I've noticed an increasingly worrying trend on the CTRA servers. Something I would call Demo mentality behaviour. That being the increasing habit of people voting to restart or end race whilst others are still racing, just because they crashed out or don't like the circuit. It's begining to get really annoying, the worst thing is even the better drivers are starting to do it. They aren't in the lead so they vote restart. I think this is completely unacceptable behaviour and it's something I thought I'd escaped from by driving on the CTRA servers, and to be honest it has been fine up until recently.

I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed specifically in the rules. I for one don't want to race on servers where everyone votes to restart just because half the field gets caught up in a crash. That's just tough IMO, if CTRA wants to position itself as a real racing simulator server then it needs to stamp out this behaviour IMO. If you crash out in a real race or get involved in a crash, (even if it's not your fault), you don't have the option to restart or choose another track you just have to deal with it as part of racing.

Now you've brought it up i realise that's one really good thing about iRacing. No restarts.

If restarts were banned on CTRA people would think a bit more before piling into T1 without a care in the world.

I thought restarts were disabled during the race on CTRA. Or at least they used to be.

Exactly like gezmoor said, If it was a real race, once the person is out or crashed they don't repair everyones car instantly and put them back on the racing line.

Without restarts it promotes drivers to be more careful and plan out their race, with restarts the game feels so much less like a simulator.

Quote from JohnnyFX :

I thought restarts were disabled during the race on CTRA. Or at least they used to be.

AFAIK, it isn't possible to disable restarts during the race, only for a certain time after the start and a certain time after the finish.

I agree with this one,
i wouldnt mind if the hole restart system would be banned
Maybe after the race is finished, that restart system would be back again..
or just when the track i changing, and you wanna still play one/couple
of more times the old track. Hope you understand what i meaning..

I wouldnt hold out on getting your request for a few reasons

I tried to implement no vote restarting before back in the days it was the STCC servers, but came across a few logistical issues with unusual scenarios and had to disable it, so implementation is not that straight forward, and CTRA have said no major developments to the X-System until X2.

Secondly Sam is a big believer in the democratic process. So am I, I just think that democracy needs rules to handle it and that X-System could do a better job here.

Quote from gezmoor :

That being the increasing habit of people voting to restart or end race whilst others are still racing, just because they crashed out or don't like the circuit.

I think restarting during an ongoing race is reportable. As for ending race, this topic has popped up with some frequency lately.

Just as a reminder, guys..

Quote :

Blue Flags

• Mid-Race Joining (Waved Blue): Drivers who have joined the race after the race has begun, or who have rejoined the race after pitting/spectating, are allowed on the track solely by the grace of the race marshals. They must not impact the progress of the current race or its competitors in any way. This includes, but is not limited to:
  • [..]
    
  • Voting to restart an ongoing race.
    

I realise that it doesn't cover every scenario in minute detail, but with the combination of the restart restriction in the early part of the race to prevent T1 restarts and the auto-spectate timer for non-moving vehicles, pretty well all inappropriate restart scenarios are covered either mechanically or in the rules.

Quote from SamH :

I realise that it doesn't cover every scenario in minute detail, but with the combination of the restart restriction in the early part of the race to prevent T1 restarts and the auto-spectate timer for non-moving vehicles, pretty well all inappropriate restart scenarios are covered either mechanically or in the rules.

I'm afraid I have to disagree. I also witnessed what gezmoor describes, on Race1 on Friday night/early Saturday morning.

Although I was near the front of the pack, after the first lap many people started voting to restart. This carried on for a lap or two with always just too few to pass the vote. Then they started typing "restart" or "SHIFT + R!" into their chat boxes. I was aware the field had become quite strung out, although I hadn't noticed any single pile-up. Eventually the vote was passed and the race was restarted for no obvious reason other than my suspicion that a few people were driving too carelessly on the first lap and as a result were at the back of the field instead of their usual position towards the front.

It's a crash-n-restart mentality that generic public servers are susceptible to, and that CTRA was a refuge from by providing structure and control to the races. If the mentality is starting to appear on CTRA now, it needs to be stamped out immediately imho before it gains traction as "expected behaviour".

Rules about mid-race joining or immobile cars on their roof do work for their relevant scenarios, but don't cover this situation at all.

The only other time I've regularly seen mass voting is when a rallycross track gets selected. Everytime I've been on a server that changes to rallyx, either nearly everyone leaves, or everyone votes to end. And for good reason - I don't think there's that many who want 28 laps of a Fern Bay rallyx circuit on Race1 which quickly resembles a destruction derby. In fact the rallyx servers seem so unpopular that I'm struggling to understand why they're kept in the circuit rotation list.

I've just been through the config files and checked. Ouch. The restart delay command was absent from the UF-BR config file. It's now there, set at 4 minutes, and the server has been relaunched.

Quote from The Moose :

If restarts were banned on CTRA people would think a bit more before piling into T1 without a care in the world.

since when do ppl pile into t1 with wreckless abandon? LOL

Quote from SamH :

I've just been through the config files and checked. Ouch. The restart delay command was absent from the UF-BR config file. It's now there, set at 4 minutes, and the server has been relaunched.

Thanks for looking in to it. Hopefully that will help improve the situation.

I have given it a thought on how to deal with the "abusive restarts voters" and have come up with an idea that may work.

I do not know the details of the voting system, e.g. if a vote is only valid for a certain period of time; hence I assume that a vote is valid until the end of a race.

If a racer votes for a restart it must be because the racer do no longer want to participate in the running race. Therefore if a racer votes for a restart and enough racers have not voted for a restart within some period of time, the voter should be sent to spectate, allowing the rest of the racers to finish their race.

/Morten

Quote from mobu :

I have given it a thought on how to deal with the "abusive restarts voters" and have come up with an idea that may work.

I do not know the details of the voting system, e.g. if a vote is only valid for a certain period of time; hence I assume that a vote is valid until the end of a race.

If a racer votes for a restart it must be because the racer do no longer want to participate in the running race. Therefore if a racer votes for a restart and enough racers have not voted for a restart within some period of time, the voter should be sent to spectate, allowing the rest of the racers to finish their race.

/Morten

Bad idea. Although a driver may vote to restart the race, he shouldn't be forced to spectate if not enough other people do the same. His finished races ratio would be affected by this, through no fault of his own.

What about a "two restarts per driver per hour" limit?
Would this be possible?

how about this one?
eliminate the restart/ end race vote altogether.
deal with the hand you're dealt.
you crash, oh well. tough luck.
you dont like a track? either run it anyway and get better at it, or choose race2, or 3, or ss1.
the whole point is to be a better racer. and better racers can adapt to different cars and tracks.
anyone can run fast laps over and over on the same track, but the goal is to be able to race, side by side, anywhere in anything.

or, just get used to the fact that not everyone can be pleased at once, and leave it the way it is. seems for the most part to have been working for a while now.....

Problem is, currently LFS does not offer the option to turn off restart votes altogether. That's why people are trying to suggest a workaround

Quote :

z-ro 8
how about this one?
eliminate the restart/ end race vote altogether.
deal with the hand you're dealt.
you crash, oh well. tough luck.
you dont like a track? either run it anyway and get better at it, or choose race2, or 3, or ss1.
the whole point is to be a better racer. and better racers can adapt to different cars and tracks.
anyone can run fast laps over and over on the same track, but the goal is to be able to race, side by side, anywhere in anything.

+1 Great ideas I totally agree

It wouldn't take long for people to learn different skills. ie: staying on track for the whole race

Quote from Toddshooter :

+1 Great ideas I totally agree

+ another 1.

Quote from The Moose :

+ another 1.

+1

Could not agree more.

Quote from Joris :

+1

Could not agree more.

I agree too! +1

Today on SS1 at AS3R i was racing with 4 or 5 other people and 2 wanted to change. Some of us were enjoying the combo but on lap 4 of 4 they got there wish and 2 voted to end. i thought it sucked but.. ok hey majority vote... Then it changed to WE1R and what do ya know - both guys left what a bummer! lol it getting contagious!!!

Quote from z-ro 8 :

how about this one?
eliminate the restart/ end race vote altogether.
deal with the hand you're dealt.
you crash, oh well. tough luck.
you dont like a track? either run it anyway and get better at it, or choose race2, or 3, or ss1.
the whole point is to be a better racer. and better racers can adapt to different cars and tracks.
anyone can run fast laps over and over on the same track, but the goal is to be able to race, side by side, anywhere in anything.

or, just get used to the fact that not everyone can be pleased at once, and leave it the way it is. seems for the most part to have been working for a while now.....

yep +1

I like the sound of this, and it could even stop the inevitable votes to End Race every time Race 1 loads a RallyX track.

z-ro 8 I couldn't agree more with you, I used to hate RallyX but once you've tried it a bit you realise its actually quite fun and a completely different skill.

In theory I'd agree with disabling restart, though what happens if somehow everybody crashes out? Like a big lag that crashes the whole field and the race is genuinely ruined. Do you then force someone to drive the X laps alone or in a completely drawn out / cluttered field just so the race restarts at some point?

Can't you just up the vote requirement to 100% of the on-track racers so that there is at least some technical way out of a hypothetical FUBAR situation?