Quote from Belain :

but only a maximum of 1 lap more where as in lapped races it can become more than just one...coz the race wont finish if noone hits the 250 laps but in a timed race it ends after 6 hours even people are in the 2nd lap for example

Yeah that's true, it's still basically the same problem though.

The chances of that happening on the last lap are far less though of course

It doesn't need to happen on the last lap, it can happen on any lap and LFS will still see the wrong car as the leader. The race doesn't end until the time expires and the leader (according to LFS) crosses the s/f line.

Look at this example:

1. Mercury are leading and get disconnected.
   
2. Mercury recover from their disconnection and regain the lead.
   
3. SK are in 2nd place according to the tracker, but are ahead according to LFS because they have not had any disconnections.
   
4. The time expires and when LFS sees SK cross the s/f line, it ends the race. Any cars behind Mercury but ahead of SK on the track, drive 1 extra lap.
   
5. If when Mercury cross the line to start their last lap the time has not yet expired, then SK and any teams behind them on track but ahead of Mercury will actually drive 1 less lap than they should do.*
   

*This means that with a time-based race it is quite possible for teams to actually drive 1 less lap than they should do according to the tracker. This isn't a problem which can occur with a distance based race.

This is less likely to cause a problem than a distance based race admittedly, but I thought it was worth making the point that there is still a potential issue. In the 24 hour race when there is quite a good chance that the race will not be ended by the leading car, there is a fairly high chance of such a problem.

In the races so far, the winner has always been one without a disco. Just as food for thought.

We had a very similar incident in the next to last IGTC round at Aston National. The leader at the end of the race had had a disconnect and was thus one lap up on the rest of the field (because the race didn't end when he crossed the line after 4 hours). Was a mess to resolve.

Quote from Hoellsen :

In the races so far, the winner has always been one without a disco. Just as food for thought.

I thought a possible disconnect or shift+p for the leader was the reason for scrapping the 1000km races, so "It probably won't happen" seems a little inconsistant considering that earlier decision.

No, it's not since the consequences of a disco in both cases are completely different. In a timed race we will have at most 1 more lap after time expired, no matter how many laps the 2nd placed car on the server has driven. In a distance race, it's a totally different story.

Quote from joshdifabio :

I thought a possible disconnect or shift+p for the leader was the reason for scrapping the 1000km races, so "It probably won't happen" seems a little inconsistant considering that earlier decision.

its also better to think about the worst case scenario before the race i mean look at this thread:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=4357

everything is so thought out so i think this is the only right decision to make it a 6hours race...u never know whats going to happen so better prepare for the worst case scenario

So what do we do in the event that people don't drive enough laps, which is possible in a timed race. This seems like the worst case to me because it can't be corrected after the race, unlike people driving too many laps which can quite easily be fixed.

I'm not trying to bitch, it's not like there is any advantage to my team in doing a 1000km race, I just think it's a problem.

how can people not drive enough laps in a _timed_ race?

Quote from Belain :

how can people not drive enough laps in a _timed_ race?

If the leader has been disconnected, LFS will see the wrong car as the leader. If the leader according to LFS crosses the finish line after the time expires to trigger the end of the race, but the genuine leader according to the tracker last crossed the line before the time expired then the car which LFS sees as the leader and any cars behind it on track, but ahead of the genuine leader, will drive 1 lap too few.

Here's a step by step:

1. Team 1 is leading the race and gets disconnected.
   
2. Team 1 are still in the lead, but because of their disconnection LFS thinks Team 2 are now leading.
   
3. It gets close to the end of the race, Team 1 crosses the S/F line 20 seconds before time expires.
   
4. Team 2 then cross the line, and time has expired. Because LFS sees Team 2 as the leader it ends the race. Since Team 1 are the real leaders and time had not expired when they crossed the line, Team 2 and all of the cars behind them on track, but ahead of Team 1, will drive 1 lap too few.
   

Which will have hardly any relevance for them since they (i) did not win the race anyways (the tracker will see the actual distance covered by the leader) and (ii) the positions between the cars aren't changed by the fact that they have driven 1 lap fewer than they should have.

Yes, there is the slight chance that a car might have passed another car in that one more lap that should have been covered, but that is simply tough luck. We do have the issue of possible discos an we cannot do anything about it. At one point we need to say: live and get on with it, and this is the point.

Quote from Hoellsen :

Which will have hardly any relevance for them since they (i) did not win the race anyways (the tracker will see the actual distance covered by the leader) and (ii) the positions between the cars aren't changed by the fact that they have driven 1 lap fewer than they should have.

Yes, there is the slight chance that a car might have passed another car in that one more lap that should have been covered, but that is simply tough luck. We do have the issue of possible discos an we cannot do anything about it. At one point we need to say: live and get on with it, and this is the point.

Ok, it kind of sucks that we can't do anything about these things. LFS really needs to be able to track enduro races ignoring discos, or allow you to add x laps to a team's results during a race. I think the second one would be seriously easy for scawen to do.

Yeah, i really cant see what the big deal is about a car having completed 1 lap more/less than another, it wont screw up the results in any shape or form, the worst it does is give misleading gaps between cars maybe? Its nothing compared to the alternative that we'd have with a distance based race or any system without the tracker for that matter.

Quote from Hoellsen :

In the races so far, the winner has always been one without a disco. Just as food for thought.

Rather ironic reply that isnt it? Someone mentions the 24hr races have a reasonably high probability that the lead car may pick up a disco over that length, and it gets brushed off (in a manner of speaking) with the fact its never happened in the series before. Yet here we are rejecting a distance based race on that very basis.

yes i know, wcs

As posted before, the consequences of it in a distance race are worse than a timed race which justifies the different handling.

Questio: dont know if it already has been asked.... and i apologise if it has...


You mention the 24 hour race of Aston, which aston will that be? Or is it the same as last season, Aston Grand Prix.

Thank you for your reply.

Brgrds

Yes, traditional venue, Aston GP

Hi...
We came here respectively representing the team "Vortec Racing Team" from Brazil, and we became very impressed with these so longer endurances (6, 12 and 24 hours, and the 1000km races). We wait any response from the organization team, we can someday do the test to entry in the event..

Msn: marcofg0@hotmail.com
Marco Aurélio Fernandes Garcia - Brazil.


I was seeing...In the Pre-eliminary table the next race will be January 19, the 24 hours of aston..We would like to join the races and give our compromise to race all the races, and its full format.
In the topic "Round 4 Aston Grand Prix" it says that the first qualification is on 20 january..I got confused

If its just writing down my team in the topic, please someone answer this question =)
The topic is : http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=662637#post662637

I was confused..If someone gives me a help , i´d apreciate.. Well, and write the Vortec Racing Team.


Atenciously,
Lelo_BR.

*Sorry for the bad english. I tried my best

the thread u linked is from the LFS GT Series which is a support series of the Masters of Endurance

The first Qualification for the MoE 24h will be THIS sunday!

Lelo_BR: please contact Scoop about this, you can also send you application to applications _at_ mastersofendurance.eu (replace _at_ with @) and it will find the right way.

thanks for all answers..they were useful =)

but..i would not like to spam the organizator Scoop..if there´s another way, like he would read my post or .. i don´t know ...
i tried the applications way, but no sucess, i get just on the official site..


Well, i´m trying to put vortec on, but i´m realizing it´s just too late..if we can´t go in this race, okay, let´s go in the next..I think i´ll message scoop

It's an email address, not a website. You've gotta send you application to email address: applications _at_ mastersofendurance.eu (replace _at_ with @)

When does the 2008/2009 season start? ( I know that the current one is still running, don't flame me for this reason )

Traditionally in the End of September.

Like in 2006 / 07 http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=12144
and 2007 / 08 http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=26956

Ohh thanks!