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Judge task for First Stage of Lislon Drift Challenge
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
First Stage is starting today!

Judge task:
- Acceleration from leader according to waiting opponent, respect zone is until blue line. (Distance is more than car body on blue line - restart and one strike for leader)
- Initiation is yellow-blue line marks (Before that small flip without slowing down is allowed)
- Deacceleration zone is red line marks on side of track (Handbrake is allowed, brake is not allowed)
- Outside zone is yellow line marks (Need kill green clip for perfect run)
- Touch and Go is white line marks (Need one wheel in it for correct pass)
- Finish is red line.

ititiation can be done in small flip without slowing down, or cluch kick.
Brake is not allowed.
Handbrake is allowed only in Deacc zone.
False start - restart and one strike for leader (allowed for follower)
Non-compliance respect zone - restart and one strike for leader (Distance is more than car body on initiation is not allowed)

3 Strike in one hit - Disqualification.

Qualification and Pair Runs spreadsheets - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BQEa95JZWRIW8c__VgWK0-ch-L-HLZ3mvlAGSMOf-sM/edit#gid=1608383885
Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, .
Lislon Drift Challenge
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed

Lislon Drift Challenge

Drift Сompetition with Qualification and Pair runs on Single-elimination tournament

Lislon Drift Challenge is a drift competition with an unlimited number of stages in order to identify the strongest drivers on a specific track. The number of judges is 3, in qualification each be responsible for their criterion: Style, Line and Angle. In pair runs, refereeing is carried out by simultaneous (blind) voting, in the chat of each of the referees. (to eliminate the suggestibility / influence factor) in the case of 3 judges. The competition is held in the format of qualification + Pair runs (top 32\16 or top 8)
Events will be held on LSN Drift Ground server.

First Stage

The LSN DRIFT GROUND server is open for training runs

● First Stage Date - 27.02.2021
● Time - 18:00 Moscow time (15:00 UTC)
● Server - LSN DRIFT GROUND
● Password: - lsndrfch1
● Сars - XRT
● Tires - normal / cold
● Judges - RDC Alexey, Maxxis Pakkeji, and some others
● Discord - https://discord.gg/4bRSQtnUje
● Regulations - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dxegRv1yWDXJ463gdCIrLRLVZN72nYX8EPIp-xkyowA/edit
● Server Rules - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dyVm0u_RybF8UekFwcS8xpHeTSaYseBNxvmfFF6Xkxw/edit
Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, .
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Scawen :
It's not possible to make a perfect drift car by changing a few values on a racing car in a flawed tyre physics model. It's not going to happen, because impossible things can't happen.

I don't think there's too much point arguing about 10mm which makes such a tiny difference. I believe people were saying (as I found myself) that the FZR was faster than the XRR. I hoped to improve that with this update, by making such a tiny change to the XRR's tyre width, doing the same at front and rear so as not to affect the car's balance.

I do not see anything wrong with the FZR being faster in drifting than the XRR, this is the variety in cars that we asked for, including the variety of car behavior and car handling, at competitions in lfs you can always make it necessary to participate in intake restriction or ballast for balanced cars. So no problem here.

I have been a fan and a spectator of drift since of 2009, and for this I know about all the details that take place in the real competitions. Yes, there is a car for Formula D and wheels width with 300mm+, but usually they have 1000hp+ so I don't think this is relevant in our discussion. Imao 265 the width of the rear tire is better for XRR, this width is set to the maximum for example in RDS GP competitions who is the organizer and supporter of FIA IDC 2021. In DMEC you can participate too on 265 wheels and 285 max. And those with a 285 wheel usually have 600+ horsepower to effectively drive on it. So I don't see anything wrong with that. But 275 is ok for me too.

But I am pleased with this reaction to the feedback that I see from the Sсawen, thanks for supporting the drift community!
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
And I noticed some looks like bugs, idk it mention before or not, when you switch the configuration from RX\Drift to Default and back, then the active setups gets lost parameters of Steering lock and tire type, lock is going to 24 and tires to slicks.
And , about steering wheel hand animation, its quite broken now on 1080 degrees lock to lock when you have a large steering lock value.
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Everything in drifting is works fine for me now
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Some Drift testing. For me it works nice.

But some time inconvenient to change gears, it would be more convenient to make H-pattern gearbox for RX\Drift configuration.


XRR on Road super tires
FZR on Normal tires on rear
XRR on Normal tires on rear
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
And one more thing, drifters on Pro competitions always make warm up rear and front tires before they make runs, and i mean realy always, for get more grip, and after some driver got straght wheels or spinout you can hear something like "i do not warm up tires whell, becouse of that it happen" Thats mean for drifters, tire heating is important to do if if he doesn't want to get a lack in the grip.

But in LFS drifting it does not work quite like that, in drifting on road cars i do not see a strong difference between cold tires and in the optimum temperature of the tires, but after the tires heat up more than the optimum temperature and the tires start to smoke, the grip drops significantly, which I did not see that would happen in a real drift...
According to my feelings there is a mismatch to real life in this.

Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Scawen :Trying something.

A new 'configuration' called 'RX / DRIFT' that sets the tyres narrower and adds an offset.

With 'RX / DRIFT' selected you can choose the wider range of tyres and extreme steer angle.

Omg is amazing new feature! In fact, it's almost XRD.
But how it will be works? Choosing on Cars menu in Garage or in Setups?
Edit: oh im see it now, sorry.

Quote from Scawen :Some more information about the RX / DRIFT configuration so far.

XR GTR
F 335/30-19 -> 245/45-18
R 335/35-18 -> 275/40-18

FZ50 GTR
F 300/35-18 -> 235/45-18
R 370/30-18 -> 285/40-18

Now looks good for drifting now, but maybe need some testing for checking how it will be working in drifting.

And last point for drifters is make more power for GTRs is like 650-800hp will be nice. I understand that this cannot be done becouse it can be used for hard track racing, but maybe you can make restrictions for configuration RX / DRIFT in racing participation, maybe some prohibited finish or taking off account results or some like that? It will be so great for drifters if yo can do it..
Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, .
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
It is important to note that drift as motorsport discipline allows within of real competitions to participate in cars with different engines, wich castom made modifications and tuning, which have leads to the fact that the participants have different amounts of horsepower and torque, as well as with suspensions kits, chassis selection and etc, and even allow the use of different tire widths up to a certain limit. For example, there are some cases in competitions when rivals in pair runs have a difference of 500 horsepower!

But here it is also worth noting that real Pro competitions already have more power then GTRs in LFS, and than they even have, the some cars power reaches 1000hp and more. And on average it is 700-800hp today. Maybe this should be noted for the future updates. And Im referring to the thread is made a real Pro drifter about the XRD (XR - Professional Drift Version) in Improvement Suggestions forum and i hope to see that in some day.

I would say that in real competitions, the steering lock is depends to the power of the car that you have, in local events where cars have 250-400 hp there is no a strong need to install the wisefab kit and have a large steering angle, 40-45 degrees is enough, if you have 450 or more hp then more and more pilots come to the needing for a large steering angle and install a wisefab kit or some similar suspension kit.

Therefore, i propose to adhere to the same principle in LFS, i as a drifter in LFS do not see a strong need for 60 degrees for XRT and all less powerful RWD cars, 45 is more than enough for me, for example you can make 50 degrees for FZ5, and 55 for RWD GTRs.
And in LFS drifters always or almost always use 0% Parallel steering.
Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, . Reason : some addition
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
I want to remind everyone about this thread, now the Scawen is doing a test patch to make it possible for XRR FZR cars to drift, but I would also like to see full-fledged drift cars like XRD and FZD in the end.
Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, .
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Scawen :NOTE: This is about a quick update of the existing version. Nothing to do with the major changes in the development version.

Drifters have asked for the maximum steering lock to be increased and to allow the full range of tyres, for the XRR and FZR cars. We received a request to allow up to 65 degrees steering angle but it seems a bit much to me. Those two cars have double wishbone suspension so that seems to put a limit on the amount a wheel could turn before part of the wheel hits part of a wishbone with disastrous results. I don't have any real world reference for what maximum lock is achievable by drifters in real life.

Do you have accepted decision about this? Or can it be only for the release of the patch? It's important for us as drift community thats is quite large in LFS, I show a examples of real suspension from Wisefab using by real drifters which steering lock stof more than 60 degrees. But I think in LFS 50 degrees steering angle is enough for XRR and FZR.

XRR and FZR are good in terms of power, tire wide and even body elements thats are comparative to real Pro competitions like Formula Drift, Drift Masters European Championship, or FIA Intercontinental Drifting Cup and becouse of that and without a tire selection, large steering lock there there cant be drifting on XRR and FZR and this is not comparable with real competitions as it happens in the LFS on XRT, FZ5, RAC, and LX6 now.
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Scawen :Drifters have asked for the maximum steering lock to be increased and to allow the full range of tyres, for the XRR and FZR cars. We received a request to allow up to 65 degrees steering angle but it seems a bit much to me. Those two cars have double wishbone suspension so that seems to put a limit on the amount a wheel could turn before part of the wheel hits part of a wishbone with disastrous results. I don't have any real world reference for what maximum lock is achievable by drifters in real life.


It might be a bit unrealistic, allowing such tyres on those cars. The big GTR cars are obviousy not designed for off road use, but if it allows more possibilities for drifting and racing, then it seems like a good thing to allow.

Steering lock being increased a lot, with wide front wheels on double wishbone suspension, might seem to defy reality a bit. But I'm interested to hear what you have to say.

I like the idea of making drift cars out of GTR, like the choice of road or sports tires, increase the Steering lock to at least 50 is already enough in my opinion. Although examples of real suspensions by wisefab show that more can be achieved. And GTR is since the weight, power, and even body elements are similar to how drift cars are involved in reality at Pro competitions, but this does not look like TBO or LRF class as it happens in LFS.

Therefore, it would be correct from the point of view of a motorsport simulator, which is LFS, and drift is recognized by the FIA as motorsport.
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Scawen :

Drifters have asked for the maximum steering lock to be increased and to allow the full range of tyres, for the XRR and FZR cars. We received a request to allow up to 65 degrees steering angle but it seems a bit much to me. Those two cars have double wishbone suspension so that seems to put a limit on the amount a wheel could turn before part of the wheel hits part of a wishbone with disastrous results. I don't have any real world reference for what maximum lock is achievable by drifters in real life.

I know examples of suspensions that allow you to make large steering lock angles, at least 60 degrees is possible.
"Offering over 60 degrees of steering lock, the near zero ackerman Wisefab BMW kit provides more steering angle than you will ever need, without hitting the lower arms like you would on a normal high steering angle BMW set up."

https://www.wisefab.co.uk/wisefab-bmw-e30.html#:~:text=Offering%20over%2060%20degrees%20of,steering%20angle%20BMW%20set%20up.

https://youtu.be/m8IRrcOTFgY?t=93

https://youtu.be/REQEJe5NbxM
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Nice work!
Quote from Scawen : Other track editor improvements.

Is there a chance we'll see the track editor release after this update?
And after the release, how the player-made tracks will be distributed?
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Scawen :
I can't really release them as they are because you can exploit the issues. So I hope to make them a better approximation of reality so that they are fun to drive on and respond in realistic ways to changes in settings. As far as I remember, total grip was actually less but they feel better and more intuitive, so actually more fun to drive. One example, sometimes in the RWD cars, in the old physics, you can put on a little more power and the car seems to follow a wider line, which shouldn't really be the case when you add more longitudinal force to the rear tyres. In reality and in the new system, more power in a RWD car always results in the car taking a bit tighter line. This is because the combination of forces is now done in a way that makes more sense and has a mathematical basis. The public version is more like a made up force combination, adjusted to try to match reality.

Interesting! Waiting for it. But i have three more questions now Uhmm

Will the new tire physics include twisting of side tire? (like on pic)

Will the new tire physics include differences in the metal cords of different types of tire? For example, in a sports tire, a stiffer tire cord is made in the side parts of the tire too, and normal road tires have a harder rubber composition but a weak metal cord. I'm sure this affects on behavior of tires on the track.

We have 4 types of slicks now from hard to soft one, but one type of normal and one sport tires. In my opinion, this is not entirely fair, I think for normal and sports tires it is worth adding tires with different treadwear coefficients. From hard to soft. Hot laps after the patch will be reset anyway. Will it be possible to do this?
Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, . Reason : text mistake
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Scawen :
I have a bit more to do on the graphics, though I want to spend some time on the physics soon.

Nice, but i remember there has problems with merging code of the two LFS builds, how progress is going on now of merging builds with tire physics and graphics, or it is done now?
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from ahromenko :Would be cool to see something like that in future. In my opinion its good idea to did it similar to skins system, like approved mods gonna be uploaded, and then everyone can download it directly from game via simple Mod Browser (Just for example), and when player entering server, client going to download "VOB mods" which used by players on server (like it doing now with Skins).

+1
Wow, good idea, will be nice to see some like that in future
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Scawen :
- Also clear: Developers cannot create clearly identifiable representations of real cars and sell them. Permission is required from the owner of the intellectual property (the design of the car).

For me XRT is clearly identifiable representations of Mitsubishi Starion GX, but that is approved by devs, that means mods like that is okay, but then where is the boundary that determines the difference of "clearly identifiable representations of real cars" to quite a change from the real car?

I can model my own mesh and make mods, but without this clearly understood borderline for everyone, maybe problems will arise here.
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Russian youtube blogger with 2.7 million subs make video about LFS

(in preview is not a facepalm is nostalgia face)

Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
As I understand for Eric only Fern Bay remains, one track in average takes about 2-3 months of working..
I know that developers usually don’t like questions about release dates cuz it can fell through or exceeded the announced time. And i undestand it, but i still have some questions:

1 Of course the main is - can you tell the approximate release date of the test patch? Maybe second quarter of 2020?

2 Will new tire physics be included in the update?

3 Do you have any plan for the next update? (full track editor will be nice Heart )

3 Less important but current sky looks too clean for me, will be some clouds? (Animated Textures? Procedural volumetrics? Particles?) Maybe Volumetric Light Scattering for Sun rays?

4 Since we have updates are being made to the changes of the day, can there also be plans for long-awaited changing the weather? (fog, rain, temperature change of the asphalt?)
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Capitalism is evil yeah yeah, of course. Capitalism have many problems yes, but Copitalism is always opposed to socialism.. When I know what's in my homeland in fact, not so long ago, government bodies could have shot you just because you have the wrong last name, or kill you (kulak) and take your farm and land from your family simply because you didn’t to give it to a public collective farm, or u can get 10 years of Gulag just for juke about Stalin, Denunciations, Сollectivization, Iron Curtain, State propaganda, 2 millions tortured and killed in Gulag, and etc. This is too long a list to all the great advantages of socialism.

I would just propose to not forget that at modern capitalism people have not yet lived better throughout the history of mankind since that they live now. And that in addition to the developed and the least Developed Countries (LDCs), there are developing and LDCs countries that only dream of living like Britain or America. Excuse me, just sometimes it's just funny to hear how capitalism is Evil because someone has depression, or something similar to conspiracy theories "general brainwashing by our monster global civilisation"Looking wtf..

If you want details or a reasoned discussion just write to my pm, but i propose to close the political topic, otherwise it’s possible to get to the propaganda of socialism here, in my opinion this is not what you would like. And the more I do not want to breed political squabble here.
Peace to everyone.Heart
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Looks like Left-Green coming out, and I have nothing to say about the green movement, although there are a lot of their problems and frankly stupid things of individual activists, but I sincerely hope that socialism communism is not considered the best idea for society as the opposite of capitalism, but capitalism also has many problems,it is capitalist societies that offer the best economic growth, a better standard of living and a better level of happiness among the population of all societies in practice, and I live in Russia and believe me, I heard a lot of arguments from the left discourse, 99% of these people are idiots.
Please be prudent, almost all modern left-wing discourse is contradicted by Marx himself, Marx quote: Practice Is the Sole Criterion of Truth.
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
ok then im wrong.
Quote from Eclipsed :The temperature displayed normally in F9 menu is thread temperature and not surface temperature. You can see surface temperature while holding ctrl+shift.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, .
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Racer Y :But ask yourself, "Why do you play LFS?" Most people I see on the forums have been licensed since 2009. That's ten years. Which is a long time in game years. Are there other folks that play other games like this? Besides Total Annihilation and Quake...... Not many.
This particular game is multi-generational as far as my family goes. What about yours? I know a big chunk of y'all are in your early thirties at least. If not older.
My son uses it as a benchmark for other titles. (he does crap for some company called Chromus) And my grand daughter plays a little too. That's three generations of people..... using the same license...... oops. Well you just don't see that that sort of thing with very many titles, regardless of game genre. I think the only other racing game that can claim to have the cult following LFS has is an even older title: Grand Prix Legends. I mean who plays Need for Speed anymore? The other "sims"? Uh remember everyone going off about GTR or something in the S1 days.... Whatever happened to them? Yeah. LFS is more like "The Rocky Horror Show" More than it is a video game, I think.

I think you overestimate LFS, I remember time when online reached 2,000 or 3,000 people, now around 200, maybe even Need for Speed UG2 have more players.. the game is essentially half dead, but it depended heavily on updates and simrace game competitors, and those who lacked graphics, cars and tracks, left in AC, Forza and who lacked physics there are left in irace. Now there no significant updates, therefore are no reasons for players to return. .
Just your scotch.
Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, .
Aleksandr_124rus
S2 licensed
Quote from Gunn :Race Plate Kit @ Master Skinnerz. PSD format. Go to the bottom of this page.

nice page, but not what I was looking for
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