WARNING: THIS IS A TEST

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW TYRE PHYSICS OR THE NEW GRAPHICS SYSTEM

PLEASE TEST BEFORE YOU POST


Hello Racers,

Here is a new test patch: 0.7D8

Engine damage can now be repaired in a pit stop.
A feature to display engine health (previously available in popular add-on LFSLazy).
A long requested feature to display maximum speed for each gear in setup screen.
The Layout Square map may be useful in the SBTV Soccar and MRc E-Challenge events.
Pit lane speed limiter (fixed at 80 km/h) is available on tracks that do not have a pit lane.
An experimental feature to avoid low-res physics for (distant) remote cars in multiplayer.
A couple of bugs have been fixed.
The changes are listed below.

0.7D8 is compatible with 0.7D

- You CAN connect online with 0.7D
- You CAN play replays from 0.7D

Please back up or rename your LFS.exe from version D so you can revert to it if necessary.


Changes in 0.7D8:

FIX: OOS when repairing engine damage at pit stop in D7


Changes in 0.7D7:

Engine damage can now be repaired in pit stop
- yellow counts as minor damage (6 seconds)
- red counts as major damage (12 seconds)

Engine health now changes from yellow to red at 97%

Engine health percentage is no longer displayed for remote cars

EXPERIMENTAL option to avoid low-res (simple) physics in multiplayer
- Options... Misc... Avoid simple physics [EXPERIMENTAL]
- low res physics is normally applied to cars other than the 4 nearest
- the option approximately doubles CPU usage by physics in multiplayer
- could cause problems at turn 1 with many cars - only use on powerful PC
- use the "profiler" display to check CPU usage with this option enabled
- profiler enabled by pressing car icon then P in Misc or Graphics options


Changes in 0.7D6:

Fix for D5 gear ratios bug


Changes in 0.7D5:

Engine health display now available in F9 and F10 displays


Changes from 0.7D to 0.7D4:

Interface:

Speed at redline is displayed beside gear ratios in setup screen
A small map is now displayed in layout square if there is a layout
Arrows on non-race small map take colour of first name character

Pit speed limiter:

Speed limiter set to 80 km/h can be manually enabled if no pit lane
FIX: Driver swap enabled very high speed limiter if no pit lane

Audio:

Tone variation limited to 0.99 to prevent an engine sound bug
Switched off experimental "Prevent clipping" option by default

Misc:

Reduced glitch of multiplayer cars after TAB or fast forward replay
FIX: Crash when two events on calendar used same event image


INSTALLATION:

A FULL version of LFS 0.7D must already be installed

To install the PATCH using the SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE:

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
4) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

NOTE: You can see if the patch is correctly installed when you run
the program (LFS.exe). At the bottom of the entry screen: 0.7D8


DOWNLOAD:

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE 0.7D:
PATCH 0.7D TO 0.7D8 (SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE)
https://www.lfs.net/file_lfs.p ... e=LFS_PATCH_7D_TO_7D8.exe (1.2 MB)

Quote :

Arrows on non-race small map take colour of first name character

If possible, could this be changed to an ON/OFF toggle option?

-------------------------
That aside, I like these minor updates, specially the manual pitlane limiter one. Very useful for custom pitlanes

Quote from Ibtasim6781 :

If possible, could this be changed to an ON/OFF toggle option?

This may be clear in your mind but to me it raises questions.

1) Are you talking about an option for the server or for users?
2) What are the reason? Aesthetics or gameplay?

We already had some suggestions on the other thread. If possible I would be very happy not to add options. Because (1) this is supposed to be a quick update, (2) every option added is another thing to maintain for ever more and (3) server side options are always more complicated and often cannot be added to compatible versions. So please do be very specific about your request and elaborate on the reason for it.

Semi-related to the maximum speed for gears, I read recently about another display from LFSLazy that can apparently be very useful. An engine damage display on screen.

Further reading:
MandulAA: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2013145#post2013145
pantiainen: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2013394#post2013394

I'm not saying I'll actually add it to this test patch, but I was wondering if an engine damage % (or the opposite, engine health %) could be displayed in a small box like the CT. I'm not sure if it really needs a number or just a bar like the CT. And it leads me to another question, if engine damage should be repaired in pit stops? It seems unrealistic but it's no less realistic than full suspension and perfect bodywork repair in the pits, so why not allow engine to be repaired too. It's something that can be "better" in racing sims than real life. I'm thinking when you have a 6 hour race and you do one dodgy gearchange, so now you have a weak engine for the next 5 hours. Disappointing and maybe not so bad if you could just pay for it with a pit stop.

I was thinking a small damage % could be included in "minor repairs" and a larger % would lead to "major repairs".

Well that is just a thought. Don't think it's wasted time as it affects the current public version and the version still in development. Also seems pretty easy to do though I haven't looked in the code yet.

Seeing engine damage would be a valuable information,especially for learning drivers so they can actually see what and when leads to that damage. And regarding repairs - yea,LFS mechanics are insanely fast with repairs,so it wouldn't be that different if they were able to fix engine too,however I would suggest to have it as different option in F12 menu and also that in pit it would be a seperate repair section besides minor and major repairs.
And if we start the topic about repairs,maybe in bigger future update it would be better to slow the mechanics down regarding repairs (I assume tyrechange and refuelling are pretty much fine) to give people more "penalty" for not avoiding contacts. Also one other note - if tyres are changed,tyre pressure adjustments should not cost extra time as that's a predone work of mechanics.

Engine damage would definitely be helpful. IMO, if you do decide to repair engine damage on pitstops, then you should also give it its own flag so that it can be used in insims.

Now, I am not really a racer, so i can't say much about it racing wise. But it is a great addition. Its especially helpful to new players to LFS wondering why their car aren't moving (or moving at reduced speeds).

Perhaps show as a percentage? Engine damages usually aren't that much.

Quote from Scawen :

An engine damage display on screen.

Since we have the opportunity to see the heating of the clutch, then I'd like to see the percentage of engine damage or some sort of bar, but at the pitstop I'd like it all to be optional. I think a lot of people want to see their races realistic as possible. Where there is no way to quickly fix the engine. And some others, who not cares about realism, be glad of such an opportunity.

Quote from Scawen :

I'm thinking when you have a 6 hour race and you do one dodgy gearchange, so now you have a weak engine for the next 5 hours. Disappointing and maybe not so bad if you could just pay for it with a pit stop.

If it possible, I'd like all of these things to be separate for the race host and optional. Like repairing on pits: damage to the engine, gearbox, suspension, bodywork, etc. and you check the boxes to enable or not. Someone does not want to have the opportunity to repair the engine and gearbox. But the suspension and body can be repaired. Someone wants to include everything.

And If possible, I would separate engine and gearbox damage. I would attribute incorrect switching of gears to damage to the gearbox. Overclocking on the engine cutoff, or damage to the body in places where the engine is installed (or add a radiator object, if damaged, the engine will gradually gain damage) I would attribute it to engine damage. Because in real the radiator can sometimes be repaired in a short time, and the engine, if it means damage of engine block or someting in cylinder head cannot be repaired in a short time. This already sounds complicated to implement so I don't know if it's worth it.

Quote from Scawen :

could be displayed in a small box like the CT.

more realistic approach would be a "check engine" light e.g.:


In any case I think that value should also be included in the OutGauge then for the gauges to be able to show the damage digitally or as a aforementioned check engine light

engine damage is usefull .. yes we damage the engine during the first hour of an enduro and spent 3 hours to try finish the race ...

also, in the same spirit, what about the possibility to choose repair only "major damage" ? instead of minor +major like actually

Thanks for the feedback about engine damage. It looks like most people would like it displayed (as a number).

About the repairs, and options for servers to allow it, or for users to select whether it should be done or not in pits, InSim output etc. that is massively beyond the scope of this patch. I've got far too much work to do and can't get into things that take many hours to do, even if they are good thoughts you are having.

My suggestion was that, maybe, (and I haven't even checked the code yet) a small amount of damage could result in the already existing "minor damage" time delay and a larger amount of damage could result in the already existing "major damage" time delay.

There's already a damage repair option and that would apply to engine and suspension all with the same option.

That's all I can offer at this time, no interface, no options, just an opportunity for engine damage to be fixed by the super fast mechanics while the other super fast mechanics might be working on the suspension and doing a incredible job fixing the bodywork without a trace.

Quote from Scawen :

Thanks for the feedback about engine damage. It looks like most people would like it displayed (as a number).

About the repairs, and options for servers to allow it, or for users to select whether it should be done or not in pits, InSim output etc. that is massively beyond the scope of this patch. I've got far too much work to do and can't get into things that take many hours to do, even if they are good thoughts you are having.

My suggestion was that, maybe, (and I haven't even checked the code yet) a small amount of damage could result in the already existing "minor damage" time delay and a larger amount of damage could result in the already existing "major damage" time delay.

There's already a damage repair option and that would apply to engine and suspension all with the same option.

That's all I can offer at this time, no interface, no options, just an opportunity for engine damage to be fixed by the super fast mechanics while the other super fast mechanics might be working on the suspension and doing a incredible job fixing the bodywork without a trace.

Sure, i think it could be a solution for time being, then later after big update it should just be in list things to do, as there are other things as well that could be changed with pitstops, not just engine changes that we suģgested, thanks.

Quote from Scawen :

Thanks for the feedback about engine damage. It looks like most people would like it displayed (as a number).

I can confirm that the engine damage was the most requested feature in Detect&Monitor (implemented by reading in memory as no other way).
A gauge like CT would be nice (+ a light when you perform a damaging action as bonus) (and of course from my point of view, an access to this info via insim or outgauge)

Quote from Scawen :

This may be clear in your mind but to me it raises questions.

1) Are you talking about an option for the server or for users?
2) What are the reason? Aesthetics or gameplay?

We already had some suggestions on the other thread. If possible I would be very happy not to add options. Because (1) this is supposed to be a quick update, (2) every option added is another thing to maintain for ever more and (3) server side options are always more complicated and often cannot be added to compatible versions. So please do be very specific about your request and elaborate on the reason for it.

Should have been more specific. Apologies

An option for users to click on. The reason mainly apart from aesthetics/gameplay-wise is that its not very useful outside those specific events (Football, Derby, etc etc) so it looks more of an option to use when in those events. At least thats how I see it

In the end you have the final call whether to do it or not so its understandable you wouldn't want to spend more time on it if possible/can be avoided

I really like the bar for clutch heat, I don't care the exact temperature, I just need to know if I need to be careful. I think engine damage is different as it isn't something that goes away, it think would be nice to make it consistent with clutch heat in the UI. Maybe if both were bars but engine damage could have the number over the bar, or alongside?

About an option to use or not use the name coloured arrows on servers without lap timing:

Quote from Ibtasim6781 :

An option for users to click on. The reason mainly apart from aesthetics/gameplay-wise is that its not very useful outside those specific events (Football, Derby, etc etc) so it looks more of an option to use when in those events. At least thats how I see it

I wonder where it will be seen, other than football? Which servers don't use lap timing?

Cruise servers is one example (though I'm struggling to think of others). Degats pointed out a possible issue, but we haven't heard from anyone if they actually found it a problem or a benefit in reality.

Quote from Degats :

Not sure how good it would be for chases on cruise servers, as it will make it even easier for police to follow where a car is going on the map. Given the highly competitive nature, it would change the balance a bit.

Would be interesting to hear if people like it in cruise servers.

Quote from superlame :

Maybe a good idea is to have the colorful arrow as an option inside Misc?
For the people that think it is too colorful for them, they can switch it back to the default (Pre 0.7D3)
Options - Misc - Enable colorful arrow map?

As you say: Maybe. I hope to hear from people what they actually feel about it.

At the moment we are just talking about solutions to theoretical problems that may exist.

I see two problems with acting too fast:

1) We have not received any feedback at all about what people think about it on servers (if they actually like it or not).
2) The question of server option vs user option. Both seem as valid as each other but it's probably not a good idea to implement both, as they can conflict. Before anyone tells me, yes I know we could have server option "ON / OFF / FREE CHOICE" to avoid actual conflict between two options (or server option "ALLOW COLOURFUL ARROWS IF USER WANTS") but interaction between server option and user options is more complicated than I really want for this simple fun feature.

My job is not to dictate the answer but to assess feedback from people who are actually using it, compare this with suggestions and see what comes up.

Obviously as mentioned I like the easy solution of "no option" (as now) but still need to hear feedback from people using it. Maybe less useful at this point is thinking of options for other people whose opinions we have not yet heard and may or may not like it.

Quote from Flame CZE :

This thread is not a place for general LFS suggestions - keep it test patch related only please.

Sorry for that!

Quote from Scawen :

.
1) We have not received any feedback at all about what people think about it on servers (if they actually like it or not).

For us at TC CityDriving, I think the best option would be if I can control the colour via our host's Insim (sure, if the client option allows it). Provided its technically possible.

I could then think of numerous ways to make use of it: e.g.

- Indicating the player's role (like COP/TOW/MED, same team, same mission, friends (or foes )
- Replicating the original behaviour for Insim controlled races (on cruise servers).
- Indicating the teams in events (e.g. football)


Little edit: If its not possible to have player per player colours, then I'd rather have a option to turn the colours off (as it was before). For a very simple reason: I only need the arrows to see if there are cars in my vicinity or closing up quickly, but it takes too long now to even find my own arrow in that view.

I prefer controlling the player colour by insim.

Indicating teams.
Indicating carclasses.
Ranking.

A another example.
For our Timeattack system with multistage layouts, it could be handy to see which driver is driving on which stage.

I do not know how the insimpacket will look like but for LFSLapper i could create a simple function like:

So for my point of view, i see more benefits to control the player colour by insim.

damn interface in setting become brilliant,thanks Lfs team for update!very useful

I've made this appear beside the CT indicator, just an early test so far.

Naturally it comes out as a "Health" value that starts at 100% and goes down from there (if you downshift too early -> over rev). No change in the physics, this is only a display.

One bad shift affects it quite a lot, so I think one decimal place is enough. Maybe the straight percentage with no decimal place would be OK?

Opinions welcome, maybe I'll release a minor update with this tomorrow morning so you can have a go.

I was thinking the engine symbol could start grey then go yellow then red with more damage. Possibly if pit engine repair is implemented, the colours could line up with "minor damage" and "major damage".

Quote from Scawen :

Naturally it comes out as a "Health" value that starts at 100% and goes down from there

I'm wondering what does this percentage say? If I damage the engine to 90%,do I have 90% of power at each revs range?

Quote from Scawen :

I was thinking the engine symbol could start grey then go yellow then red with more damage.

That sounds like a good idea.

Quote from Scawen :

I've made this appear beside the CT indicator, just an early test so far.

Naturally it comes out as a "Health" value that starts at 100% and goes down from there (if you downshift too early -> over rev). No change in the physics, this is only a display.

One bad shift affects it quite a lot, so I think one decimal place is enough. Maybe the straight percentage with no decimal place would be OK?

In my opinion it already looks good enough, but not quite universal, for the clutch we have a filling bar, and for the engine percentages. Although, it's easy to get used to it.

Quote from Scawen :

I was thinking the engine symbol could start grey then go yellow then red with more damage. Possibly if pit engine repair is implemented, the colours could line up with "minor damage" and "major damage".

I think it would be better, if it is not difficult. I don't know what it's worth on time perspective. I, like many others palyers are interested in that as soon as possible came out update with graphics and physics so if you can save time on this patch to go to a more expected update, I would choose this.

Quote from Scawen :

I've made this appear beside the CT indicator, just an early test so far.

Naturally it comes out as a "Health" value that starts at 100% and goes down from there (if you downshift too early -> over rev). No change in the physics, this is only a display.

I like the icon and percentage display - I think it's a better choice than the textual "CT" for clutch temperature which I'm not sure some new people know the meaning of.

Quote from Scawen :

One bad shift affects it quite a lot, so I think one decimal place is enough. Maybe the straight percentage with no decimal place would be OK?

I don't know if a decimal place is needed - it depends how much an engine damage smaller than 1 % affects the car's performance. It definitely needs some testing.

Quote from Scawen :

I've made this appear beside the CT indicator, just an early test so far.

Naturally it comes out as a "Health" value that starts at 100% and goes down from there (if you downshift too early -> over rev). No change in the physics, this is only a display.

I do like that a lot, although wouldn't engine damage be more suitable to display the actual damage?
So it would display something like 1.5%. But i suppose it doesn't matter too much.

Quote from kristofferandersen :

I do like that a lot, although wouldn't engine damage be more suitable to display the actual damage?
So it would display something like 1.5%. But i suppose it doesn't matter too much.

the way it appears now, it is a "engine health" display, so it shows the engine health
still, i think that might would be interesting to put an option to change that display from helath to damage, like we have different options in the accelerometer indicator