Yes, because it's not free means it must be terrible...
You get what you pay for...
Physics are constantly updated (much like LFS). Racing physics are great. Crash physics need work, yes, but that's less important overall... damage to suspension is spot on...
And for the cars looking cheap... I don't follow you on that one.. Laser scanned accurate to the mm ... if nothing else they are probably the most closely modeled (visually) of any sim/game out...
I do have quite a bit of knowledge with FFB... I've developed for it in DirectX on windows and In the terribly neutered XNA framework for the 360.
Don't know what wheel you're using, but the G25 doesn't dampen around center at all by default. If it did, you wouldn't be able to feel the minute details at the tracks the way you can.
And don't give me the "its supposed to be there" crap. Thats like saying that AOL is supposed to be there when you buy a new PC because it's bundled. If you need button reassignment, the profiler works well, but I can tell the difference in effect with it on and off... its "mushy" with it on. Not to mention that it's a buggy peice of garbage if you're in vista. Until the latest version, it liked causing blue screens for no apparent reason.
Top it off with the fact that its a resource hog (after getting out of a game and checking, it was using 80MB of ram), and it was built as an all-around tool (for joysticks AND wheels, both have different desirable properties) and it doesn't work well. If you prefer it on for some reason, have at it, but you shouldn't fault a company for developing for a baseline. Raw data to the device vs relying on a middleman is a better scenario.
The reason people tell everyone to turn it off is the feel around center. With it on in its default settings, you can't feel the small details in the track nearly as well as if you just turn it off...
Don't know what wheel you're using, but the G25 doesn't dampen around center at all by default. If it did, you wouldn't be able to feel the minute details at the tracks the way you can.
And don't give me the "its supposed to be there" crap. Thats like saying that AOL is supposed to be there when you buy a new PC because it's bundled. If you need button reassignment, the profiler works well, but I can tell the difference in effect with it on and off... its "mushy" with it on. Not to mention that it's a buggy peice of garbage if you're in vista. Until the latest version, it liked causing blue screens for no apparent reason.
Top it off with the fact that its a resource hog (after getting out of a game and checking, it was using 80MB of ram), and it was built as an all-around tool (for joysticks AND wheels, both have different desirable properties) and it doesn't work well. If you prefer it on for some reason, have at it, but you shouldn't fault a company for developing for a baseline. Raw data to the device vs relying on a middleman is a better scenario.
The reason people tell everyone to turn it off is the feel around center. With it on in its default settings, you can't feel the small details in the track nearly as well as if you just turn it off...
All of the tracks are like that... For good reason.
At plenty of tracks, or in sections of many tracks the trees provide the reference points (At laguna seca, for example, alot of people IRL and in game use the trees that you see in front of you as you crest the corkscrew as the guide of when to stop turning and get back on the power, or in the boot section of the 'Glen the trees are good references of when to get back on the throttle out of the corners...)
Jibber, replay saving it not implemented yet. It was for a bit in the beta, but they weren't happy with the results so they pulled it out untill they got it right... better to not have it than to have a poor implementation of it.
It's looking like next update, which will be out at the end of the current 12 week season (they don't release major updates in-season, as to not effect season points/etc) will have it, although they are still sketchy on commiting to anything.
It's looking like next update, which will be out at the end of the current 12 week season (they don't release major updates in-season, as to not effect season points/etc) will have it, although they are still sketchy on commiting to anything.
Imagine that! A render that takes minutes to render looks better than something that has to render at least 30 times a second!!! Amazing!
Tiny screen shots don't do justice...
Try something like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H33RUflkvVU&fmt=22
edit: I never remove my posts... but damnit if you didn't make me be a smartass... i was trying to avoid that... :/
Last edited by rjm1982, .
It does. Again, it's value:investment
Laser Scanned tracks and Vehicles that the team spends weeks with measuring and weighing and scanning... stuff costs money. Not that it's entirely revelvant, but flight sim guys will spend $100 on a jet developed by people who haven't had real access to the actual thing... its all about perceived value.
For me, im 26, make good money have have very small amount of bills... the amount that it takes to play and have all of the content over the time that I've played it falls within my budgeted "play money" ... but I know that doesn't apply to everyone, and I can see the reasoning for avoiding it.
That said... the first time you put laps at daytona you will know why it costs what it costs
(ok, i let a little fanboy leak out that time... sue me )It's not about being "hardcore" at all. It appeals to them as well, but it's more about how much value you put in your racing experience.
I assign a lot of value to the experience I get racing online, so for me the price isn't a deterent. It's all about value (or should I say "worth", since it's a fluid value that varies from person to person) vs investment. To me, the value is much higher than the investment. Thats how most people see it as well that are in the service. Very few are "hardcore" simmers. I will say though, that the system does create a more "mature" environment, but that has little to do with age and more to do with a beautiful coincidence I think.
As far as the forums. The forums are closed to public because everyone is given their real name... and they've said that is one of the reasons for the privacy of the forums.
As far as going around defending themselves, it's not neccessary. Apple, Microsoft, Chevy, Ford... etc don't go around trying to correct internet forums... and they get plenty of ill-will and mis-information spread about them... it's just not "professional" to get in pissing matches in public forums...
I assign a lot of value to the experience I get racing online, so for me the price isn't a deterent. It's all about value (or should I say "worth", since it's a fluid value that varies from person to person) vs investment. To me, the value is much higher than the investment. Thats how most people see it as well that are in the service. Very few are "hardcore" simmers. I will say though, that the system does create a more "mature" environment, but that has little to do with age and more to do with a beautiful coincidence I think.
As far as the forums. The forums are closed to public because everyone is given their real name... and they've said that is one of the reasons for the privacy of the forums.
As far as going around defending themselves, it's not neccessary. Apple, Microsoft, Chevy, Ford... etc don't go around trying to correct internet forums... and they get plenty of ill-will and mis-information spread about them... it's just not "professional" to get in pissing matches in public forums...
Android, like I said, depending on the implementation of the game... Mention FFB problems with a logi wheel on the iRacing forums and the first thing you will see is "turn off the profiler"
They went above and beyond when it comes to the FFB in iRacing, and it shows in it's use. While you might not get the auto force reduction in the profiler, the game does it for you. Like a real car, the forces are varied depending on how close to center you are... and it's different for each car... The problem with the profiler is that it tries to normalize everything, which is counterproductive when the game simulates the different "feel" of every car. The solstice with power steering is very different from the skippy without it... for example.
They went above and beyond when it comes to the FFB in iRacing, and it shows in it's use. While you might not get the auto force reduction in the profiler, the game does it for you. Like a real car, the forces are varied depending on how close to center you are... and it's different for each car... The problem with the profiler is that it tries to normalize everything, which is counterproductive when the game simulates the different "feel" of every car. The solstice with power steering is very different from the skippy without it... for example.
"Dick in Dixie" - Hank Williams III
Coleus...
While the FF in iRacing is great, you need to get the setup a little right before you really feel it.
First, turn off the profiler. The profiler will hose up your settings, and you will end up with different settings game to game. Since the profiler is a process that has controll of the device, running said process in the background behind a game meants you have a process with limited CPU time trying to run the game. Some games it helps, but games that are developed correctly for FFB, it messes up. iRacing is the latter.
It's funny that you say the Solstice is loose, when most people say it drives like a dumptruck. Usually a loose solstice means you're turning on the brakes... which that car seriously does not like at all. Also, keep in mind the rookie solstice has a very "ugly" setup on it... it's meant to keep the pace down so that the races in the rookie class are tighter, and you don't have people taking off on the field so easily.
I don't get your "races you have content for are hidden" ... they are all listed on the series page the same...
Also, look on the forums for 2 things. 1, good settings for your wheel FFB for iRacing. If you have a G25 or other Logi wheel, that will be easy to find. 2, if you can (depending on OS and wheel, and hardware) set your wheel to be on a different processor / core than your main core... it helps the performance alot...
Lastly... I'm not trying to convince you of anything... as I've said before I know its not for everyone by far. I just want to make sure that people aren't getting the wrong impression for the wrong reason!
While the FF in iRacing is great, you need to get the setup a little right before you really feel it.
First, turn off the profiler. The profiler will hose up your settings, and you will end up with different settings game to game. Since the profiler is a process that has controll of the device, running said process in the background behind a game meants you have a process with limited CPU time trying to run the game. Some games it helps, but games that are developed correctly for FFB, it messes up. iRacing is the latter.
It's funny that you say the Solstice is loose, when most people say it drives like a dumptruck.
Usually a loose solstice means you're turning on the brakes... which that car seriously does not like at all. Also, keep in mind the rookie solstice has a very "ugly" setup on it... it's meant to keep the pace down so that the races in the rookie class are tighter, and you don't have people taking off on the field so easily.I don't get your "races you have content for are hidden" ... they are all listed on the series page the same...
Also, look on the forums for 2 things. 1, good settings for your wheel FFB for iRacing. If you have a G25 or other Logi wheel, that will be easy to find. 2, if you can (depending on OS and wheel, and hardware) set your wheel to be on a different processor / core than your main core... it helps the performance alot...
Lastly... I'm not trying to convince you of anything... as I've said before I know its not for everyone by far. I just want to make sure that people aren't getting the wrong impression for the wrong reason!
Maybe I'll give it another try... If nothing else, the skippy has taught me better car control... even though I still struggle with it... im going to be a road race rookie for a while (and im happy with that... i don't try to fudge the numbers to get my SR up to race cars above my head).
I just tried at first, and I felt wierd saying this: I don't know if it's the force feedback being so much better in iRacing, or the surface of the tracks being so much more detailed, but when I came back to LFS, I didn't feel like the car was "connected" to the road.. if you know what I mean.
THe reason I felt weird thinking that, is I said the same thing about LFS before iRacing in comparison to other sims previous...
I'm not spouting anything. I've said it before, if it's not for you, its not for you....
Don't forget, iRacing was a $20,000,000 investment from the beginning. The "dues" recoup real life costs of continued development, of servers, of staff.
Your "marketing trap" comment sums you up. You have a dislike of the service already, so you aren't going to be too kind to it in your opinions. I didn't fall for a a damned thing. I know what I pay, and I know what I get out of it. I feel that the value in return is higher than the value invested, so it works for me. LFS was the only sim I ran for a LONG time once my nr2k3 serial got lost... and I have nothing but love for LFS, even though i don't play it anymore. I just don't play it because the differences make it difficult to jump back and forth. Add to that the 10 or so people I got on board with me in LFS... most of which went to iRacing with me... and I'm not some zealot.
You're automatically assuming that liking something and praising it is the same as zealotry. If your logic is true, then basing something because you like the competition better just makes you a sad fanboy...
Neither of those are true.
We both just have differing opinions. While I do feel it wrong that you have an opinion of something you haven't used... I'm not going to try to insult you in return.
As for mentioning JH and DK... in a word, yes. It's a busines, not a democracy. They don't have to justify the cost at all. Thats for the user to do. I mentioned them because they are both at the helm, and if they say it isn't going to change, it's not likely going to change.
You seem to have a lot of disdain for iRacing... which is sad. Prejudgment is rarely correct...
Aside from the CTRA server (good job there, i must say), I can't think of more than a handful of races that haven't had a huge T1, or at least L1 wreck.
Also, people try harder I think in iRacing. It's an investment mentality... if you're putting something into the system, you want to get as much out as you can.
Also, while prices may rise/fall a little, the subscription model will never change. That comes from John Henry and Dave Kaemer themselves. Your subscription to the service is as much "dues" to the sanctioning body as it is payment for the game.
Also, people try harder I think in iRacing. It's an investment mentality... if you're putting something into the system, you want to get as much out as you can.
Also, while prices may rise/fall a little, the subscription model will never change. That comes from John Henry and Dave Kaemer themselves. Your subscription to the service is as much "dues" to the sanctioning body as it is payment for the game.
I don't think so.
I don't think it's right to have an opinion on something you know nothing about... hearsay is not a valid basis of opinion...
Here's what I don't get:
If you don't own/race in iRacing, why do you complain/point out weaknesses that you know nothing of. Not everyone that has pointed things out here are this way, but it's clear that some people that are bashing iRacing haven't even raced it.
And if you were to peruse the official iRacing forums, you would find that the shortcomings are discussed en mass. There, though, we have the direct ear of the development team, so it serves a purpose. Complaining/Blasting/Bashing/Whatever here serves no purpose but to taint the image of the sim.
No sim is without it's shortcomings. If iRacing isn't for you, it's not for you. I've been around race sims for a good damned long time now, and iRacing provides a sense of competition that no other sim has ever produced.
This is probably a "radical" view, but to me, the system itself is iRacing, the sim is almost secondary. If you plugged LFS into the same system, it would probably be a close analog to iRacing. As far as the costs... it costs a lot more just to pay fees to race in real life for the most part. When I raced karts, i spent 50 or 60 bucks a month for the privelge of driving my own kart in a sanctioned race...
If you haven't raced in iRacing for more than a few races, be a gentleman and excuse yourself from this thread. Speaking about that which you know nothing of is pointless.
If you don't own/race in iRacing, why do you complain/point out weaknesses that you know nothing of. Not everyone that has pointed things out here are this way, but it's clear that some people that are bashing iRacing haven't even raced it.
And if you were to peruse the official iRacing forums, you would find that the shortcomings are discussed en mass. There, though, we have the direct ear of the development team, so it serves a purpose. Complaining/Blasting/Bashing/Whatever here serves no purpose but to taint the image of the sim.
No sim is without it's shortcomings. If iRacing isn't for you, it's not for you. I've been around race sims for a good damned long time now, and iRacing provides a sense of competition that no other sim has ever produced.
This is probably a "radical" view, but to me, the system itself is iRacing, the sim is almost secondary. If you plugged LFS into the same system, it would probably be a close analog to iRacing. As far as the costs... it costs a lot more just to pay fees to race in real life for the most part. When I raced karts, i spent 50 or 60 bucks a month for the privelge of driving my own kart in a sanctioned race...
If you haven't raced in iRacing for more than a few races, be a gentleman and excuse yourself from this thread. Speaking about that which you know nothing of is pointless.
In the late model... if you're never turning right, you're doing it wrong
That thing is controlled chaos from the apex out
In oval racing, you make your time on exit. You do that by backing of the entry. Easy in, hard off.
What happens to alot of people is this:
- Overdrive the entry
- Need more steering AND you let off the gas and/or get on the brakes and put more weight on the RF
- End up trying to get on the gas at the apex still.
This works fine for a couple of laps... but then you start to really heat up that right front tire... and once you've done that, even a good entry will understeer through the apex... so you continue to overdrive it. Once you start understeering, it's best to coast a few laps. You have the ease up and let the RF cool down, at the cost of losing a little time... but overall its less than you would lose sliding the RF the rest of the race.
Oval = Brake on entry, roll the apex, hard acceleration out. Simple in concept, but hard to do right 100 times in a row...
After a while you will feel the car telling you everything you need to know. You will always want to keep a little understeer at the apex (a little!), and as soon as you feel the car shift toward oversteer, thats when you put the power down. Same for entry... you will feel the weight shift to let you know when to get off of the brakes...
They should be able to. The Craftsman Truck Series doesn't do any road course racing, but other series do. Also, the trucks are essentially the same chassis as the Busch (damnit, "Nationwide"...) cars... the chassis itself is neutral and the wedge is handled in the suspension.
The late models in the game are oval late models. Their are road course late models in real life, but the cars are built different than oval ones. The oval late models have wedge built into the actual chassis as well as the suspension, so you can't take all of it out, which is why you can't turn the thing right at all really...
We should be getting Trucks, NWide and Cup versions of the racers, I would imagine trucks and nwide would be c and b, so most should be able to get into them... I can't wait to try them on some road courses that would never host them in real life... Like sebring, and my ultimate fantasy (I don't know why...) the road course at Daytona...
left foot braking is key in underpowered cars.
It's why Nascar drivers do it on superspeedways with restricted motors...you can keep in the gas and keep the rpms up, but still slow it down a little...
I always did it in gokarts too...since keeping the rpms up high was really important...
Be careful though, you can only do it to a point, too much brake while your in the throttle can turn you around really quick...
It's why Nascar drivers do it on superspeedways with restricted motors...you can keep in the gas and keep the rpms up, but still slow it down a little...
I always did it in gokarts too...since keeping the rpms up high was really important...
Be careful though, you can only do it to a point, too much brake while your in the throttle can turn you around really quick...
I can't downshift in a turn in the solstice, i lose it every time, have to downshift before I start the turn... I can match the rpms up pretty well in the legends cars on the road course...but can't seem to do it in the solstice, and if I go 4th to 3rd in a corner, its almost definite that I will spin out...
The thing that's killing me about the solstice is how much you have to shift into 4th for 2 seconds, and then shift back to third..
If you dont, you bounce off of the limiter and lose some time... so you have to, but it's about annoying as hell.
Ex: after the uphill at limerock, you need to hit 4th on that straight, but only for a second or two, then back to third for the right hander before the downhill.
And at laguna, the fast left-hander before the corkscrew, if you come out of that in 4th, you have no power to get up the hill, but you have to shift to 4th for a couple of seconds before it..
It just seems like 3rd could be shortened a bit, and give 4th a little more pull... and that would be perfect.
...Then again, it does make you learn how to keep momentum up, and thats a great lesson, so maybe it's really good...
If you dont, you bounce off of the limiter and lose some time... so you have to, but it's about annoying as hell.
Ex: after the uphill at limerock, you need to hit 4th on that straight, but only for a second or two, then back to third for the right hander before the downhill.
And at laguna, the fast left-hander before the corkscrew, if you come out of that in 4th, you have no power to get up the hill, but you have to shift to 4th for a couple of seconds before it..
It just seems like 3rd could be shortened a bit, and give 4th a little more pull... and that would be perfect.
...Then again, it does make you learn how to keep momentum up, and thats a great lesson, so maybe it's really good...
So, after asking here (and receiving) for an invite, I got the direct invite from iRacing in my email this morning.
So, anyone else who wants to jump in before the big day, first one to PM me gets it...
And it's worth every penny, to me at least.
Alot of people complain about not being able to race what they want when they want... and well, I like that. It keeps people in their class. It keeps racing a little tighter.
No to mention, it gives the game an overall "goal" that LFS lacks. Aside from specific servers, there is very little in the way of an overall goal to strive for. Having to go well and work your way (through consitently safe driving) up to better classes is an awesome thing... though it can be a little be frustrating.
That solstice drives like a dump truck, but if you can get good in it, then the other stuff is even better...so it's a great learning tool. And the ledgends cars... those are just rediculously fun to drive.
So, anyone else who wants to jump in before the big day, first one to PM me gets it...
And it's worth every penny, to me at least.
Alot of people complain about not being able to race what they want when they want... and well, I like that. It keeps people in their class. It keeps racing a little tighter.
No to mention, it gives the game an overall "goal" that LFS lacks. Aside from specific servers, there is very little in the way of an overall goal to strive for. Having to go well and work your way (through consitently safe driving) up to better classes is an awesome thing... though it can be a little be frustrating.
That solstice drives like a dump truck, but if you can get good in it, then the other stuff is even better...so it's a great learning tool. And the ledgends cars... those are just rediculously fun to drive.
Since we're talking about fan access and not the actual racing, i hope this wont be flamebait.
Regardless of racing itself, this is one of the areas where NASCAR really shines.
Pit passes are cheap, drivers are more than happy to hang out with fans, and access to the garage areas are even pretty open to general public with the right passes...
Not to mention other activities. I don't know about F1 races (would like to go to one to see) but NASCAR races are full weekend events. Infield and near-track lots fill up on fridays, and its just good fun all weekend long (liquid fun, too). I had infiled passes to Daytona in 2000 ... we were playing a game of football in the grass area next to us... Dale Earnhard Jr joined us about halfway through... had a beer and played a little ball.. Best race I've ever been to, and the cars weren't even on track yet...
Regardless of racing itself, this is one of the areas where NASCAR really shines.
Pit passes are cheap, drivers are more than happy to hang out with fans, and access to the garage areas are even pretty open to general public with the right passes...
Not to mention other activities. I don't know about F1 races (would like to go to one to see) but NASCAR races are full weekend events. Infield and near-track lots fill up on fridays, and its just good fun all weekend long (liquid fun, too). I had infiled passes to Daytona in 2000 ... we were playing a game of football in the grass area next to us... Dale Earnhard Jr joined us about halfway through... had a beer and played a little ball.. Best race I've ever been to, and the cars weren't even on track yet...
post retracted... trying to play nice...
...
Basically, I would really like to get in before that date, because I would like to get a good test of it before servers get inevitably hammered on that day/week ...
...
Basically, I would really like to get in before that date, because I would like to get a good test of it before servers get inevitably hammered on that day/week ...
Last edited by rjm1982, .
Ok, so now I'm excited about this...
The price falls into my allowed "play money" range, so I really want to try this thing on for size.
Are they still doing the invites? If so, im going to be "that guy" and beg and plead for one! Anyone?
If not, thats cool, its only 10 days away, but I would love to give it a run this weekend...
The price falls into my allowed "play money" range, so I really want to try this thing on for size.
Are they still doing the invites? If so, im going to be "that guy" and beg and plead for one! Anyone?
If not, thats cool, its only 10 days away, but I would love to give it a run this weekend...
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG