our own cars...
Kind regards, and looking forward to round 8
Alias Racing Team
Frank Sonne
Agreed but... I'm ONLY talking about the crossing of it in case of damage attained to ones car PAST the ENTRY to the pit.
I practised the pit in and out enough to NOT make the mistake the entire time I drove to a NORMAL pit stop. I even had to do two pit entries to change drivers after a mix up on my part.
I understand Franke's issue with the Saftey Car periods but until every driver understands the procedure it will continue to be F'ed up. We saw way too many, this late in a series, that seem to not have a clue on how the saftey car works. "You can lead them to water but getting them to take a drink is another story".
The problem is, sorry to say, not mainly the drivers fault, its the Safety Car drivers fault, HE should turn on Pit Limier at the last split and let the field catch up, if not correctly in line, HE should do ANOTHER LAP...
Well, as mentioned earlier we will look into amending the rule for heavily damaged cars. I don't think, however, that your one case of not being able to enter pit lane properly b/c of damage accounts for "95%" of the problems in the officiating. ;]
It has been the practice of the SC to have the field set their pit limiters and then advance to get back in the pits. It is the fields responsibility to keep their limiters on and maintain their speed AT the pit limiter. Many times someone in the field has slowed too much causing spacing in the field.
This pisses off the guys behind them.
DWB.... Read just the part of my post about the 95% and you'll see I'm saying that 95% of the calls were about the yellow pit lines. BTW .. the main reason the pit line rule came about was because of people crossing it coming OUT of the pit into the racing line.
The LFS sim does not penalize anyone for crossing the lines in a race or during a pit. Might be a good suggestion for the Dev's for the next upgrade.
Fair enough, now look at the replay and tell me that the rules are followed... I THINK NOT, listen to what i have to say...
Firstly, i hate having to do this, but the way you answered me to my previous post, just got me frustrated, i feel my answer was worthy of more than just a, well, can't even find the word for it. I hate myself for persuing this... But i feel the rules are not being obayed on all ends, and all i wan't, is that the stupid Safety Car HAS TO OBAY THE RULES, as we do too.
Incident #1 (Starting behind safety car):
Lap no. 1: At the split (THERE IS ONLY ONE ON OVAL) what speed should the SC be going at PASSING split 1??? Yes, definately NOT KM 143, as was the case... What does #02 do, hit the PL, as told by the rules, but i am probably the only one. Comming up behind #11, i don't know what his starting pos is, so i stay behind, I DON'T WANT PENALTIES, he crashes, Rule on SC crash, is that its ok to SAFELY PASS, i lift off the gas, till i can see it's safe to pass. Crossing the Start/Finish line, and then what, i get passed by 3, yes THREE cars, expecting them to be told to fall back, BUT NOTHING HAPPENS (#01, #06 and #09, not looking for them to get LL now)... Well on with it, i catch up, still not wanting to get a DT i stay behind the 3 that just passed me, STILL expecting to be told to repass, BUT NOTHING. The SC is approacing the spilt, and what speed sould he be doing now???? Correct 78 kmh, but he is cruising nicely at 113, at this point i am catching up, and i do what? YES, I ENGANGE MY PL once again, as the rules clearly states i should be doing, Well approaching the start, i am still wondering when i will be told to repass, expecting another formation lap, and then the race goes GREEN, was i expecting that, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE, so before i know it, i am DEAD LAST... So please Benji, did I, or did I not follow the rules. Your reply kinda p'ed me off, cos you made it look like this was my fault, or lack of knowledge of the rules, which i think the replay clearly shows, it is not, i am probably one of the few that actually followed them. The Safety Car didn't, VERY wrong speed passing split. (Sorry to the once that was also following them, i didn't watch from all cars)...
Incident #2 (SC period starting on lap 9, ending on lap 14):
I catch up to the field, now being in 4th, having passed all the once getting DT's from Qualifying... i slow down as i can see the field getting closer, and keep a nice distance, and then what, i get rear-ended, nothing serious for me, but still i get hit, i don't know if he got a penalty for that, but, that is not safe driving in my book, this was #09. (Not looking for him to get LL now). Being behind SC, i keep up all the time this time around, as i don't wan't to get caught out on following the rules again... Passing the line on lap 10 going to lap 11, i brake slightly, so i will not hit the guy in front, 3 cars have an incident behind me, directly linked to my braking, two more are close, but doesn't look like they hit each other... But the rules say, maintain 2 carlengths of space between cars... Well the restart of the race happens at end of lap 14. When the Safety Car ENTERS split, it is doing kmh 138, that is way too high, again max. 80, according to the rules... This time around i am holding my breath trying to keep up, and be ready to brake, still doing over 130, where we should have been on PL. Finally entering the last corner i hit the PL, 22 seconds AFTER entering Split, not daring any more, again not wanting DT. At this point i am already far behind lead group, waiting to be told to catch up, but it never happens... People start HONKING their horns, but i am not in power to anything, but to obay the rules, as you so finely pointed out. Missing the green on replay, but i get a good start, and thats the end. Safety Car did not AGAIN obay the rules, it so finely should be enforcing.
After that, i might have disobayed a few things, but i never recieved ANY kind of penalty, so i must have done something right, but one thing is for sure, I OBAYED BLUE FLAGS to a point, that should be shown as an exampel, of how it should be done. Our team was one of the VERY few that din't recieve a penalty after qualifying, as we were also practising pit exit...
By this complaint, i hope to achieve that the Safety Car enforces the rules that are so finely handed out at you web site...
This is not a lash at anybody, and i hope this is understood. I am the Team Owner of Alias Racing Team, and I praise myself on being a clean and fair racer, and i HATE incidents, and my worst fear is still taking out the race-leader of a race, i have tried it, but in that case it was proven to be LAG that caused that incident. It is not the intention to hurt or sell anyone out.
To end in hopefully the funny side of this ! What would happen if the Safety Cars in real life events didn't follow the simplest rules, you would instantly see a complaint from EVERY team manger on that particular grid. So now you get one, and i hope other team managers, will back me up on this. If we have to follow rules handed out to us, we surely expect them to be enforced, not only the penalties, but the little things as well.
Yeah, was going to deal with this next. It's going to need a second review. The reason for this is that from different angles it appears to be a racing incident or direct attempt at blocking a line. Sorry to take so long but it's an awkward situation to judge.
I just had a chance to go back and review this (after the interminable FFWD wait ).
I've come to the conclusion that it was a racing incident and therefore no penalties will be assessed. It is clear from the replay that when bdshan started to turn down to the natural apex of the corner, the 09 did not have any overlap. He did indeed make up this overlap pretty quickly, but at that sort of speed and that sort of corner it's not entirely surprising that bdshan didn't see him come into frame and didn't react in time. It's certainly no less of a racing incident than the previous altercations between the 09, 06, and LOTF cars.
I would like to re-warn bdshan about the way he re-enters the track after the spin, though. He almost did serious damage to the 09 there, which certainly would have incurred a penalty.
ALSO!
I'd like to ask the EER team to NOT lay on the horn for the entire race in subsequent rounds. That was excruciatingly annoying.
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