The online racing simulator
Let's get real, there won't be S3
(849 posts, started )
Quote from Matrixi :Updated english text file isn't included in Z13.

I took a look at the language files myself, and all the Z13 language files have that S3 line. Of course this doesn't mean anything yet, as translation files have lots of un-used lines, but it might give a tiny fraction of hope.

English text files are updated by LFS.exe automatically (english is undeletable language)
Yeah, just noticed that. I only went through the .txt files which the patch extracted.
Quote from ajp71 :I think the chance of S2 being released as the Devs have said they wanted it in the past is slim. LFS is in a strange state where a majority of established players have lost interest in it, but still remain loyal herald it as the best sim out there and remain active on the forum. The quality of racing online has reached rock bottom, mostly because it has evolved into the typical online game where the majority of players turnover every few months and established etiquette becomes forgotten about.

LFS is really quite obsolete now and given the rate of progress (assuming we are actually being told about it) I can't see how LFS can re-invent itself to keep up with iRacing and ISIs next installment. I don't think LFS has had very much effort put into it recently, and certainly don't believe three people have been working on it full time, its their business in the end of the day and there's no reason why we should expect them to keep producing LFS forever.

Mm pretty well said Alex.
Quote from geeman1 :It does. All language files have those two lines...

Yep, just looked back and I guess I missed it somehow.
yay free updates 'till 2027
Quote from student :So, Scawen has said somewhere that S3 development time will be twice as long as S2. S1 was released in 2003. S2 will be released in about 2-3 years. That makes it 8 years to develop S2.

That means S3 will be released in 2027. If LFS sells, then they can continue developing LFS. But will there be enough sales for the next 20 years?

Maybe there will be S3 some day, but it's so long time, you won't care about it anyway.

Well thats a pretty simple equation you've got there. Unfortunately for you, not everything can be calculated with mathematics, especially not at the level of primary school.

Seriously, this makes absolutely no sense at all, let alone the fact that you are not in the position to consider everything that was, is and will be needed in order to create such a game.

Personally, i do hope that the devs wont lose interest soon and continue doing what they where doing for the past "couple of years", which was a great job really. Of course they could have worked faster and release more content and such. But then again, i guess real life would have become a myth for them, or worse...
All I know is that I'm going to be around for a long time, I still play LFS online whenever I have time, and I still enjoy it.

I've been with LFS since before I had a forum account, I found it way back when I had a P3 600mhz. I played the demo and found the physics absolutely amazing then, and its improved alot since then.

People worry about things like graphics and shaders, I look at it as an amazing accomplishment for three people. If I could do something like this with my team (also three people) in the same amount of time I would be a very happy person.
Quote from hotmail :Lfs is still the Most realistic Race/Drift/Cruise(what ever you want!)Sim out there.

I wouldn't say that. Even M3 Challenge is more realistic. Sliding/drifting in LFS is much too easy. Cars just slide unrealistically. In real life, dry tarmac doesn't let you float with your car sideways even if you don't apply throttle. Look at the RA(it's not the only one), you don't even have to push throttle, it just drives on ice. IIIICCCEEE!

LFS has the very best simulation potential, and it would really be the best racing sim IF the tyre grip stuff(feeling of driving on ice, hot tires no-grip issue)would be fixed. I mean if you swing your driving wheel on a straight even a bit then even XF GTI starts sliding and going out of control.

That's why I don't also want rain in LFS, we already are driving in rain(if not on ice), what would happen if theroad cars would loose in more grip No other racing sim handles like LFS because of the tyre grip issue(Forza, GT5, GT legends, rFactor, M3 Challenge)

It's a bit off-topic tho, but this major tire grip issue really is the only major problem of LFS
Yeah it is the most major problem of LFS but that garbage you mentioned still doesn't hold a candle to LFS in overall tire physics. For tire physics: iRacing > LFS > other crap. (Except maybe Netkar Pro I suppose, but if you want to talk about development time... lol)
Quote from student :So, Scawen has said somewhere that S3 development time will be twice as long as S2. S1 was released in 2003. S2 will be released in about 2-3 years. That makes it 8 years to develop S2.

That means S3 will be released in 2027. If LFS sells, then they can continue developing LFS. But will there be enough sales for the next 20 years?

Maybe there will be S3 some day, but it's so long time, you won't care about it anyway.

Had a few drinks tonight eh??
Quote from hotmail :If you ask me they can

look at it in this may,
If you ask me, Lfs is still the Most realistic Race/Drift/Cruise(what ever you want!)Sim out there.

LFS is allready the last years the best sim out there.
So maybe the develement looks slow, but its still better when what the others are doing. otherwise that games would be better then lfs, and we wont play it anymore.

So anyhow , if the keep on going as they did the last years then they will be absolute fine if you ask me...

(!! if you dont agree with me Do Not Quote or Kill Me Please !!)

I'd just like to add to this.
Makes no difference is it called S2 or S3 or S4. Would it really make you happy to have S2 done like a year ago (with old physics, cockpits, old BL, SO etc) and to be on S3 now with these improvements? Totally makes no difference.
All LFS would need is few more tracks, because it's hard to make a good league with just 6 tracks (and pls don't talk to me about layouts now).
Quote from N I K I :I'd just like to add to this.
Makes no difference is it called S2 or S3 or S4. Would it really make you happy to have S2 done like a year ago (with old physics, cockpits, old BL, SO etc) and to be on S3 now with these improvements? Totally makes no difference.

+1

Quote :All LFS would need is few more tracks, because it's hard to make a good league with just 6 tracks (and pls don't talk to me about layouts now).

Yeap, that would be a good start, especially if those tracks were real ones. Besides spending years of practising to master absolutely useless tracks, being TOTALLY disconnected from ALL other sim AND RL motorsports enthusiasts is something worth mentioning as a major con when we talk about "simulators", imho (you talk to the world about... blackwoods, westhills & fernbays and the world looks back at you like you are an alien... and you pretty much are).

Quote from hotmail :
If you ask me, Lfs is still the Most realistic Race/Drift/Cruise(what ever you want!)Sim out there.

Physics & ffb-wise LFS is pretty much established by now, although there's always room for improvement. Likewise, LFS's online play along with LFSW & insim technology are more than established as the best organized all around online service ever existed on any sim so far.

The thing is, those LFS pros compared to the competition exist for so long that they gradually lose their advanatage, since the competition closes the gap in much faster rates than before.

Besides closing the gap, the competition also offers way more realistic solutions to almost every other simulated area compared to LFS (graphics, sounds, weather, day/night transitions, real tracks, real cars, variable racing grip... expand the list as you wish).

Personally I've lost hope that LFS will ever reach again the advantage it had over the competition when I fisrt discovered it (that is almost 4 years ago). It's not only the slow development pace, but it's also the dev's updating priorities, as they're shown in every released patch.
It seems that 'student' is alter ego of ajp's71 or some sort of troll which spend too much time on 4chan beeing high/drunk.

Ignore the smart-ass as he is fooling our minds in b4 very good incompatible patch.
Quote from N I K I :I'd just like to add to this.
Makes no difference is it called S2 or S3 or S4. Would it really make you happy to have S2 done like a year ago (with old physics, cockpits, old BL, SO etc) and to be on S3 now with these improvements? Totally makes no difference.
All LFS would need is few more tracks, because it's hard to make a good league with just 6 tracks (and pls don't talk to me about layouts now).

that was also the bottom line of my post. only didnt make it clear
Quote from student :See? People active at the forums are relatively new. Nearly everyone who plays LFS regged about 4-5 years ago. Then people move on.

That means, you people who play LFS now, will move on other things when S3 comes out. So for you, there won't be S3.

Sir in December I'm here for 6 years, and I'm TOTALLY not bored, I didn't move over either.

Please stop flaming the devs with this kinda crap, and wait for the beautiful things that are coming and that are might coming this year.

Like VW Scirocco, updated intriours for multiple cars, break-off damage, etc., etc.
Quote from rockclan :Sir in December I'm here for 6 years, and I'm TOTALLY not bored, I didn't move over either.

Please stop flaming the devs with this kinda crap, and wait for the beautiful things that are coming and that are might coming this year.

Like VW Scirocco, updated intriours for multiple cars, break-off damage, etc., etc.

VW Scirocco might come out this year, even though it was expected last year. But break-off damage? Maybe in 5 years.

Luckily for LFS, there is still no alternative for LFS, being affordable and realistic SIM. But someone big, such as EA might just put 50 millions into developing a realistic sim.
#67 - SamH
Quote from student :VW Scirocco might come out this year, even though it was expected last year. But break-off damage? Maybe in 5 years.

Oh right, I didn't know that the timetable was made public. 5 years? I remember Scawen said he wanted to include that in S2, but obviously you have newer information than that. 5 years? Damn.
Quote from student :Luckily for LFS, there is still no alternative for LFS, being affordable and realistic SIM. But someone big, such as EA might just put 50 millions into developing a realistic sim.

Let me know when EA release that, please. I just hope they do a better job of finishing their own product than they did with ALL their other titles.
Quote from student :VW Scirocco might come out this year, even though it was expected last year. But break-off damage? Maybe in 5 years.

Luckily for LFS, there is still no alternative for LFS, being affordable and realistic SIM. But someone big, such as EA might just put 50 millions into developing a realistic sim.

Welcome in your own fantasy world....

Real Real Bad m8 Real Bad. And this is why we have all the rumors around.
To be honest i dont care if there wont be S3.... As long as they keep working on the game, and keep putting in the new stuff under S2 i dont see the problem..... That "3" wont change anything....
Quote from SamH :Oh right, I didn't know that the timetable was made public. 5 years? I remember Scawen said he wanted to include that in S2, but obviously you have newer information than that. 5 years? Damn.

Let me know when EA release that, please. I just hope they do a better job of finishing their own product than they did with ALL their other titles.

It's only me, or someone else can smell a lot of irony? It's nice


On topic (sort of):
Why can't you whiners just WAIT, without being so pessimistic?
I'm sure, ONE DAY we will have our Scirocco, our S3, our new cars and tracks and whatever the devs will want us to have. Until then, we'll just enjoy what we've got.
</thread>
Are you waiting for S3 to pay your license? what's the rush?

Like somebody said before, nobody cares if it's called S2 0.7L alpha or S3. LFS is still alive and getting better with time, that's what matters.
Quote from bmwracer67 :I wouldn't say that. Even M3 Challenge is more realistic. Sliding/drifting in LFS is much too easy. Cars just slide unrealistically. In real life, dry tarmac doesn't let you float with your car sideways even if you don't apply throttle. Look at the RA(it's not the only one), you don't even have to push throttle, it just drives on ice. IIIICCCEEE!

/facepalm

LFS's tyre model is the best bit about it. Real tyres do produce peak grip at reasonable slip angles (approx. 10° for modern radial road tyres, 5° for radial slicks and above 12° for old cross ply racing tyres) breakaway after the peak slip angles is always gradual, as it is in LFS. Most sims believe in this total nonsense about rubber and asphalt becoming frictionless as soon as the tyre passes a certain slip angle, and sometimes the peak slip angle is botched stupidly high to try and make the car slide recoverably, this is obviously wrong as it means that the in order to drive the car quickly it has to maintain lurid angles to the track (I've seen ISI mods with peak grip occuring at 25° to allow the car to drift). Strangely if you put sensible figures into the ISI engine it produces a car that is similar to LFS and real life behaviour...

The overall grip level is completely irrelevant to what the car feels like to drive, and is nearly always too high in all sims, LFS is much better than most in this regard but I think the road tyres especially have too much grip still. In reality it all feels much faster and you get much better feel. My guess is you haven't been fast in a lightweight rear wheel drive car on road tyres without downforce, or better still been driven fast in such a car. Having driven such a car for the first time then immediately been passengered by someone experienced and fast in such a car the difference is incredible, and also in a few laps teaches you more than you could learn in a day of just driving round on your own, a rear wheel drive car should be driven on the throttle and the tyres should always be sliding, if they're not there's a lot of extra grip you're not using.

Quote from pasibrzuch :It seems that 'student' is alter ego of ajp's71 or some sort of troll which spend too much time on 4chan beeing high/drunk.

I can assure you 'student' is nothing to do with me.

Quote from student :
Luckily for LFS, there is still no alternative for LFS, being affordable and realistic SIM. But someone big, such as EA might just put 50 millions into developing a realistic sim.

Presumably LFS isn't providing sufficent income for the Devs to live on, hence the slow development, so what's the chance of a large team who will want more pay and be less motivated than the Devs seeing any financial sense in developing for such a niche market. GPL and RBR are about the only uncomprimising sims to have been released by big companies in the mainstream distribution methods, and neither were huge financial successes despite gaining legendary status in the sim community.
I'm trying to stay somewhat positive when it comes to the development of LFS, but honestly, if Scawen can take a 5 month hiatus to "move a house and fix things" and not develop LFS, then LFS is not their priority. I have a one month summer vacation and if needed can take one day of leave to move a house...

But I guess the above reason is one of why the team has chosen to develop LFS on their own schedule, not what people expect them to do. I was hoping the long silence would mean a bigger update being a final S2 and announcing imminent S3 alpha/beta release with Eric having produced new tracks and cars. Seems not to be so...
Well S1 was released 2003. S2 is in production, but the very fact that SCAVIER still works on it gives credit to them. There aren't a lot of products that once released are worked on for such a long time. I think the guys deserve our respect cause they've not always had the best critics even from the comunity. So common trust them in their plans.
Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :Yeah it is the most major problem of LFS but that garbage you mentioned still doesn't hold a candle to LFS in overall tire physics. For tire physics: iRacing > LFS > other crap. (Except maybe Netkar Pro I suppose, but if you want to talk about development time... lol)

the tire physics are great in its complexity, yes COMPLEX is the word but not accurately. It is much more complex than in other games, but thanks to some bugs or shortages it actually makes car handling feel LESS realistic than the one of some games with more primitive tire models.

The simple fact that real cars aren't swinging, sliding this much as in LFS speaks for itself. I mean even FWD cars can easily POWERSLIDE out of corners in LFS. In real life most FWD cars are struggling with heaps of UNDERSTEER, but in LFS you can get understeer only when you deliberately make an understeer setup. In LFS almost all road cars except UF are very oversteer. Its also very easy to keep drifting(even 7 years olds can drift like pro in LFS), which is not so easy in real life. That's the point where LFS physics need a bit of tweaking.

Still, I have to admit this oversteer and very sliding tire physics is fun to drive :P

Let's get real, there won't be S3
(849 posts, started )
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